New laws coming

[Evolver]

There are certain things that transphobes and TERFs need to keep in mind. Speaking specifically about MtF.

Transgender people have always existed. It isn't a fad, or a phenomenon promoted by the previous administration. It has been recognized by first nations peoples around the world for millennia.  All the Dems did was to reinforce that they recognized that it was real, which made more transgender people come out of hiding due to acceptance.

Being transgender isn't voluntary. It's not about dressing up or stalking women in their restrooms. It's no more voluntary than being left-handed. Interestingly, that cohort used to be demonized as well, forced to comply with norms with resultant pain. Once they were accepted, they also came out of hiding, and they seemed to be everywhere. The sky didn't fall in!

Pushback only happens because 'low information' people think that it is pie. Give a minority group a slice, and they will miss out. This is, of course, complete bollocks. It is NOT pie. There is plenty of room for everyone.

Transgender people are NOT sub-human. They ARE human and deserve the same basic human right to exist as cisgender people. Giving them that is NOT giving them MORE rights than women! Anyone who thinks that it does, clearly has a misogynistic mindset, period.

As far as sports go, if there is such an advantage, why don't transwomen win all the time?

[Justagirl💃]

NIH study to determine if transgenders have and advantage in sports. 
Conclusions include that none that transitioned before puberty or with help of puberty blockers. 

It seems post puberty transition needs more study, but 2 years under treatments shows significant reduction in any advantage. 

In regards to the Olympic boxer that was cited by much of media, it was also noted that she was possibly intersex and not transgender. In that case hormonal balances would be different than the typical transgender and she would have to be seen in a case by case scenario basis simply because her hormone levels might have given her an advantage, but who knows. I don't think anybody ever tested her. They simply accuse her of being transgender and disqualified her.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8944319/:'(

[taxmapper]

The aspect of "Trans' in the modern connotation is actually quite young. Trans sexuality trans gender, whatever term you want to use is when a person makes the conscious decision to alter their persona and body to a different subset of whatever it may be from what would be considered "normative" for their given birth sex. the idea of altering one's 'expected" gender is in fact age old. Hijras from India have a historical record dating to the 15th Century BC and poss. before. In Judaism 4 then 6 genders date back 5k years+. Zoroastrians has information on such groups including intersexed another 1500 years prior to that. 

The modern interpretation is more for contemporary audiences. Nothing more than a label at this point.  But yes, such do exist and are not fetishes, or psychologically deviant. That was a product of Victorian England and the Pax Britannica. 

Inter sex, DSD, Hermaphrodite etc individuals are people who were born with altered aspects from 'normative" people (I use this word only for contemporary means) because3 they fall outside what is where people think they should be. Ambiguous boy-girl parts along with aspects and/or personality traits that do not follow these "normative' aspects have been recorded for more than 8K years in various texts. The Vedic culture from the Indus Valley, though the Babylonian and Chinese ancient cultures, Mayan, Peruvian, Nat American and even Eskimo cultures recognize these traits.   Remember, there is a deeply long history of what we all is, and should never ever be ashamed nor criticize other of 'us folk" simply over politics.  

They and we are in fact sill human.  but left-right i would remind everyone be careful of labeling.   The Republicans gained bad reputations in the 1970's mostly due to Tricky Dix.. But I would also remind everyone that in the South the Democrats held a death grip on discrimination for more than 100 years.   It is a sad commentary of today that these kinds of labels are still applied due to emotional arguments. Remember, those who are the true enemy love us splintered and fighting each other.  

As i stated, 10 years ago you would have found me solidly within one of those camps. Now, I am on the periphery because of my hormone stew and the changes that I am going through causes me to be excluded.   Its deeply painful when those who surround you on either side use their ignorance as a weapon.   

Why we need to stand together. 

[WPW717]

Got my education in hormones with this syndrome ( MEN )

The flipping of the T/E ratio had a major effect on me. Then the bilateral orchiectomy doubled down on the process of feminization of my body & mind. 
In the 1950’s I was as intrigued by the Christine Jorgensen story as I was by my own experiences with puberty.
My life has changed dramatically as I have grown older and weaker, from age alone and amplified by loss of testosterone. My remaining adrenal gland is polycystic and produces so little T it’s hard to measure. The loss of strength is measurable… an effect of the first magnitude. A gallon of milk or a full coffee pot is hard to precisely control. I am a ‘ mugwamp’ on these issues. I see the need for protecting title 9, and the need to be tolerant and accepting of the gender/trans issues. 
WPATH Guidelines & gender dysphoria is real but the history of the progressive movement is to take a mile once an inch is given. Greater minds than mine will have to solve these moral questions. I am a simple person. I also believe in laissez-faire living.

[Moobzie]

From Trav:
"Moobs, you come off as VERY politically right of sensible and a listener of RW radio."
__________
Sigh .... another mentally flatulent ad hominem.  So .... to you, ditto my flattering comment to 42.
Seriously - everyone try sticking to issues rather than attacking those who may disagree with yours.

[Justagirl💃]

There are some simple facts to be seen here:

1) you never know what it's like to be a male teenager with boobs until you are a male teenager with boobs. The teenage years are really hard.

2) you therefore don't know what it's like to be intersex until you are intersex. Again those teenage years are very hard. I actually lived those. I also had a roofie slipped into my drink at a party when I was 17 and apparently raped but I don't remember it.

3) no one except the transgender can understand the mental anguish they go through on a daily basis until they embrace everything. It's something that none of us can understand without living it.

In my opinion, but my opinion is often wrong, I think the transgender movement got just a little bit too much "emphasis" in the last 4 years causing some backlash that would be expected. Had everyone just used the "leave me alone and let me be" technique we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are right now. The same scenario applies to men with boobs, just leave me alone and let me be and I won't expect you to understand.

We are in fact simply humans, and very diverse at that.

[WPW717]

Right on Birdie 

Again … laissez-faire

[Moobzie]

Agree, Birdie.

[Evolver]

I think this thread needs a bit of comedy relief.

I found this clip of Moobzie on YouTube, he's even dressed in his white supremacist gear!

I know he'll be intelligent enough to take it with the good humor it was intended, and invite him to reply in kind:

Buster the cockatoo rant/story time with Dad (subtitles)

[Gino]

There are some simple facts to be seen here:

>>SNIP>> Had everyone just used the "leave me alone and let me be" technique we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are right now. The same scenario applies to men with boobs, just leave me alone and let me be and I won't expect you to understand.

We are in fact simply humans, and very diverse at that.

I agree 100%. I will add to that the vast majority of folks I know and have known have been aware of many who in fact DID practice "leave me alone" and they did leave them alone. 

Were there kids who got beat up? Yes, I'm one of them my being 5'3" and still very outwardly male got me picked on and beat up, as did Hispanics, multi racial kids, Jews, and more but bigotry is a human condition that I'm glad to say I've observed that many have "grown out of".

 

[Evolver]

"...bigotry is a human condition that I'm glad to say I've observed that many have "grown out of"."

For me, it's the opposite. It is my unfortunate experience in life that what I observe is a rush towards bigotry by disaffected younger people, enabled by the dog-whistling from conservative politicians and their radio 'shock-jock' or tabloid press mates or role models such as Andrew Tate. It's not just susceptible Millennials and Gen Zer's though. Many Mk I Boomers seem to be getting louder and louder in their pushback against anything from multiculturalism to renewable energy to anything else that changed since the day they were born! They are just not intelligent enough to realize that the world has always changed, even though they've witnessed it themselves, and that no-one has the right to expect that everything should remain frozen in time from the day that they were born. They resist change. Thankfully they will eventually die out, but unfortunately, they will no doubt be replaced by this new generation of haters.

How on earth are we meant to stop the spread of racists/misogynists/sexists/homophobes/transphobes/zealots/deniers haters? Planet earth is a spaceship and we're all aboard. We have two choices if we all want to get along. We can all be haters, but life would end pretty quickly. Or we can all be non-haters and not be racist or misogynistic or sexist or homophobic or transphobic or zealous or in denial. I just can't understand why it is so hard for some people to be like that.

[Justagirl💃]

I posted an answer to the last post, but later regretted it because this isn't really a place for political talk. I therefore deleted that post.

I had a website that I paid for out-of-pocket and managed myself on my spare time where political discussion was welcomed and well used. I unfortunately was the target of the IRS as they determined that it was a business and that I was not filing taxes on my profits. Of course the website was paid for out-of-pocket and I did not take donations so it was an absolute loss of money if it was a business, but they declared it a business venture nonetheless.

The IRS determined an estimated income from the website and tax liability owed that I was stuck paying payments on for a little over a year. I subsequently shut the website down. I was simply a "Target" because I was a "moderate conservative".

That was the website for political talk but it no longer exists.

But nonetheless, this is the site about gynecomastia that also Ventures into the hormonal stew that many of us endure. Some of us, as I personally know at least one other, are intersex as well and also share experiences in line with this site.

We are on the acceptance side of this website and we are learning to accept ourselves as 'We Are Who We Are' regardless of our political affiliation, race, color, or gender.

[Traveler]

From Trav:
"Moobs, you come off as VERY politically right of sensible and a listener of RW radio."
__________
Sigh .... another mentally flatulent ad hominem.  So .... to you, ditto my flattering comment to 42.
Seriously - everyone try sticking to issues rather than attacking those who may disagree with yours.

It’s not “ad hominem” if it’s true! 
I said you come off as…
Please let me know who your favorite MSNBC anchor is. :-D

[Moobzie]

From Trav-esty:
"It’s not “ad hominem” if it’s true! "
________
B.S.:  An ad hominem is, by definition, an attack on a personal level while ignoring the issue being discussed / debated.  So, yes, it was, and still is, ad hominem.

[Justagirl💃]

An update from the medical day-centre.

After an obviously demented patient at the centre couldn't help but keep his eyes off my boobs 'Non-Stop' and got upset when I covered them up with my jumper, it was decided that I was "provoking him by not dressing appropriately." I have been told to dress more conservatively and more androgynous.

I asked the CNAs if they have a problem with him and apparently he gets very handsy when they are showering him and also tries to look down their blouses at every possible chance. Management says that he doesn't know what he's doing is only acting on impulse.

That being the case, I failed to understand why the perfectly normal blouse I bought at Torrid doesn't fit the dress code and is provoking him. Yesterday I wore a baggy button-up shirt and I still caught him staring at me. I actually had to turn my back to him so he wouldn't be staring directly at my boobs. He is constantly waving the CNAs over asking them to give him a kiss or sexual favours. What does the way I dress have anything to do with the situation?

Any excuse just to get me to start hiding my boobs again.