Other stuff, maybe due to estrogen, that we haven't discussed yet.

[42CSurprise!]

I still like buying very fast cars, but then drive them slowly.

I've owned three Corvettes along the way and had so many speeding tickets as a youth that I lost my driver's license more than once.  I also have been an angry driver always in a rush to get places and always frustrated with other drivers for the things they did.  I've been aware recently how much more relaxed I've become behind the wheel.  I've attributed it to work I've been doing around trauma I experienced as a boy but it is probably true that changes in my body resulting from diminished testosterone are likely at play as well.  Estrogen can do some lovely things to our temperament, as has been mentioned quite often by men finding it easier to be with their wives who delight in the changes.

There is nothing unusual about these changes.  Testosterone diminishes with age, as does our libidinal energy.  We happen to be men who have enough concern and/or enough affection for the breasts growing on our chests, that we want to talk with other men about it.  That the conversation turns to the topic of brassieres makes it a bit unusual.  I know where that comes from for me since I developed an affection for women's undergarments as an adolescent.  It has had less to do with comfort for me than for fantasy fulfillment.  I have little doubt that the views photos posted here receive have more to do with that than simply curiosity about the mechanics of brassiere design...  For me, there is room for everything that happens here and there is NO doubt, estrogen having its way with both our bodies and minds makes all this happen.  Thanks to the BIG E...

[Johndoe1]

I still to this day have no idea what the difference is between a man and a woman displaying their hands are. What it is, he saw it.

Supposably if you look at your fingernails palm down it means you are feminine, and palm up bending the fingers means masculine.

It's an old wives tale. 😉

Palms down. I have my whole life. 

[42CSurprise!]

My palms are holding my breasts... but I guess that is a completely different thing...

[Justagirl💃]

My palms are holding my breasts... but I guess that is a completely different thing...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[tryingtoaccept]

I am learning every day just how much hormones affect thinking.   My T levels are down to low 100s.  I don't know where my estradiol levels are because my urologist doesn't test for that.  With all of that happening I now learn I have diabetes.  Having my body and hormones going crazy has really changed my thinking.

Over the past two years my emotions and way of thinking has been a wild ride.  I now find myself more emotional than I used to be.  Like a lot of you I now rarely hang out with guys and prefer to be with women.  A couple of months ago my wife said she liked how I was in touch with my feminine side.  She said it in mid conversation and intended it as a compliment.  I don't know what the future holds for me but my wife loves the new me.  In my case hormones has really changed my brain.

[WPW717]

I win … 
Last 2 Hormone exams , total T = 12 and free T = 1
Don’t think I can get much lower 
The docs think as the prolactin levels drop the T levels will increase. I am not so sure as the US of the testicles shows no response to the LH , FSH of the pituitary. I do enjoy the feeling of no T, found some quiet and peaceful moments while brushing the hair of my wife. TTFN off to work in the kitchen now 😊😇

[Evolver]

As you know Bob, that's castrate levels. Since most of the estrogen found in men is synthesized from testosterone, it is presumed that if T drops, so does E, and that is what causes vasomotor symptoms such as hot flashes. Hopefully you've still got enough E on board to not suffer through that!

[Evolver]

I still like buying very fast cars, but then drive them slowly.

I've owned three Corvettes along the way and had so many speeding tickets as a youth that I lost my driver's license more than once.  I also have been an angry driver always in a rush to get places and always frustrated with other drivers for the things they did.  I've been aware recently how much more relaxed I've become behind the wheel.

I'm glad that fast cars, macho cars, muscle cars etc. has been brought up.

I hope I can word this right and that it makes sense. A couple of years ago I went through a period in my life which I can only describe as an awakening. It actually began on this forum ( ) and it resulted in my journey towards self-acceptance. The main thing I couldn't reconcile in my mind, however, was the feeling that the only way I could let my inner woman run free would be to push my masculinity aside to make room for her...but I didn't want to! This left me confused, and it took me forever to realize that feminine people, regardless of whether they are AMAB or AFAB, can enjoy fast and loud cars, football, outdoorsy stuff etc. just as much as masculine people. So, I no longer feel guilty for owning a relic muscle car. I don't drive it often, and I don't drive it fast very much, but I do fully exploit the natural law of acceleration, lol.

Day to day, I much prefer driving my wife's Mazda CX-5. It is very comfortable and makes me drive in a calmer manner.

[tryingtoaccept]

I win …
Last 2 Hormone exams , total T = 12 and free T = 1
Don’t think I can get much lower
The docs think as the prolactin levels drop the T levels will increase. I am not so sure as the US of the testicles shows no response to the LH , FSH of the pituitary. I do enjoy the feeling of no T, found some quiet and peaceful moments while brushing the hair of my wife. TTFN off to work in the kitchen now 😊😇

Yes WPW717, you win that round.  😀 

[WPW717]

I gave a macro version of events. To put a little fill in details of my ride down … while the T level was declining the pituitary released large amounts of FSH & LH . There was a response by the testicular tissue and T was released. The concurrent weight loss released aromatase converting T to E. So for a period of time my T/E ratio was reversing to E dominance. Once that fire ran out of fuel the ratio flattened out to unmeasurable E and castrate level for T. Tada , breasts !
This time period was about 18 months. 
Now that this period is over other symptoms started to develop. This lead to discovery of a parathyroid tumor. We fixed this with surgery then discovered a way too elevated prolactin output. This known as MEN Type 1. (Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia) An MRI led us to a brain tumor called Prolactinoma. Eminently treatable with chemo. All 3 of these conditions have a risk of osteoporosis. I feel that the risk is compounded in me an am currently trying to convince the Endocrinologist to add a sex hormone as a prophylactic to the risk. Offered T but the cardiovascular risk factors are elevated for me at 73. HTN etc. I voted for low dose E but she wants to wait for a year and do a DEXA scan. If there is loss then Rx with biphosphenates. I am not a fan of Waiting to fix a problem when there is a preventative now. I have enlisted a Primary Care doc to listen and did my due diligence on the situation. There is a little known blood test to measure the osteoclastic activity and he approved the exam. Waiting for results. Osteoclasts tear down bone calcium, osteoblasts build bone density. It usually stays in balance to age 30 then slowly moves to clastic side as we age. In many circumstances of disease the process accelerates. That’s me , in a triple threat. So goes the world.
So Evolver, the hot flashes are horrid but I have found a high phytoestrogens intake helps a lot, and so would low dose E. Hopefully the resistance of hormonal therapy by the Endocrinologist will be reconsidered by showing excessive osteoclastic activity.
Wow, TMI, sorry.

[42CSurprise!]

I'm glad that fast cars, macho cars, muscle cars etc. has been brought up.

I hope I can word this right and that it makes sense. A couple of years ago I went through a period in my life which I can only describe as an awakening. It actually began on this forum ( ) and it resulted in my journey towards self-acceptance. The main thing I couldn't reconcile in my mind, however, was the feeling that the only way I could let my inner woman run free would be to push my masculinity aside to make room for her...but I didn't want to! This left me confused, and it took me forever to realize that feminine people, regardless of whether they are AMAB or AFAB, can enjoy fast and loud cars, football, outdoorsy stuff etc. just as much as masculine people. So, I no longer feel guilty for owning a relic muscle car. I don't drive it often, and I don't drive it fast very much, but I do fully exploit the natural law of acceleration, lol.

Day to day, I much prefer driving my wife's Mazda CX-5. It is very comfortable and makes me drive in a calmer manner.

Since we all live on a continuum regarding gender there is no reason to believe acknowledging we now inhabit a more feminine position on that continuum means our appreciation and enjoyment of things we believe are associated with masculinity would disappear.  My guess is it will change however... as you imply with your comment about your muscle car.  At one time that may have predominated your interest, but now it appears to be less important.  It seems we're becoming a bit more rounded individuals, with a capacity for empathy as well as a passion for sports, as an example.  I've been doing more cooking of late and finding it less a frustrating intrusion on my day than something I enjoy.  I feel the same way about keeping my home a pleasant place in which to live.

I do know that when I bought a Toyota Camry XLE with a V-6 engine many years ago I had to press the pedal to the metal.  I was delighted at the surge of power... but I never do that any longer.  Once was enough... actually twice because I had to show a buddy how quick that vanilla vehicle is.  And I still follow development of autos... like the mid-engine Corvette and the Plaid version of the Tesla that demolishes everything on a drag strip.  And I'm wearing a brassiere because I have rather sumptuous breasts.  Go figure!

[Sophie]

I love ❤️  this group so much and the fact that we communicate so well and are able to share our feelings and our stories and experiences. It really reminds me of the conversations that I have with the ladies during our lunch breaks. I hope that none of you take offense to that. I truly mean it as a sincere compliment. 

I know for myself, I was a much more open person not long after starting work at the Breast Care Center. The ladies always tried to include me. Eventually, they tore down the walls of masculinity that I hid behind. I opened up and I became a full participant in the girl talk. I was letting myself become who I always was. It wasn’t a huge shock to them when I came back to work as Sophie. 

I've always felt that I was a woman. I told myself that I had gynecomastia because that's what society called it. I knew in my heart that I had breasts, like any other woman. I also used my shape as an excuse for wearing ladies slacks and tops. All along, it's what I wanted to wear and was happy wear them. My wife knew this and suggested that I try wearing skirts and dresses around the house. I quickly got used to this and added makeup as my long hair grew longer during covid while working from home. 

Ok, ive rambled long enough, I think most of you know the rest of the story.

Be Bold, Be Brave, and most of all, Be You!!!!

Love 
❤️Sophie❤️ 

[Justagirl💃]

Yes Sophie, It is much like talking with the 'girls' here!

Today I had a conversation about guys looking down our blouses as the CNA brushed my hair and put a ponytail in it. 
How sometimes it's what we wanted to achieve, and other times it's just grose when they do it. Typical girl talk. 

The conversations fall within that category here in this forum as well, stuff you wouldn't say in front of alpha males working on a case of beer while watching a football game. 

The estrogen dominance brings out the softer more understanding side of people, even those that consider themselves to still be masculine. 

Some of the struggles of women become something that guys here will also deal with regardless of how macho they might still feel as well. 

We can comfortably share our stories here. 

Birdie 💞

[Parity]

It is nice to be able to talk freely.  I have learned so much.  Honestly The biggest thing for me was learning I'm not alone.  I too did the fast car thing and the classic corvettes but always got along with the women talk.  The cars went and I much prefer a nice dinner party or dinner and a show.  I know wherever I go I find women talk with me freely, as I do with them.  Much more than "man" talk.  I feel they sense I belong in that world also.  I did a long 9 week backpack trip across Europe a few years ago.  I have many, many women friends around the world I met that I still talk with.  Some I have met again to catch up.  I was always one they could open up to and many shared very personal stories with me.  I guess I wasn't seen as a tough guy but rather a caring sympathetic person.  I was always the one to cook in the hostels with them also.  A glass of wine, some cooking, laughing and...talk.  I can't say that as much for the men I came to meet. 

All we talk and have shared over time here, has really allowed me to better understand, me. I like and except  me!

[Evolver]

WPW717 - Bob, it wasn't TMI. I'm so glad that you are right on top of your situation. Education helps, and I hope that you can convince your team to give you a low dose of E to alleviate your symptoms. You are experiencing them just like menopausal women do for exactly the same reason. There should be no barrier to you receiving the same treatment! And I wish you continued good luck with everything.

42C - Yes, I now know that there is room for enjoying stuff that society deems as non-conforming, if only we allow ourselves to do so. It took me too long to realize this, but at least I am enjoying it now!

Sophie - You're not the only one enjoying the comfort to be found here, through shared experiences etc. It just goes to show how much we all have in common, even though we all tread different paths. We have found our tribe! I know that people often use the word 'literally' falsely, but honestly, this forum has literally changed my life. It truly is a heartwarming feeling. I continually glow internally. Oh, and with Covid - after 20 years of buzz cuts (I had a mullet before that), the restrictions meant that I did let my hair grow for about 6 months during that time. I liked it! Once the restrictions were lifted, I got a buzz cut again because it was more functional at work, and I hated it! It was after that that I decided to let it grow out, which roughly coincided with the same time as my awakening. So Covid restrictions were good for me in a way, because it enabled me to take a peek at my future self! And, look what they did for you too!

Birdie - Like I said above, we have found our tribe here, and it does bring comfort. Other places do that too, as you know. Isn't it funny how as humans, we always seem to progress to where we need to be! It feels so natural now to be in contact with people who I couldn't even imagine being in contact with a few years ago.

Parity - There is a good dose of catharsis to be had from telling our stories here. It is good to write them, and it is also good to read them because as you say, it shows that we are not alone. We all feel the love and it makes us feel better about ourselves.