shakamunya,
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I am not an expert and never claim to give expert advice or even educated advice. I'm simply reporting my results and people can take it the information as they want. You are entirely correct that I do not understand all of the mechanisms at work and this is risky self-medication-- I don't argue that at all. I'm sure I am misusing terminology but I do know the difference between AI and SERM; I am simply calling all of them "anti-estrogens" since that is their function, to bind or block the formation of estrogen. I am probably misusing the term, but I understand the basics.
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You understand the inherent problems with self medication and yet you still decide to take the risks. I do not agree with you or what you are doing but at least your eyes are open.
I should say that naming conventions are important otherwise you can get other people muddled up even if you do not become confused yourself.
Anti estrogens or SERMs Selective Estrogen Receptor Moderators block estradiol at the ER but do not lower it in the blood. Aromatase Inhibitors lowers the actual blood level of estradiol.
Quote regarding endocrinologists
That is assuming a lot
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Actually it is not. Firstly I am not in the US and secondly I am fairly aware of the picture of hormonal medicine in many, many countries- you would be surprised.
Thirdly there does exist the possibility of internet consultations and prescriptions, I know of men in the UK who are treated by endocrinologists in the US for example.
I said you don't even know the exact chemical composition of this product never mind its safety record.
To which you replied quote
Actually I do. It is 1,4-androstadiene-3,6,17-trione, also called ATD or 1-6 OXO
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Well if that is the chemical structure, which it may or may not be; you still don't actually know what any of that means.
I guess we have already spoken about the issue of making your own choices so there is not too much point laboring the issue.
Although I will say one thing....
You say quote
It is chemically very close to the prescription AI exemestane (aromasin)
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What do you think close actually equates to when it comes to altered chemical structure?
Methltestosterone is close in chemical structure to testosterone but it is outlawed across most of the world (oddly not in the US) because it causes liver tumors.
Now I am not saying that this bodybuilder’s compound is dangerous, but what I am saying is it has no proven safety record and could be dangerous- you certainly don’t know exactly what you are taking.
I said there are not many studies on Tamoxifen actually at least not controlled studies involving useful numbers of patients.
To which you said quote
Not that many? It took me 2 minutes to come up with the quotes I posted above. Those are some pretty solid studies, the latest one from 2004
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I say it again no there are not many studies.
Not controlled studies involving serious numbers, which is a pity. Studies into Tamoxifen were around twenty years ago and typically involved no more than ten patients, now we see them and they are still involving single numbers or tens of patients- not really good enough.
There is promise though and if used by an endocrinologist I think it is perfectly acceptable.
But then you are not taking Tamoxifen so?
The reason I do not like people self medicating Tamoxifen is because A) 8% of all gynecomastia sufferers have an underlying liver problem and 1% of all gynecomastia sufferers have Renal problems and Tamoxifen can exacerbate liver and Renal problems.
So that is 9% almost 1 in 10 people who if they self medicated Tamoxifen could end up with problems.
Another problem is that because Tamoxifens effects cannot be measured in the blood there is no way to follow its effects with pathology and so it is easy to over dose and leave yourself and reduce the effects of estradiol too much causing thyroid problems lethargy, lowered libido erection problems etc
Another issue with Tamoxifen is the rebound effect.
You see anyone who has an underlying condition;
That is people poor androgen to estrogen ratios, the people with liver or kidney problems, people with thyroid problems etc etc
25% of all people with gynecomastia have an underlying cause. Well with all of those people once Tamoxifen has been withdrawn the STILL relatively high estradiol level will still be well relatively high, but it will now be able to access the ERs and that means re-development of gynecomastia.
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I think if we sat down in person and had a beer, we would have an interesting talk and actually agree quite a bit. My circumstances right now prevent me from seeing a qualified endocrinologist----- which would be my first choice! -----but I feel I am intelligent and mature enough to make my own decisions about what is safe enough to try and what I shouldn't.
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Yes we could chat and have a beer without a problem.
A pity your circumstances do not allow you to see an endocrinologist as I feel that would be far better for you. It is your prerogative as to what you do.
One of my concerns is even if you have a degree of success and of course I hope you do and even if you have no problem as to any side effects, it doesn’t mean that this will be the case for others and on the side effect front that is my BIG concern.
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After seeing some of the butcher jobs done by "expert surgeons" posted here, I would say that elective surgery may be riskier than what I'm doing.
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There are issues with all treatments and that includes surgery- nothing is 100%.
That said I feel surgery is a far better option than self medication as long as you have a good PS (the money- obviously) and a good check up prior from a good endocrinologist.
On the anastrozole study- It included four people; I do not consider that to be statistically of any use whatsoever- neither would most involved in the medical field.
I personally know more people and results than that study, I have been prescribed anastrozole in the past and it did virtually nothing, whereas I had a significant reduction with Andractim the reverse of your situation.
If you were to take a study of four people seriously, I would say that it was less successful in treating gynecomastia than Andractim was in controlled studies involving serious numbers of patients and you are taking a very similar substance by all accounts.
You have my thoughts- genuinely good luck anyway.
P.S
I would be interested to see your pathology before and after.
Topic: PHOTOS: Rebound XT work in progress (Read 10678 times)
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