Found a possible cure!

[Its Gone!]

O.K yeh yeh I can feel your sceptiscism already...

But anyway I created this account to say my piece so here it is:

Firstly i'm an old long time user of this board, (login long since forgotten my log-on) I had 2 gyne surgeries first was unsuccessful, they barely removed any of it. The second was well... 'extreme' is probably the best way to describe it. They excised the glands then literally removed every last drop of fat from my chest through very aggressive lipo. It was to say the least, quite an extreme surgery! And after healing looked amazing.

I should quickly say and be fully honest, it was self induced. I like going to the gym... let's put it that way.

Anyway on previous occasions at getting gyne i used tamoxifen / nolvadex a few others like proviron and the gel you rub into your chest and they did absolutely nothing for me. I was a long time preacher on this board that surgery was the only solution and I was very sceptical of any medical treatments.

After my last surgery (which I was over the moon about) I just felt after much consideration, because every shred of noticeable gyne and fat had gone, (Brad Pitt - fight club type chest look believe it or not) I couldn't see it coming back. Even the PS said it was virtually impossible to ever return. He really went to town on me, the surgery was very aggressive.

So a few years later I took up my old 'gym habits' thinking it would be o.k, but low and behold the gyne returned!

I did my research and I found the days of tamoxifen seem to be rather obsolete, and besides I knew from the past it never worked for me. I did however come across an interesting drug called Letrozole. Supposedly massively more powerful than tamoxifen and works in a very different way. You guys may be well aware of it. I don't know i've been out of the gynecomastia.org scene for so long.

Well anyway to cut a long story short the Letrozole nuked my gyne! It totally eradicated the reasonably new growth, 3 or 4 months old by the time I got round to taking it, and I just thought i'd share my experience with you.

From what I can gather it's quite a new drug and extremely powerful and really only used in women with advanced breast cancer, so I doubt your chances of being able to get hold of it from your Dr's are very slim.

Anyway I didn't come here for a lecture, so please don't give me any 'your an idiot' type responses for using anabolics. But I did think it was worthy of a mention in here, so here I am.

Before anyone gets their hopes up too high, as powerful as this drug is and I believe I heard it say somewhere it's several hundred times more powerful than tamoxifen / nolvadex, it's still unlikely to work if you've had the condition for a long time and it's calcified glandular. Mine latest case was purely glandular, but I guess it hadn't quite got around to being... what's the correct word calcified? Anyway you know what I mean.

I should warn you though this is an extremely powerful drug and I think any long term side effects may as yet be unknown, so buyer beware. Although my research didn't come up with anything obviously dangerous if used sensibly and for a short term.

I used 2.5mg per day. Many bodybuilders looking to 'prevent' gyne from happening seem to use far less, but once it's there, 2.5mg a day seems to be the necessary dose to eradicate it.

I will warn you the brand name for it 'Femara' is incredibly expensive. But i'm aware of 2 sites that sell a generic unbranded version in liquid rather than tablet form. Thats what I used and it worked a treat.

Dont start straight away on 2.5mg. It's incredibly powerful and as your body isn't used to it your likely to feel unwell. I built up my dose over 7 days before I reached that level then held it there for about 3 weeks although the puffy nips were going within about 10 days to 2 weeks.

I have no idea what the long term side effects of this drug are. I suggest if your considering using it your an adult and you can work that one out for your self. I'm just here to share my experience.

I bought it, LiquiFem - Femera (Letrozole) from:
http://www.ag-guys.com/store/product.php?productid=16138&cat=248

The price at $50 US seemed incredibly cheap compared to the brand name Femara tablets. Although I will warn you, they stung me on the shipping costs. I think the shipping to the UK was just over $50 which is scandalous. But still that works out at about 60 quid still in total and the gyne is gone. So i'm happy!

There is another site I found subsequently:
http://www.ar-r.com/
They sell a product that seems to be pretty much the same thing. I can't say much about it as i've never used it, but in the interests of fairness I thought i'd share what I have found out with you and let you make your own decisions. Perhaps their shipping costs if your in the UK are more reasonable? I don't know I found it after placing my original order, and frankly I don't really care. 60 quid is 60 quid.

Anyway that's all,

I'm taking some time out of my hectic schedule for posting this info and I don't have anything to gain from this so please don't bother 'flaming' me etc.

Best of luck (and no i will never touch anabolics again)

pokerlopher

[gynogone]

When you take anabolics, you're supposed to take novaldex or something else to block estrogen's effects post cycle.  post cycle recovery.

Anyway, femara or whatever is an anti-aromatase, which means it blocks estrogen from even being made by blocking the aromatase enzyme.  (see me act like i know all about it, haa).  Dangerous to self medicate though.  Estrogen is needed for a ton of things.

You're right though, it would probably work on incipient gyno but not very old gyno. 

[Hypo-is-here]

If you start reading too much into what someone says when they have had multiple gynecomastia development and surgeries because of continuing with AAS use then you are mad as a March hare.

Picture the scene;

Take AAS...Oh no gyne...surgery Yea back to normal....Take AAS...Oh no gyne...surgery Yea back to normal...Take AAS...Oh no gyne...surgery Yea back to normal...Take AAS...Oh no gyne...surgery Yea back to normal..Take AAS...Oh no gyne...surgery Yea back to normal...Take AAS...Oh no gyne...surgery Yea back to normal....round and round you go!!

The FACT is this drug is not x number of times more powerful than Tamoxifen it is just a different drug with a different chemical make-up and use.  This is an AAS user who didn't even know what PCT was.  He has struck lucky if you believe him in getting rid of his gynecomastia on ONE occasion but he has developed it on MORE than one occasion and had multiple sugeries.  Letrozole is an aromatase inhibitor like Anastrozole otherwise known as Arimidex as opposed to a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) like Tamoxifen, Clomiphene Citrate or Raloxifene.  It inhibits estrogen production rather than blocking its action at the receptor sites like the latter medications.....He didn't even have a clue about what type of drug he was using or how it differed from what he used in the past.

He will probably develop and not get rid of gynecomastia next time and will probably require surgery yet again..

Also what Its Gone! also doesn't realise is;

A) Reduce estradiol too much and you can throw your thyroid function out
B) Reduce estradiol too much and it can cause erectile dysfunction
C) Reduce estradiol too much and it can wreck your libido
D) Reduce estradiol too much and it often results in serious fatigue
E) Reduce estradiol too much and it often results in painful bone problems
G) Some people see a rebound effect on both SERM and aromatase inhibitors and this effect can see gynecomastia return when medication is removed.


H) High estradiol is NOT the only cause of gynecomastia and reducing it will probably do nothing for those who have a different underlying cause.  In particular it is not likely to do much for those with long term underlying problems as this self medication is of a short term nature.  Apart from not treating what the underlying cause maybe, it can also hinder an endocrinologist from diagnosing and treating serious underlying conditions.

If it is taken long term apart from all the above problems it can also cause serious bone loss and osteoporosis.

There is nothing wrong with this medication in the right expert/specialist hands.  It has its appropriate uses when correctly supervised in a clinicla setting.


What is wrong is self medicating an endocrine system that almost all people no little to nothing about.  The people that usually get into the most trouble in this regard are bodybuilders who let their ego get the better of them and think they know it all because they have looked at some forums and read a bit about what supposed bodybuilder experts have to say.  The FACT is genetics have a significant role to play in all this and so does the delicate balance of the endocrine system where hormones are very much inter-dependent and act in symphony with one another. 

You mess around with your own endocrine system at your peril- you can quite easily create a cascade of effects that can be impinge on your health.....

I bet this guy doesn't even get pathology and wouldn't know what to test for or look at in any event.

Anyone who relies on this original post is a fool because it is abundantly obvious he doesn’t have the first idea about what he is doing to his body, something his history of surgeries attests to.


Its Gone! you said you didn't come here for a lecture- but saying that doesn't mean you can post anything you like and you have a get out of jail free card.  I am not moralising here I have made my comments based on the facts/reality and what was said needed to be said.  You're a walking gynecomastia disaster and NOT someone that anyone should be listening to for advice or information (sorry).









 








 






 that too much estrogen is ONLY one cause of gynecomastia,

[Grandpa Bambu]

Well said Hypo! 

GB

[Grandpa Bambu]

Well anyway to cut a long story short the Letrozole nuked my gyne! It totally eradicated the reasonably new growth, 3 or 4 months old by the time I got round to taking it, and I just thought i'd share my experience with you.

Did you take any pics to document your experiences?

GB

[Its Gone!]

Talk about getting on your high horse.

Actually I was aware of how tamoxifen works when I used AS. Basically it binds to the estrogen receptors and fills them with a far milder type of estrogen than the body gets through aromatize. Unfortunately this 'milder' form of estrogen wasn't quite mild enough for my system... Although most AS users find they can use it quite effectively.

We should be careful we don't lump all steroids into the same 'box'. They all work in different ways and have different actions on the body. Some are well known for causing gyne, some seem to be far safer than a lot of the health food shop pro-hormones anyone any age can walk into a store and buy.

I have had full pathology work carried out twice actually, it was a neccessity to having the surgery. The cause came back as ideopathic both times with the endocrinologists strong inclination towards the aromatise enzyme due from AS use being the cause. Therefore I knew I had no underlying problems such as kinfelters etc causing the condition.

In my latest use of AS I used an anabolic called Trenbolone. I think it's important to mention this because I don't hold much value in conjecture. I think hard facts are of more value. Whilst Trenbolone is a very powerful AS it dosent aromatise (convert) to estrogen. It does however bind to the progesterone receptor and progesterone seems to be a cause for some of gyne:

http://www.steroid.com/Trenbolone-Acetate.php

After the gyne disapeared i very very slowly reduced the dosage of Letrozole to minimise the rebound effects, and so far this seems to have been very successful.

I understand your apprehension for self medication, I largely agree with it. But lets stick to facts not conjecture.

I think we should share experiences, I was simply sharing mine. It's an easy argument to win to say 'go to an endocrinologist' and let them decide. That sounds far more sensible on paper, the reality though is I wonder how many endo's would be willing to prescribe Letrozole for men when all the research has been carried out on women with breast cancer. As positive as the results have been I think it's a little naieve to believe many endo's would prescribe a new 'womens' breast cancer drug for men, just to treat what they view as a minor cosmetic problem.

I dont think I have anything further to add, so feel free to take some more cheap shots at me.

[GodWasAngry]

I'm not sure what's going on cause its alot to read so Hypo, reply to his post and just tell us if we should go buy whatever he's talkin' about. 

[Its Gone!]

I'm not sure what's going on cause its alot to read so Hypo, reply to his post and just tell us if we should go buy whatever he's talkin' about. 

I'll answer that for you. 

No. No. No.

If your unable to at least understand this post. Not to mention go away and do your own medical journal research on the topic, have a frank talk with your Dr on the subject of Letrozole, get full bloods taken to determine any underlying cause then you'd be a bloody idiot to take it.

[Paa_Paw]

The man who medicates himself knows two fools. One is his doctor, the other is his patient.

[Its Gone!]

The man who medicates himself knows two fools. One is his doctor, the other is his patient.

So when you have a headache do you go to the Dr to get a prescription for some paracetamol?

When you have a cough do you have your respiratory system checked and full chest X-Rays, or do you just take some cough syrup?

When you have a nasty cold do you just lie up in bed with some flu remedies or do you call 911 and get yourself a Dr's prescription?

Now the point im making is this. If your gyne is new, caused by elevated estrogen levels, and you still have a chance to reverse it do you take an anti-estrogen medicine... Or do you not?

Society dictates if you have a headache then no problem take some paracetamol, no need to understand the mechanism behind how it works on your system, just pop 2 pills every few hours. However, if your a male with gyne, society dictates you do nothing about it until it's too late and live in shame with it for years.

There's a billion different medicines on the market, many considered perfectly acceptable for use without understanding or prescription. Why make such a fuss about Letrozole? All the studies so far point to it increasing testosterone, massively reducing estrogen with side effects minimal with short term use.

[Mr_Nip]

It's foolish to trivialize gyne as no more complex than a common cold, cough, or headache.  I believe that most men here have better sense than that.   

[KCbro]

I feel ya bro….

It is kind of funny but while researching a cure for my pubescent gyno I came across AAS. Though I started with the Letro and Nolva I eventually stepped to the dark side. Though I was not able to cure my puffy nipples, I have successfully used AAS over the past 3 years without it getting worse. Like many who work out I do think it has become more prominent as the pec has grown.

I have surgery scheduled for the week after the JR. National’s in June. I will not need any lipo just need to have some gland cut out.

I will absolutely continue AAS. As you have found out it is possible to inhibit re-growth with the use of the proper Anti E’s.. I actually run Letro throughout my entire cycles.

My 2ml,

KCbro

Talk about getting on your high horse.

Actually I was aware of how tamoxifen works when I used AS. Basically it binds to the estrogen receptors and fills them with a far milder type of estrogen than the body gets through aromatize. Unfortunately this 'milder' form of estrogen wasn't quite mild enough for my system... Although most AS users find they can use it quite effectively.

We should be careful we don't lump all steroids into the same 'box'. They all work in different ways and have different actions on the body. Some are well known for causing gyne, some seem to be far safer than a lot of the health food shop pro-hormones anyone any age can walk into a store and buy.

I have had full pathology work carried out twice actually, it was a neccessity to having the surgery. The cause came back as ideopathic both times with the endocrinologists strong inclination towards the aromatise enzyme due from AS use being the cause. Therefore I knew I had no underlying problems such as kinfelters etc causing the condition.

In my latest use of AS I used an anabolic called Trenbolone. I think it's important to mention this because I don't hold much value in conjecture. I think hard facts are of more value. Whilst Trenbolone is a very powerful AS it dosent aromatise (convert) to estrogen. It does however bind to the progesterone receptor and progesterone seems to be a cause for some of gyne:

http://www.steroid.com/Trenbolone-Acetate.php

After the gyne disapeared i very very slowly reduced the dosage of Letrozole to minimise the rebound effects, and so far this seems to have been very successful.

I understand your apprehension for self medication, I largely agree with it. But lets stick to facts not conjecture.

I think we should share experiences, I was simply sharing mine. It's an easy argument to win to say 'go to an endocrinologist' and let them decide. That sounds far more sensible on paper, the reality though is I wonder how many endo's would be willing to prescribe Letrozole for men when all the research has been carried out on women with breast cancer. As positive as the results have been I think it's a little naieve to believe many endo's would prescribe a new 'womens' breast cancer drug for men, just to treat what they view as a minor cosmetic problem.

I dont think I have anything further to add, so feel free to take some more cheap shots at me.

[Its Gone!]

It's foolish to trivialize gyne as no more complex than a common cold, cough, or headache.  I believe that most men here have better sense than that.   

That wasn't exactly my point.

As far as the majority of gyne sufferers are concerned it's an awful debilating condition. For myself also previously.

However, the problem is it's the Dr's who trivialise it. The reasons being many, and are mainly the fact that 60% of men have it to some degree. It's benign and non life threatening. It dosen't impact upon health or the immune system so they see it as a minor condition of little medical importance.

The reality however is far different. Stress is one of the biggest killers in this world. Excess stress leads to all sorts of problems and what Dr's don't realise is that gyne causes it's sufferers enormous amounts of stress often for many years, or even in some unfortunate cases a lifetime.

That's not even to mention the effects it has on men's confidence, personality, posture or not taking part in healthy activities such as exercise.

My point was really this. There are thousands of medicines out there on the market. Many to treat minor medical conditions. I see gyne as a very serious medical condition due to the stress it on average causes it's sufferers. Dr's don't understand this. Maybe in another 20 years they will, but right now they don't.

Now let's get to the nitty gritty. Unless your one of the very few who suffer from some serious ailment that's causing your gyne like hypogonadism, liver cancer, AIDS etc. The enormous percentage of sufferers aquire it from a temporary state of hormonal imbalance where the estrogen levels rise a little too high and they stimulate the glands we males have in our chests that usually lie dormant.

The solutions therefore are either wait and see if it goes away (crap). Get surgery (necessary if you've had it for some time - usually over 12 months). Or take one of the new generation of medicines that virtually wipe out the estrogen levels in your body.

So really there's 2 drug options. Arimedex (good at preventing gyne from occuring or worsening). Or Letrozole (great at nuking newly aquired cases of glandular gyne. Or old cases or pseudo (fatty gyne) if you exercise with it.

No it's not great to take. Letrozole isn't going to do your health any favours, but as long as you dont take it for more than 30 to 60 days at a dose no higher than 2.5mg's at it's peak your really unlikely to do yourself much harm. Probably far less harm in fact than you will cause yourself by living with the stress of gyne.

start with a really low dose 0.5mg per day, build that up to 2.5mg per day by day 7. Keep the dose at 2.5mg and by day 14 - 21 your gyne should be gone. You then gradually reduce the dose over a period of around 14 days to allow your hormone levels to re-adjust nice and gently.

It's as simple as that. Your very unlikely to get a prescription for it from your Dr, they will probably have to look it up in their medical book then say 'huh? That's a new drug for women with breast cancer, are you crazy? Go away you look fine anyway. Fortunately you don't need a prescription to buy it online.

Your body, your choice.

If in doubt research it. You really don't need to take my word for it. There's a little thing called 'google, and some grey matter in your skull. They can often go together quite well 

[atu72956]

This makes me sick. I've noticed that when someone has something good to say about an experience that they've had.  There are several that like to tear them down....there's always several.  I've been going over this board for more than a year now and so many of you are just cruel.  When I look for good posts, I look for professional ones, with references and experiences cited.  The author/originator of this post has done that and i'm here to tell you, he was right.  Do I dare share my experiences? I don't think so....not here.

[headheldhigh01]

i assume all your hair hasn't fallen out yet