improve testosterone levels- prevent atrophy.

[masterp]

hey guys.

i am 18 and have managed to lose a lot of weight . i lost like 35 pounds, and i am quite slim but still have some chest and tummy fat. i have had a lot of success taking zinc, and my endo has suggested that i am a borderline patient worthy of testosterone replacement therapy. the problem is that i am only 18, and going on trt for too long makes you infertile. as i have had a lot of success reducingthe estrogen on zinc, is there an equivalent to improve my testosterone without taking the gels or creams. is there any way to improve the effect of the testosterone i actually produce. my concern is that on trt my own production will shut down, and then i will become infertile. as i am not a drastic case, i would much rather avoid the whole medication root. i have fatty chest and slightly puffy nips but no gland, and gyne isn't noticible really with a shirt on, so i really an not that drastic.

all suggestions welcome

[nukem2k5]

May I ask what kind of zinc do you take (like the amount and such)?  

I am also 18 and my Testosterone is 424 ng/dL and my Estradiol is 37.

I presented some literature about DIM (diindolylmethane) to my endocrinologist but she does not feel that I should tamper with my hormones yet because I am still just 18.  I'm not sure if she quite understood that DIM is produced naturally from cruciferous plants such as broccoli and the like.

Anyway, I'm still debating taking it since I had my surgery yesterday and don't want to have any regrowth during the time I wait to see any improvement in my levels (I'll be testing again in a year to see how they are).

Here's some info provided by hypo to me about DIM:

Your low SHBG should mean that you have a good level of free testosterone.

The only thing inhibiting that is your raised estradiol level.  It is quite high despite the range suggesting otherwise- I can get a mountain of evidence to show this is the case if you want?  

Your estradiol level is what is termed as high normal and given that range also accounts for men over 50 is not healthy for a man your age.  The fact that you have low SHBG mean that you will also have a higher than normal level of free estradiol (which is bad news) as low SHBG increases the binding affinity of both testosterone and estradiol even though it binds less to the latter.

I think if that was lowered you would have a higher level of free testosterone, would probably feel quite a bit better and would have less chance of re-growth of gynecomastia post surgery.

Your estradiol could be lowered with a natural supplement called DIM (diindolylmethane) that no doctor should have problem with.

DIM adjusts the balance of oestradiol to its "good" metabolites, lowers estradiol- which can also result in a more desirable action from testosterone.  

Give this to your doctor and see what they have to say about the use of DIM.  Ignore the title and the fact that it refers to its anti cancer properties- DIM is being used across the US by men with low normal testosterone values and elevated estrogen- to lower estradiol and balance/rectify hormone imbalances.  It is used by world leading endocrinologist Dr Eugene Shippen for this purpose.  

http://www.atdonline.org/pdf/DIMandCancer.pdf#search='what%20does%20dim%20indolplex%20do?'

One quarter of a DIM tablet (30mg) with indolplex (allows for high bioavailability at a low dose) a day is what I would suggest.  

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Take the print out of the first link and a print out of the product  to your endocrinologist and see what they have to say.

This is not snake oil it has been proven to lower estradiol.  I myself use it under the guidance of world leading endocrinologist Malcolm Carruthers M.D, FRCPATH, MRCGP (author of the Testosterone Revolution) to lower my estradiol level.

[masterp]

hey i take chelated zinc, about 75 mg a day, and it has really lowered my estrogen. i still have a fatty chest, but i havent lost any weight recently so its not as if its just ggoing to disappear. if you want to chat about having gyne at our age, feel free to pm me. have u had any success with any other approaches. i dont want to go on trt because it turns your balls off.

pm me

[rcbrown23]

DIM kicks ass.

I was at 442 (test) and estradiol was 45. I take a quarter of a pill in the morning and a quarter at night. If I've been drinking heavily, I take a half at night.

I haven't measurent my estradiol yet...but I don't need to to know that the DIM is working. My general health has improved 100%. My sleeping has improved 1000%. I even had a small skin itching/rash for a few years now...since the DIM, it's gone. My endo wanted to put me on all sorts of prescription crap; I did my own research (along with Hypo's help) and fixed my problem with natural products and wothout having to take scrips the rest of my life.

The tricky part is finding how much to take. Just a little too much, and you drop too low and can feel it.

Like Hypo...I don't advise self-medicating, but it could be something to look in to and talk to a doctor about. It has REALLY improved my general health/how I feel every day.

P.S. I'm 25 and in excellent shape (except for the drinking)


-Brown

[masterp]

hey man can i ask about your hormone levels. how is your testosterone. my testosterone is pretty low, but since being on zinc my estrogen seems to have lowered. i still dont really get boners in the morning though.
what are your hormones like and has the dim sorted out the gyne. also do you know if it effects sperm or testosterone prdocution

[nukem2k5]

Brown, is that 60mg a day (one quarter, twice a day)?

I can't see how taking DIM would have any detrimental effects on me considering it's produced by cruciferous vegetables.

Would you suggest buying from that link I posted earlier?

[nukem2k5]

hey man can i ask about your hormone levels. how is your testosterone. my testosterone is pretty low, but since being on zinc my estrogen seems to have lowered. i still dont really get boners in the morning though.
what are your hormones like and has the dim sorted out the gyne. also do you know if it effects sperm or testosterone prdocution

I don't think that taking DIM will make your gyne go away (at least not completely).  I don't doubt that it can improve it but I feel that, sadly, the only way to completely be rid of the gland is to have surgery.

It is good, however, to improve your health, and so the DIM and zinc are advantageous regardless of whether or not you have surgery.  Keep us updated on how you fare.

[rcbrown23]

This is where I get it from. Apparently, the indolplex is what helps. Other places that sell it have considerably higher amounts of the actual DIM, but it's not absorbed into the body, so it's pointless.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

I thought that it would not be powerful enough for me...my estradiol was 45 and that's pretty high. I was taking one pill a day for about a week when I realized that it WAS working, and I was taking too much. I'm at a half a pill a day...most people I've talked to only take a quarter pill a day.

Again...not recommending self medication.

I'm also taking zinc with copper to act as an anti-aromatose and help with testosterone levels. Also lifting heavy weights at low reps releases buckets of testosterone, so I've been lifting heavy up till my op 13 days ago. When I was last checked, my testosterone was at 442ng/dl. I'm sure it's raised to a comfortable level now with the changes to my lifestyle/excersize routine.


To answer another question. "No" I don't think that it will solve anybody's gyne problem.