I get it

[rrr]

The categories I have seen here:

Health Issues

Hammer, Alchemist and any others. I get it when a person has multiple serious issues. Gynecomastia is not a health issue (which is why treatment is usually not covered by insurance), and I understand how it can be relegated to irrelevance.

Appearance Issues

For the guys here who work out for the purpose of appearance, I get it. If you are going to put in the required time and effort to achieve your desired appearance, even the slightest imperfection would be unacceptable. I personally don't understand the varying levels of narcissism that drives certain people to value appearance so highly, but I do get the gynecomastia issue in these cases.

Questionable Appearance

I have seen many cases (here and surgery before and afters) that I don't get. Guys with gynecomastia that nobody would ever notice, or just have a bit of moobage from being too heavy. I suppose I can look at it as pseudo-narcissism, but I still don't get it.

Miscellaneous

The there are folks like myself. I don't fit into any of the above categories, and I know there are others like me. I currently don't have other serious health issues, I am far from being a narcissist, and I couldn't have cared less when I just had puffy nipples. With gynecomastia being my only "health" issue, it's hard to put it on the back burner. Because it's the only issue, it's my #1 through #10 issue, so I think some of the folks here don't understand that - it's like we're on different planets.

I have also seen posted here that like 50% of men have gynecomastia, and maybe they do, but if so, I would say 95% of them must have category 3 above - nobody would notice. I have been actively looking for months now and have not seen a single case on a normal weight guy.

No real point here, just venting my thoughts....

B

[hammer]

Bummed, when I was in my early 20's station on a ship as a one of the ships divers among the regular job that I was trained to do for the Navy, I was so well in shape my shipmates always said "petty officer ski could probably take on any 4-6 guys", and they were right back then, with the training that I had!

They use to also say, when I was coming back from the shower "hey petty officer ski, can you put a towel around your top too, you make us all miss are old ladies"! This was because I had big boobs! I had no idea that it was called gynecomastia, but didn't care either, and didn't let the BS the guys give me bother me, it was all in fun.

That was the late 70's early 80's, maybe things are different now days, maybe not, but I don't see why guys are getting all worked up over things now days! It not just here, but other places too.

Life has never been peaches and cream, nor is it fair, but we make the best of we got to work with, we support one another, and best of all trust in God!

I've have always tried to be a practical kind of person. If it don't float, don't try to use it as a boat!

[Alchemist]

Hi Bummed,

Let's look at the variances in a very different way.  For starters, Sheldon, many years ago categorized bodies in 3 main categories.

There were the thin and flat as a board (men), the ectomorph.  Then there are the much feared and hated endomorphs who tend to be pear shaped and overweight.  Then there are the mesomorphs, the folks with large chest and shoulders and narrow waist and hips.  Mesomorphs especially and endomorphs tend to have not at all flat chests.  I'm an extreme mesomorph.  I wear a 54 suit jacket and 36-38 pants at the moment and 34 is absolute skin and bones.  I almost have to wear suspenders to keep my pants from sliding down my hips.  "Normal" is a 6 inch difference between jacket and waist. 

So the ectomorph has no muscle shape, and if they have a little subcutaneous fat and if it builds up, it builds up flat.  Put some muscle under it then put on subcutaneous fat and suddenly one has gained a cup or more in size.  Then if the breast tissue grows at any time for any reason one has more nipple and/or more breast tissue.

So you look at a whole lot of men in the skin, 75% or more have shape and appearance of a breast in a measurable amount (cup sizes) and yet many have virtually no breast tissue.   

So clearly you belong to the ectomorph (no ectoplasm though)group with flat as a board chest in the first place and you fear fat more than small breasts.  Since most people can influence their weight and their muscles it is something that can be controlled. 

Breast growth can't normally be controlled that anybody knows of.  Sometimes as a person ages a little something changes and they grow breasts a little.  Sometimes it is medical, often it isn't.

According to Sheldon, ectomorphs have cerebratonia as the mental characteristic.  Basically he says they worry more about more things.

A sizable percentage of guys, of any build, who have pubertal onset of gyne that doesn't go away appear to have what I considered, from my own experience, to be a response that might be called a combination of PTSD and body dysmorphic disorder with malignant body shame, at least concerning their breasts. It is a very tortured place to be.  Many hide from life and give up just about everything in their life to avoid being seen.  These are the tortured stories of the < 1% of annual gyne onset that are too tortured to not get surgery.  Some gain their freedom and hopefully happiness with surgery.  Sadly many don't get either their freedom or happiness. 



So, are you a typical possessor gyne when considering the whole population?  Nope, but that is because you are in so many smaller subgroups.  Flat as a board ectomorphs is perhaps 20%.  Onset of gyne during 20s and 30s is a small percentage thing with maybe 75% of the guys with breasts older than you or have had them since puberty.  That is guaranteed to change.  You too will be middle aged and older and join the biggest cohort of men with breasts despite having a build that doesn't give the illusion of breasts with muscle and fat.

I asked you the depth of your chest from floor to sternum lying on the floor.  Mine is 11 inches.   It affects appearance.  If I had a flat chest with nipples as I do have, they would still be sticking out 4+ inches from my stomach with my shirt hanging off of them, no breasts needed.  You take away the breast tissue  and I still have maybe a B cup with muscle and flat sub-c fat just covering the underlying muscle and so on. You would have to wear a Magic Bra with DD breasts to get your breasts sticking out as far from your waist as mine do if I were totally flat.  Who knows if it is ribs or breasts pushing those nipples out under a shirt than hangs off of them as you put it.

Good luck.

NO there are not a lot of people exactly like you. You belong to several small percentage categories.  However, in a group of 200 men with gyne of all ages and sizes, you would fit right in on the small end of things.

The reason you don't see a lot of guys with a little gyne is because it is not particularly visible or abnormal and hence noticeable.  If the guys are hiding, you won't see it at all.  You are no more noticeable.  I have engaged in a lot of people watching the past few weeks and have seen far more gyne than I had ever really noticed or paid attention to in the past.


I don't even notice the ladies much and they are what I would normally watch.  I hate to admit it but I am a worse observer than I ever though I was  much of the time.  I was always on the lookout for bullies, not fellow sufferers.

[Alchemist]

Hi Bummed,

One thing I meant to add before.  When I teach people the spiritual practice of Alchemy, it is nude.  If they can't deal with something as relatively trivial as body issues they will never deal with the really serious stuff that is deeply buried.  One starts with easy and obvious stuff and peels the layers from the outside.  It gives a person an easy sure place to start and gives about everybody something they can transform. 

[Jay55]

My opinions...

Health Issues- I'm one of those who has multiple serious health issues. Although I don't consider my breasts a health issue, they're at least partially a result of a health issue and the treatment of health issues. So I don't consider my breast growth irrelevant, as it's partially a side effect, and it's hard for me to consider them as irrelevant, especially when they continue to grow. I just don't have them anywhere near the top of my health issue list. That's my case. I do understand that for many men who have gyne not caused by another medical issue, it might be irrelevant.

Appearance Issues- I don't necessarily call it narcissism if someone, whether they work out or not, is bothered by their breast growth. I imagine the number of men who are happy about having gyne are few and far between. And although I too have seen very mild cases where surgery was done, and if it were me, I wouldn't have went that route. But we're all different, and if someone wants surgery for their very small breast growth, it's their decision, and I don't consider them a narcissist just because of that. It's not much different than wearing a bra. Some men do. I choose not to. It's an individual choice. But I do understand what you're saying and the point you make.

Questionable Appearance- See above.

Misc- Unfortunately I fall into the category of having other, more serious health issues. I'm far from being a narcissist also. But, although my breasts aren't high up on my priority list, and even though I've accepted them and I don't look at everyone around me to see if they are looking at me, I also can't say that I have never been embarrassed by them. There will always be times, a very few, when I'll feel a little bit embarrassed. And it's not so much my breasts that caused the embarrassment, it's that I allowed someone around me to make me feel that way. I just don't let if affect my day or my outlook because it only lasts a second. I have other, much more important things going on in my life. And not just medically. My happiness for one. No matter how big these breasts get, I refuse to set around and waste my remaining time moping and feeling sorry for myself. So I'm a male with female breasts. Compared to what I deal with on a daily basis, they're a minor annoyance, if that.

[jinr0h]

I dont think you get it, you mention something like ''nobody would notice'', obviously people do, just read some stories here about daily life in school, people dont feel the way they do about their gyne for nothing and you are trying to trivialize gyne to bring up health issues. Of course it's unfortunate if someone ends up in a wheelchair, but saying something like ''you dont have the right to complain'' on the gyne board is completely biased imo. Although i do kind of get the frustration when someone with an extremely mild case i saying that their lifes ruined

[hammer]

I dont think you get it, you mention something like ''nobody would notice'', obviously people do, just read some stories here about daily life in school, people dont feel the way they do about their gyne for nothing and you are trying to trivialize gyne to bring up health issues. Of course it's unfortunate if someone ends up in a wheelchair, but saying something like ''you dont have the right to complain'' on the gyne board is completely biased imo. Although i do kind of get the frustration when someone with an extremely mild case i saying that their lifes ruined

Do you remember that shaggy blond hair guy in school that was very dirty, rags for cloths and the holes in  his shoes? everyone always teased him about his shoes, but he did his best to tough it out! His folks had no work and did the best they could to provide, but he still was hurt inside because his shoes had holes inside and out, his toes would stick out.

Then in the middle of the year, the new kid started at your school, and he had no feet!

[jinr0h]

I dont think you get it, you mention something like ''nobody would notice'', obviously people do, just read some stories here about daily life in school, people dont feel the way they do about their gyne for nothing and you are trying to trivialize gyne to bring up health issues. Of course it's unfortunate if someone ends up in a wheelchair, but saying something like ''you dont have the right to complain'' on the gyne board is completely biased imo. Although i do kind of get the frustration when someone with an extremely mild case i saying that their lifes ruined

Do you remember that shaggy blond hair guy in school that was very dirty, rags for cloths and the holes in  his shoes? everyone always teased him about his shoes, but he did his best to tough it out! His folks had no work and did the best they could to provide, but he still was hurt inside because his shoes had holes inside and out, his toes would stick out.

Then in the middle of the year, the new kid started at your school, and he had no feet!

That's tragic, yes and i think we all agree some folks have it worse than others. But hey we are on the gyne forum, and i dont like the way he tells others how gyne is some kind of bad joke. Call me insecure or whatever but i dont think we can change the way we see our gyne no matter how hard you try, and i dont understand why health issues are being brought up. Its completely uncomparable

[hammer]

I dont think you get it, you mention something like ''nobody would notice'', obviously people do, just read some stories here about daily life in school, people dont feel the way they do about their gyne for nothing and you are trying to trivialize gyne to bring up health issues. Of course it's unfortunate if someone ends up in a wheelchair, but saying something like ''you dont have the right to complain'' on the gyne board is completely biased imo. Although i do kind of get the frustration when someone with an extremely mild case i saying that their lifes ruined

Do you remember that shaggy blond hair guy in school that was very dirty, rags for cloths and the holes in  his shoes? everyone always teased him about his shoes, but he did his best to tough it out! His folks had no work and did the best they could to provide, but he still was hurt inside because his shoes had holes inside and out, his toes would stick out.

Then in the middle of the year, the new kid started at your school, and he had no feet!

That's tragic, yes and i think we all agree some folks have it worse than others. But hey we are on the gyne forum, and i dont like the way he tells others how gyne is some kind of bad joke. Call me insecure or whatever but i dont think we can change the way we see our gyne no matter how hard you try, and i dont understand why health issues are being brought up. Its completely uncomparable

Believe it or not I support gynecomastia surgery. I was using that story and my life stories to try to tell people that you do not need to be victims! Yes I know people are cruel, but you also have the power to learn not to be the their target!

Good luck

Bob

[jinr0h]

Believe it or not I support gynecomastia surgery. I was using that story and my life stories to try to tell people that you do not need to be victims! Yes I know people are cruel, but you also have the power to learn not to be the their target!

Good luck

Bob

Me personally have never been targeted, also no one noticed my gyne, ever. I knew how i felt about it though and got the surgery about 6 months ago. However if i was bullied i imagine it would be extremely difficult to turn the tables, first thing to pop in my mind would be violence and of course this is wrong and can turn out bad. But i do think you need to ''send a message''
Thank you though

[Alchemist]

 
That's tragic, yes and i think we all agree some folks have it worse than others. But hey we are on the gyne forum, and i dont like the way he tells others how gyne is some kind of bad joke. Call me insecure or whatever but i dont think we can change the way we see our gyne no matter how hard you try, and i dont understand why health issues are being brought up. Its completely uncomparable

Call me insecure or whatever but i dont think we can change the way we see our gyne no matter how hard you try,

I don't know how many systems, spiritual, secular, psychological, money making and philosophical systems would disagree but understanding that we can can recover from traumas and abuse, that we can grow beyond our former limits, that we can change our minds.  We are not lizards; learn once, do until dead.  We are advanced mammals.  We can unlearn and relearn. We can have single event learning.  We can grow up in a republican home and vote democrat.  In some versions we can stop being sinners which is relearning to do something differently.  Call it what you want.  We can change ourselves.

One way we change is by learning more. For me, I had maybe 50-100 bad experiences during school years.  I've had hundreds of good experiences and thousands of neutral experiences where nothing at all happened despite my fears.  I haven't had any of those "bad" experiences in 45 years.  Of course I can change.

Another way is changing understanding.  In 7th grade I had the biggest breasts in the class, boys and girls.  I thought gyne was very rare as there was just me at a school with 550 boys.  Since then I have learned that lots of guys with little breasts were also in the group.  Understanding that 50-70% of guys having gyne over their lifetime constitutes the very definition of "normal".

I'm not a victim and don't want to identify as such.  And burying the fear doesn't change the things inside of us.  The fears and structures being built on those fears if they are not cleaned out remain with us affecting us our whole life.

and i dont understand why health issues are being brought up.

Don't you think that years of irrational fear, terror, trashing one's life, PTSD, body dysmorphic disorder, social phobia, body phobia, malignant body shame or whatever other words that describe a specific instance are mental health issues?  They produce similar or worse results than disabling chronic illness like FMS, CFS, MS, Parkinson's etc.

I wouldn't go to a surgeon and say "cut them off" for a non medical issue, would you?  Surgical intervention makes it a medical situation no matter what it might have started out.  For a lot of us who did get ill, chronic illnesses trump everything else in our lives.  You are as affected or more so than many people with chronic diseases. 

Chronic diseases and injuries crowd out everything else.  They are a distraction.  I didn't abandon going to swim or water ski or anything else because of breasts.  There was no question of my being able to go do that.  So there was no opportunity for things that would have required me to see it.  As Bob says, in the wheelchair he is invisible. He also likely doesn't get invited to any high school maturity parties to turn down because his breasts might be seen.  Me neither.

Here I sit in my God given body.  I'm not going to hate and fear my body.  That is ultimately self defeating. I watched these guys who's gyne is invisible to everybody but those with gyne.  The differences can be subtle before and after surgery and there is the FEAR of regrowth or whatever.  How long does that last?   Waiting all your life fearing a regrowth and looking hard every day for any sign of it is not solving the problem in my book.  It doesn't give you freedom and I would guess not happiness either.  I've watched people end their purported causes of anxiety and the anxiety remains as a habit or something and it continues.

And plenty of women have surgery for breast implants to make them bigger, and bigger again.  And some have them taken out.  Then there are those who get surgery after surgery to correct their unhappiness.

So how and why are we in this world?  That has been endless debated.  If one goes with reincarnation and karma, then all sorts of things might have meaning.  If we are indeed God created and our bodies are exactly what they are supposed to be for us to achieve whatever it is set out for us to solve.

At the nudist club I've had flat chested ladies offer to trade with me if it could somehow happen.  It's a joke and we have our laugh.  We each have what the other would like and we dislike.  And there is the cosmic joke or as Monty Python put it "the fickle finger of fate".  Learn to find the humor in that. It can be healing.