Guys, I Need Your Take on This

[Booby_Prize]

Hello, guys. I need some serious advice and hope that you guys can help me.

I developed gynecomastia from finasteride use. I stopped at the end of Dec. '04. After stopping the gyno never went away.

I don't have health insurance, so I went to a GP that uses a sliding scale fee. He would not prescribe tamoxifen because it is not FDA approved specificlly for gynecomastia.

At that point I decided to take matters into my own hands. I ordered some tamoxifen online. I started taking 10 mg a day for about a month or so. I noticed some improvement but no complete recovery. I then decided to stop the drug because of a persistent sore throat.

All was well until I developed an ulcer. My doc prescribed Asiphex. It made me feel much better but—you guessed it, the gyno came back, this time with greatly increased body fat to boot. I halted the use of the drug immediately, much to my doctor's dismay. He seems to think that the symptoms will come back because I had only been taking the drug for 2 weeks.

In a post-panic I decided to order some more tamox, but this time take 20 mg twice daily as Johns Hopkins recommends on their Web site. However, I'm worried about my ulcer coming back. I think it may have been caused by the tamoxifen since I tested negative for h. pylori bacteria. I also have had a sore throat since I restarted tamox. I've read that you should report a sore throat to you doctor immediately so I'm worried, plus some of the listed sides (stroke, thromboembloic events) scare the crap out of me.

What should I do?

[aux513s]

If I was in your situation I would find a way to go to
an endocrinologist. I would also tell your doctor about your self-medication with tamoxifen.

You're in a bad spot. I'm pretty sure the tamoxifen has interfered with your thyroids somehow. There's no telling what other problems may heve been caused.

[hypo]

Finasteride has been known to cause hypogonadism in some men and this often results in gynecomastia.

http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/  

Below is what Eugene Shippen, one of the worlds leading experts on hypogonadism has to say about propecia and Proscar.    
   
Finisteride (propecia-Proscar)    
From: Eugene Shippen, M. D.    
Date: 5/15/01    
Time: 3:42:23 PM    
Remote Name: 152.163.195.186    
   
   
Comments    
I have become aware of a growing number of young men who started to take propecia for male pattern baldness. After relatively short intervals these men develop full symptoms of hypogonadism: decreased libido, sexual dysfunction, ED, fatigue, gynecomastia and depression. Testing shows low T and DHT, high E2, low or normal FSH/LH and normal prolactin. What is really troubling is the lack of response to T replacement, clomiphene stimulation, HCG injections. There may be significant increase in T after various methods of increasing it, but the response in all areas seems to be lacking entirely! If anyone has patients with these complaints after finisteride, please let me know as I am collecting case histories of this serious, though uncommon problem. Also, anyone who has had success with treatment, let me know at: ershippen@aol.com.  

You need to find out if there is a problem with your hormones as a result of finasteride as opposed to trying to self medicate with Tamoxifen.

Tamoxifen can cause problems with thyroid function if estradiol's effects are lowered too much; an indication of this is sometimes a sore throat.

Again another indication that you need to have your hormonal health looked at by an expert.

Tamoxifen lowers estrogen's effects, but it is not very unlikely to be an adequate answer to your problem if it is not due to excess estrogen but a lowered androgen status.

You need to see an endocrinologist and you need to get at least the following tested.

LH
Serum Testosterone + SHBG or Free Testosterone
Estradiol
Prolactin
TSH, Free T4 and T3
Dihydrotestosterone


If you let me know where you live I will try and get you the contact details of good endocrinologists in your area that might be able to help.


Modified- just seen the post from aux having just posted- he is spot on.

[Booby_Prize]

The only thing is that I don't have insurance and can't afford to see an endo.

Meanwhile, I'm still having trouble with this damn ulcer. Does anyone know of any meds that are less likely to cause gyno? It seems almost all of them do.

What about DIM or 6-0X0? I've read some interesting thing about them.

[aux513s]

You need to find a way to see an endo. Your life could be on the line here. If I was in your situation I might even consider robbing a bank to get the money.

When you were taking tamoxifen did it really help a lot with gyno? I mean was the reduction clearly noticable?

[Paa_Paw]

I recall reading somewhere that 200 or more medications had been identified as having Gynecomastia as a side effect.  Though since I can't recall the exact source, I can't swear whether this is a scientific finding or merely a supposition.

Hypo?  

[Booby_Prize]

When you were taking tamoxifen did it really help a lot with gyno? I mean was the reduction clearly noticable?

Yes. When taking 20 mg twice daily as recommended by Johns Hopkins, it did. But I abruptly quit after having a persistent sore throat. It feels like it's growing outward again.

[theweeninjaguy]

normal nolvadex protocol is:

60mg day 1
40mg untill your  symptoms subside
20mg for 10 days
10mg for 10 days

some people do not react well to nolvadex, in these cases clomid is normally used as its' a far weaker oestrogen blocker.

clomid however has worse side effects - it can cause funky visual tracers and double vision. it should not be used over long periods of time (more than 6 weeks) and in my experience should be taken at night time to avoid visual sides.

ninja

[hypo]

Can you tell me how a Nolvadex Protocol relates to problems caused by finasteride use?

Ninja can you tell me what the problems of finasteride use are?

[Paa_Paw]

Let me get this straight,

You do not have money enough to see an Endo,  so you are experimenting with your reproductive hormones in the absence of competent medical supervision.

Forgive me for seeming calous and undiplomatic, but you really need to re-think your priorities.

[theweeninjaguy]

Can you tell me how a Nolvadex Protocol relates to problems caused by finasteride use?

Ninja can you tell me what the problems of finasteride use are?

Side effects that i know of are:

breast enlargement or tenderness

skin rash

sexual difficulties (less sexual desire or ability to get an erection)

small amount of semen released during sex

nolvadex would be of help because it would help rebalance the testosterone/oestrogen output or effect. at the moment this dude has more female hormone than male which is why gyno and floppy male thingy are associated with this drug. nolv will not help with floppy male thingy - proviron would be needed for this but it will help with hte problem at hand

any time you want to appoligise will be fine.....

and if nolvadex wouldn't help - please explain why in his initial post he notes that there was some improvement even at 10mg ed which is an extremely low dose for combating gyno. ? you clown!

ninja

[Booby_Prize]

Anyways, taking 6-OXO now for a week. Haven't noticed anything yet. That's some expensive shit.