Add me to the list of Andractim failures

[frankcostanza]

Hey guys,

First time poster here...I've been browsing this site with great interest for some time and I'm glad to finally read about others with the same problems.

I've been taking Andractim for about 40 days with disappointing results: My jigglers didn't really get any smaller but they do look slightly tighter and more well sculpted. Has anyone had success after using two tubes?  My second tube is running out and I doubt I'll be re-ordering but I want to see what you all think.

Second question: Since it appears Andractim failed, what would be the next course of action? I'm 31 and have had this frigging condition since I was 12 or 13. For anyone who might now of such things, I have good musculature, a decent beard and otherwise few feminine characteristics except the gyne and limited hair on my torso. Also, I would say I have a moderate case (I'll post pics sometime soon). I've never been to an endocrinologist (indeed never even told any doc about it) but am thinking I will go in a few months. Any other meds that might work in my case as opposed to the highly scary prospect of being sliced open on a surgeon's table?

Sorry for all this blather on my part, but I'm hoping one of you fine gents might be able to point me in the right direction. Thanks!

[hypo]

Andractim has its successes and failures (75% reductions, 25% resolutions from that initial 75% and 25% failure to do anything in controlled medical trials) like most therapies but that is not the point.

The point is you are self medicating the symptom of gynecomastia without having had investigations to try and ascertain the aetiology/cause of its development.

You cannot say/know why it developed and haven't had pathology prior to or post therapy- so you probably have no idea as to why you developed gynecomastia or why Andractim did not succeed- the reason why you are in your current predicament.

The fact is Andractim could fail to work for a variety of reasons and some of them will not relate to the usefulness of the therapy.

This is the whole problem of self medication.

A good endocrinologist that specializes in reproductive issues will try to ascertain the aetiology/cause of the gynecomastia first and then consider treatment options second.  Diagnosis first and treatment second- this is the way of the medical world; any other way of acting is putting the cart before the horse.

Having ascertained the aetiology/cause of gynecomastia or at least in finding that there is no significant factor in its development (idiopathic) an endocrinologist would then be able to look at treatment options meaning; referral for surgery or drug therapies, one of which is Andractim.

Andractim can be part of an endocrinologists armory in the fight against gynecomastia, but as a hormone expert he would choose to use it in cases that warrant its use/be most likely to succeed and follow its effects via pathology.    

Andractim is not and never will be as successful as surgery, but its use in the right hands (an endocrinologists) can still be a very effective treatment for some people.  It will always be very inexpensive in comparison to surgery and more appropriate for people who either cannot or do not wish to incur the costs of surgery or do not or cannot contemplate surgery for a variety of reasons.
 
It may also be a more appropriate first line treatment following pubertal development of gynecomastia than surgery (with 1-2 years of development before gynecomastia becomes fibrous).

Also it will never be an appropriate therapy for those who have pseudo gynecomastia.

At this time surgery remains THE best method of treatment for gynecomastia for most people.  Its long term success rate is 64% according to Merle Yost who runs this site.  

This success rate could be a lot higher and almost certainly would be if all gynecomastia sufferers visited an endocrinologist prior to going ahead with surgery so that underlying conditions could be ruled out or treated.

This makes sense as underlying conditions are a causitive factor in 25% of all gynecomastia sufferers (see prevalence of gynecomastia table in the link below) and something that could often be treated to prevent gynecomastia returning post surgery.

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/acb/annals/annals_pdf/Nov01/596.pdf

[frankcostanza]

Thanks very much for the replies gentlemen...Hypo, you seem to be a veritable font of wisdom on this subject. I wish I had half your knowledge.

I do agree with you about self-medicating ones self. I would never consider it, but for the embarrassment of this condition. So I gave Andractim a go and it didn't pay off, but I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and admit I have gyne to a doctor. I've been living with this secret for almost 20 yrs and find it hard to get those words out! Guess I have to stick ramrods up my jacket, polish my buttons, be proud and just blurt it out eh?

Can anyone out there suggest a good endo in the greater San Francisco area who's affiliated with Kaiser?

Many thanks once again.

[hypo]

frankcostanza,

I dislike self medication but I can really understand the emotional distress that caused you to take such a decision.  I was trying to just 'tell it like it is', but I hope I did not come across as judgmental in doing so.

I have searched for endocrinologists who specialize in reproductive issues that are recommended by the (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) AACE.

I could only find one in the San Francisco area and didn’t know California very well, (I’m from the UK) so I got a state map and did a search and came up with a guy in a place called San Mateo?

looks relatively near you (hard to tell from half way across th eworld looking at a naff map) and I also got all the guys and gals listed in LA, as that might be somewhere you could travel to.

I do not know how this would square with your insurance company and so I leave that to you and other guys who know about that kind of thing.

Obviously this is just a list of endocrinologists as opposed to Plastic Surgeons, but it would be a very good idea to see one of these people first and then get referred on to a Plastic Surgeon.  

I hope this is useful if not- not to worry.


San Francisco

Marcelle Ivonne Cedars, MD
Ucsf Fertility Group, Box 0916
350 Parnassus Ave Ste 300
San Francisco, CA 94117-3617
Directions to OfficeInterest Areas:
   Disease of Pregnancy
   General Endocrinology and Metabolism
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Other
   Osteoporosis
   PCOS

San Mateo

Jack Posnick, MD, FACP, FACE
111 W 3rd Ave Apt 406
San Mateo, CA 94402-7103
Directions to Office
Phone: (650) 579-7676
Interest Areas:
   Diabetes Mellitus
   General Endocrinology and Metabolism
   Pituitary Disorders
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Thyroid Dysfunction
   Other


LA

Ricardo Azziz, MD, MPH, MBA
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center
8700 Beverly Blvd. Suite 3611
Los Angeles, CA 90048
Directions to Office
Phone: (310) 423-9964
Interest Areas:
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Other
   PCOS

Olga M. Calof, MD
Drew University of Medicine and Sciences
1731 East 120th Street AFH 3069
Los Angeles, CA 90059
Directions to Office
Phone: 323-563-5974
Interest Areas:
   Diabetes Mellitus
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Thyroid Dysfunction
   PCOS

Diana M. Echeverry-Franck, MD
Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science
1731 E. 120th Clinical Trials Unit
Los Angeles, CA 90059
Directions to Office
Phone: (323) 357-3631

Visit Dr. Echeverry-Franck at AACEHost
Interest Areas:
   Thyroid Dysfunction
   Osteoporosis
   Diabetes Mellitus
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Adrenal Disorders
   Pituitary Disorders
   Disease of Pregnancy

Mariola L. Ficinski, MD
1245 Wilshire Blvd Ste 804
Los Angeles, CA 90017-4807
Directions to Office
Phone: (213) 250-5255
Interest Areas:
   Diabetes Mellitus
   General Endocrinology and Metabolism
   Pituitary Disorders
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Thyroid Dysfunction
   Other

Mark Omid Goodarzi, MD
200 Ucla Medical Plaza, Ste. 530
Los Angeles, CA 90095-7065
Directions to Office
Phone: (310) 825-7922
Interest Areas:
   Thyroid Dysfunction
   Diabetes Mellitus
   Other
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   PCOS

Dorothy S. Martinez, MD
Ucla
200 Med Plaza Ste. 530
Los Angeles, CA 90095-0001
Directions to Office
Phone: (310) 825-7922
Interest Areas:
   Diabetes Mellitus
   Metabolic Bone Disorders
   Nutrition
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Thyroid Dysfunction

Jorge Hector Mestman, MD
1510 San Pablo St # 322
Los Angeles, CA 90033
Directions to Office
Phone: (323) 442-6179
Interest Areas:
   Diabetes Mellitus
   General Endocrinology and Metabolism
   Reproductive Endocrinology

Reza Nazemi, MD
10660 Wilshire Blvd. #1403
Los Angeles, CA 90024
Directions to Office
Phone: (310) 475-5442
Interest Areas:
   Diabetes Mellitus
   Pituitary Disorders
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Thyroid Dysfunction

Archana Reddy Sadhu, MD
200 Medical Plaza #530
Los Angeles, CA 90024
Directions to Office
Phone: (310) 825-7922
Interest Areas:
   Adrenal Disorders
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Thyroid Dysfunction

Behrouz Salehian, MD
Charles R. Drew Univ.
1731 E 120th St. Div. Of Endocrinology
Los Angeles, CA 90059
Directions to Office
Phone: (310) 668-6057
Interest Areas:
   Diabetes Mellitus
   Metabolic Bone Disorders
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Other

Bo Y. Suh, MD, FACE
2727 W Olympic Blvd Ste 205
Los Angeles, CA 90006-2640
Directions to Office
Phone: (213) 381-6611
Interest Areas:
   Neurosurgery
   Reproductive Endocrinology
   Other
   Pituitary Disorders
   Osteoporosis

[Gine2D]

To any you guys in the UK,

Can you tell me how much testosterone is in Andractim?

I see it avertised as Testosterone for sale without a prescription, but have not seen the T levels that it supposed to have.

In the states Testosterone can not be sold without a prescription if it is strong enough to have any effect.  

Some Scam companies here will put  a minute amount in a product the advertise that it contains testosterone.  They are a waste of money.

What is the law in the UK about selling testosterone without a prescription?  

Does it have to contain a percentage or amount of testosterone per gram or just a minute amount?

[hypo]

It does not contain any testosterone.

The people who are selling it do not understand what it is!!! and selling it without a prescription is irresponsible.

It is however not a scam; miss-labeling and irresponsible yes, but not a scam.  The people who sell it are not in the UK as far as I am aware.

Andractim;

It contains 2.5mg of the potent male androgen diydrotestosterone in a 125mg compound and is a treatment for gynecomastia and an alternative treatment for hypogonadism.

It cannot convert to any estrogen whatsoever as it is a non aromatizable androgen.

It suits some people as a treatment for hypogonadism but not others- it is more commonly used in Europe and in older men for this use.

It makes some men feel tired because it doesn't have the stamina related effects associated with testosterone, but it often improves sexual function and libido and cannot cause gynecomastia.

It is not a Mickey mouse treatment- it is produced by Bensin International pharmaceutical company and went through rigorous trials and as such was passed by European regulations.

It is most commonly used in mainland Europe- very commonly by endocrinologists in Switzerland for instance.

P.S

Your concern regarding its use is understandable and correct.

[Gine2D]

Thanks Hypo for the reply.

All I ever see is they sell it as testosterone, but it really has no testosterone.  
NICE, not really illegal, just taking money under false advertising.    We call that a Scam.

[hypo]

But Gine2d,

It isn't a scam:(

A scam is misrepresenting the facts in order to gain reward- monetary or otherwise.

They are not doing this, because Andractim contains dihydrotestosterone it is a better treatment for gynecomastia than testosterone as it cannot aromatize into estrogens and it is also a legitimate treatment for hypogonadism.

That said I am not defending them for a minute- just the therapy.

What they are guilty of, is not knowing exactly what they are talking about and giving it to anyone, which is plain wrong.

Every time you put your TRT on, testosterone being a prohormone converts to dihydrotestosterone (a metabolite of testosterone) as well as estradiol.

You should read up a little on dihydrotestosterone.