Signs of horomone problems

[mizuno]

Are there any signs that you have horomone problems?

I have normal hair & sex drive is good.

What are the basic symptoms of hormone problems?

Thanks.

[mizuno]

I got around 8th grade or freshman year in high school.
It seems like it got worse 4 to 5 years ago. BUt, what happened was I dropped
15 to 20 lbs fairly quickly. I had some personla stress that caused my weight losss and stomach problems.

And it seems like it is getting worse but I'm up there in age. 35 years old.
My chest is real flabbly and has hardly anymore more muscle now.

50/50 now about getting it (horomones) teested.

[skyhawk]

signs of low testosterone is fatigue, low sex drive and irritability, gynecomastia, plus a bunch of other symptoms.

[macho]

common  problem in all kind of hormone deficiencies is back pain and neck pain.

[Time_to_fix_it]

Some of the above replies to Mizunos post worry me.

When it comes to gyno related hormone problems you can usually get an idea from WHEN the gyno occured and HOW FAST it formed.

If someone just has a deficiency of testosterone the gyno will appear slowly and gradually. But if someone has increased estrogen (possibly from a estrogen producing tumor) the gyno will form rapidly and get more severe.
 

I believe this to be wrong.

Glandular gyne is simply caused by an imbalance of androgens to oestrogens in favour of oestrogens.  That can mean too little testosterone and normal levels of oestrogens, or it can mean normal levels of testosterone and elevated levels of oestrogens.  Yes, that imbalance can be caused by a whole number of things, but I have yet to read anything that says the speed of the onset of gyne can simply be credited to whichever hormone is either deficient or elevated.  Likewise of the 3 Endos I have seen, none of them has mentioned this either.  They told me that some oestrogen excreting tumours can be slow growing and some fast.

Hormone tests are expensive and even if they do detect an imbalance it's often impossible to correct it in a way that ensures gyno won't come back. Like people who are found to have Hypogonadism, they put them on testosterone replacement therapy which also causes gyno.

Right and wrong.

Yes hormone testing can be expensive but it might be covered by your insurance.  What it will give you is a fail safe way of knowing if you have a hormonal problem rather than trying to guess if you have a problem.  What is wrong with the above reply is that it IS possible to ensure gyne won’t grow back if there is an underlying hormonal imbalance, by having treatment by a suitably qualified and experienced Endocrinologist.  That treatment MIGHT include testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) but it might include a number of other treatments depending on any medical condition found.  An expert Endo who thought TRT was suitable for any found medical condition, would make sure that a hormonal balance existed within the treatment program, thereby ensuring the gyne wouldn’t return after surgery or increase if surgery wasn’t undertaken.

common problem in all kind of hormone deficiencies is back pain and neck pain.

Sorry, wrong again.  That may be the case with SOME types of hormonal problems but certainly not all.

I had a hormonal problem for 3 years before a proper diagnosis was made and not once did I experience either neck or back pain.

We are all here to help one another and to everyone’s credit that is what we all try to do, however I feel we really do need to be sure of what we say before we post replies.

I would answer Mizunos question quite simply.  If you feel that at the age of 35 your gyne is getting worse as you say in your second post on this thread, and if it is glandular, then you need to get your hormones tested by an expert Endo to find out why.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[mizuno]

Good reply Time-to.
That's the dilema I'm in. Sometimes I think it is the glands that are growing and sometimes I think it is me putting extra body fat which goes to my chest, love handles & face.
I only weigh 130lbs. About 4 years ago I weighed around 118 lbs. Sometimes, my nipples hurt and I can feel things on my chest don't know if it is fingers of gland
or fat ?

This is my plan I'm going to detailed photo's I plan on joining the gym next week and see what it looks like in 2-4 weeks.
So, hopefully I can find out if it is mainly fat or gland is getting bigger.

[mizuno]

Also I would like to add this:

But, I have been having some itchy and spots on my chest especially by my aerola area.
It looks like there is small hair growing around there. Has anyone else had this?
I thought it was pimples or acne but I never had that before  and it itches. Acne doesn't really itch?

[Time_to_fix_it]

So because you haven't read about it or your endos didn't mention it to you means it's wrong?
 

Ok I will be more precise.  I have seen 3 Endocrinologists, the final one was a renowned Professor of Endocrinology and he told me that oestrogen secreting tumours can grow at different rates.  Now being a Professor of Endocrinology I reckon that makes him an expert and I would prefer his knowledge and experience over any other.  I did actually say in my post that .. "They (Endos) told me that some oestrogen excreting tumours can be slow growing and some fast".

It is very important to mention here that there are many causes of gynecomatia and tumours account for only a very small proportion of them.  The following causes of gynecomastia and percentages are taken from a medical paper .. The Endocrinology of Gynaecomastia by AAA Ismail and JH Barth (Department of Clinical Biochemistry and Immunology, Leeds General Infirmary, England.)

Cause                                (%)
Idiopathic (unknown)           25
Puberty                              25
Drugs                              10-20
Cirrhosis or Malnutrition        8
Primary Hypogonadism          8
Testicular tumour                 3
Secondary Hypogonadism      2
Hyperthyroidism                   2
Renal Disease                      1
Others                                6

If a person wants to read a little deeper on the subject then I suggest they Google this paper and download it.

As for not going to an endocrinologist, I'm not saying it's a bad thing to go to one. If you have really good insurance or else a ton of money laying around waiting to be spent, then go for it! I don't think in Mizuno's case it's necessary because there's already an explantion for why he got gynocamstia and why it got worse, from him losing weight. AND he has no other symptoms of  hormonal problems. He already seems like he's overly paranoid about it and you're just feeding the fire. Now the poor guy is going to waste $600 or however much the tests cost.

We can only go on what we are told by people who post on here; Mizuno said in the second post on this thread that at the age of 35 his gyne is getting worse.  I was careful to say that if his gyne was glandular as opposed to pseudo (fat), he should get it investigated.  I base this again on my consultations with Endos and on the above medical paper which says in it’s summary .... “It (gynecomastia) must be regarded as unusual in pre-pubertal children and all young and MIDDLE AGED men.”  Most of us would put a man in his middle 30s as in the bracket of young to middle aged.

So my reply was based on what Mizuno tells us, my 3 years of experience of consultations with Endos including a Professor, and on the medical papers that I have read and quoted, I still think the best advice is to see an Endo.  Now you may think that I’m feeding his “paranoid fire” (your words not mine) by suggesting that he gets some medical expertise in investigating this, but I call it common sense.  If a person thinks they have a medical problem then a wise person seeks a medical opinion.  You and I are not doctors and least of all not Endocrinologists, so we can’t offer a medical opinion.  What we can offer is advice based upon experience and my advice is .. if in doubt seek expert help.

Which brings us onto your next point.

Oh, and just because you get a test doesn't mean it will catch a problem. Even if it's done by a certified endocrinologist, endocrinology is a relatively new science and the measurements aren't anywhere close to being precise. There have been a ton of guys on this forum who have all the symptoms of low testosterone and the test puts them in the normal range.

I believe that some of what you say is correct here but I don't think you paint an accurate picture of the situation.  It is important to find a suitably qualified and experienced Endo. Most Endos deal with the more common hormonal problems such as diabetes and thyroid problems: a gyne patient does need to hunt around and find an Endo who specialises in male reproductive issues.

You may have a point in saying that Endocrinology is a relatively new branch of medicine, for instance the UK Society for Endocrinology was set up in 1946 but that is over 60 years ago.  However in those last 60 years Endocrinology has helped to produce remarkable advances in the treatment and understanding of diseases and conditions relating to diabetes, thyroid pituitary and many cancers, so I wouldn’t write off Endocrinology so quickly.

I disagree with you when you say that "measurements aren't anywhere close to being precise".  There are issues with some of the oestradiol assays, but what level of precision (accuracy is a better word) do you want?  The accuracy level that the lab I use quoted me that their results for oestradiol will have a maximum error of 10% of the true value.  For instance my last oestradiol result was 105 pmol/L (lab range 0 – 274), so even if that was 10% in error it really doesn’t make a huge difference to the assessment my Endo makes of my hormone health as he is looking at the wider picture of levels, balances and symptoms.  By the way, for other hormones the lab I use quotes 2%.  No measurement of anything will be exact, there will always be a statistical standard deviation from the “true” value for one reason or another.

A good and experienced Endo will know the problems with measuring oestradiol levels and base his or her judgement on the hormonal health of the patient knowing the accuracy level of the oestradiol test.  He will not just be looking at the lab ranges, as he will know that the said lab ranges cover males right across the age spectrum whose “normal” values will vary greatly.  Most importantly the Endo will be looking at balances between different hormones even if they fall within the lab ranges.  A simple GP or other doctor might just say that if a person results fall within the lab ranges then the patient must be fine.  That is why it is important to see a good Endo and not any old doctor who doesn’t have the knowledge or experience in this area of health.

It is important also to say that an Endo doesn’t just run a blood test and push you out of the door 3 minutes later.  At the initial Endo appointment he will take a full medical history, give a thorough physical check up (including an examination of testicles, chest etc) and run a series of blood tests.  Basically the patient should be getting a thorough going over.


I take on board what you say c17361736 even if I think it to be a little cynical and inaccurate, but my advice to Mizuno is still the same .. namely ...  If a middle aged man has growing glandular gynecomastia then he should get himself checked out by a suitably experienced Endo, preferably one who specialises in the male reproductive problems.

I base my advice to Mizuno on what has happened to me, my ongoing experience with Endos and an Andrologist and the medical paper I quoted earlier.  To me it is simple.  If I think I have a medical problem, I seek medical advice from an expert.  You and I can argue the toss about which test is the best or more accurate, how long the science of endocrinology has existed, or even if the whole thing is a waste of time, but personally I’m not prepared to discount the whole medical investigative process because a test might (at worst) only be correct within 10% of its true value.  I firmly believe that the only way an individual is going to know the true state of his hormonal health is to see a good Endo, get properly examined, tested and assessed.  Just looking at physical symptoms, or blood results on their own aren’t enough; it’s the whole package that an Endo offers.

Finally I would say that it is of course eventually down to the individual to assess the advice he has been given and make up his own mind.

Mizuno .. good luck to you and keep us posted as to what you do.

[Time_to_fix_it]

This thread has gone way off topic.  I’ve taken apart those statements that were made and which I disputed, and can see no benefit to anyone in continuing with this simply for arguments sake.  We are getting too bogged down in technicalities that do not help Mizuno.

My first thought in replying to anyone who visits this site in fear and in need of help, is that we owe it to them to be accurate and supportive in our replies. Sweeping statements and generalisations based on what is often thin anecdotal evidence and heresay, more often confuses that person rather than supports them.

If someone wants to have the last word on this subject to make them feel better, then they are free to do so as I have nothing more to say on it except lets get on with helping people rather than confusing them.

[Jackd]

Consider some common examples of gynecomastia and how fast they form. Take a bodybuilder who shoots up testosterone, estrogen is converted from testosterone so the increased testosterone = increased estrogen. The gyne will be obvious within 6 weeks for this type of situation.

Then look at all the people who have just had hypogonadism, low testosterone without increased estrogen, the gynecomastia forms gradually and doesn't get as severe.

I don't get that.........

A bodybuilder using testosterone would have a normal testosterone level in the first place and the extra testosterone would cause the problems here.... too much testosterone which would then cause high estrogen levels?

With hypergonadism, the persons testosterone is already at a really low level, the testosterone treatment will bring the levels up to a "normal" level, not way higher than is normal in the first case? therefore how would that then cause further gyne problems? it'd make your hormones normal? its correcting them?

I have secondary hypergonadism, I got gyne before treatment when test. was low... So by your accounts, low testosterone and normal testosterone both cause gyne?? And now that I am on TRT they would get worse? I go to the endo's for the docs to correct my hormones in order for the gyne either to go away itself, or to be in a position to consider surgery, I can't see that correcting my hormones would not stop the gyne from coming back, else surgery would be pointless?

Sorry to further derail this thread  but I would like Time to fix it's opinion on the above... feel free to PM me if you don't want to dreail this thread any more.... and apologies to the original poster.

[mizuno]

Thanks for all the replys. I will most likely schedule an appointment with an endo.
I have pretty good insurance. So, hopefully it will cover most of it.
As, I stated earlier in this post. I fell small beads around the areola, along the sides and have been itching lately.