Drugs available to lower estrogen and raise Testosterone?

[atlas21]

Hi all

I was wondering what drugs are actually available, prescribed or over the counter that can help reduce estrogen and raise testosterone levels?

I've seen talk on here of aromatize inhibitors being better than estrogen blockers???

Also heard that androstenediol and something called anrdogel can increase testosterone.  Does anyone have a professional opinion regarding these, do they help?

I am suffering from both low testosterone and high estrodiol levels, ie low sex drive, low stamina and low well being but prominent breasts and thighs and backside that could rival J Lo's.  Obviously not what i'm after but no point doing the op when hormones are up the spout so to speak.

Test results from endo no.2 below if someone can please interprit. 

Test Results are as follows (Done in Spain so had to translate) -

Prolactin 11.9 ng/mL
Progesteron 0.9 mU/mL   (Range for a man is up to 1.0 so this is high)
17-Beta Estradiol 56 pg/mL   (Range for a man is up to 50 pg/mL so already above that)
LH 3.5 mU/mL    (Range is 1.5 to 34.6 so this is very low)
FSH 2.8 mU/mL   (Range for a man is 1.4 to 18.1 so again, mine is very low)
Testosterone (think it's free test.)  17.20 pg/mL   (Range is 9 to 47.  read on the wellman clinic site that 17.2 is about the same as a 70 year old man, 1'm 34 dam it!!)

Any ideas anyone and many many thanks for any help.

[RyanMace]

Estrogenblockers: Nolvadex, clomid, letrozol(?)


Aromatize inhibitors: Armidex


If u got any problems with ur hormone levels, I'm sure ur doctor will prescribe u something. Donät start messing with these stuff urself, as it can actually make it worse.

[atlas21]

Hi Ryan

Thanks for the advice, I willl research further Armidex.  I've had it with Endo's and doctors who don't have my affliction and do not see it as a problem.  They don't seem to be trained to view this as a very real and stressful problem for the affected.  Obviously, it's not life threatening and thank god for that.  All I'm after, much like most is to feel like a man and look normal.

I am looking for a friendly endo who can help and am willing to pay but have yet to find one, if anyone knows of one in the UK then please let me know.  Also, the endo's and the kind supporters on this site seem to say that even with professional help, it is trial and error for a while before correct doses can be acheived and the measure of this is through physical symptoms and
blood test results.

in the mean time, I have to do something so am researching all possible avenues.  I think if someone had to self medicate then it can be done as long as one recieved regular hormonal blood tests to gage the results and took any medicine in very small doses to start.  Also, only one factor at a time can be measured so it's a long process.

Intelligent Bodybuilders (the few older ones) have been doing this self medication for years and some know so mcuh more about body chemistry than these government trained doctors.  I am not a body builder and have no wish to put steroids in my otherwise healthy body, however, I think that if one could learn the processes of what happens in the body when additional substances are introduced, then this could represent a new avenue for those who wish to resolve hormonal problems before undertaking the high cost of surgery should they not get the satisfaction that specialists are meant to give.

Any comments most welcome and Ryan, thanks very much for your reply.

Cheers.

[skyhawk]

Atlas, You definately need a good doctor that understands male hormone therapy. They are hard to find since TRT is reletively new on the medical front.

I have found excellent help from a hypogonadism yahoo group. I have learned the importance of lowering estradiol. Since I can't afford Testosterone replacement therapy, I have done what I can with natural over the counter products.

Somewhere on this site I scoffed at a post that recommended cruciferious vegetables to alter hormone profile. I was wrong. The poster was right.

Through the help from the group, I am currently taking zinc, and DIM which comes from these vegetables. I also eat the veggies too. This metabolizes Estradiol ( E2) from the body lowering E2 levels. Since Testosterone and Estradiol compete for the same sites to bind to, this frees up Testosterone to bind instead of Estradiol.

The results: I  have gone from sexually dead to sex 2 times per week. It feel great to have wood in the morning. It has done nothing for the gyno, but at least this is a start.

As far as androgel goes. Its what gave me gyne in the first place. Gels are notorious for converting to estradiol. You have to do something to control E2 levels when on Testosterone therapy or feminization will most likely occur.

Here is the yahoo group link. Take care.

 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2/

[skyhawk]

Oh, to answer your question about test results. Those numbers show LH and FSH to be low which indicates secondary hypogonadism. LH and FSH are secreted by the pituitary gland to tell the testis to make testosterone. If LH and FSH are insufficient, the testis fail to produce enough testosterone.

[atlas21]

Dear Skyhawk

Exelleng stuff, Very interesting, thank you. I will check out that yahoo group link you posted.  I am currently studying the role of natural supplements that are widely available rather than black market drugs.  It is interesting to see your findings.  Thank you so much.

I have also heard that a largely (green) vegetable diet and fruit can help and that although much protein is required for a balanced diet, especially for my body shape (endomorhic) a reduction in mass produced meats and fish is also a benefit.  Much of these factory grown items contain so much estrogen in the growing process, it can only harm us rather than help.  However, the cost of organic grass fed animal protien can sometimes be prohibitive on a weekly bais for the normal average earning man such as myself. Also, fish is not much better, as these days, it is also factory produced with large amounts of mercury (fish farms).  But I was unaware of the link between crucifirious begetables and estrodiol receptors.  That is great.  Looks like I'm turning vege after all.

Anyway, slowly, we're getting somewhere.  Ok,I am currently researching the role of the following items.  All  are supplemtns (tablets, soft gel capules etc)  IE.  they all have to be processed by the liver and therefore their potency is reduced if not completly destroyed by the liver and the processing puts some strain/damage on the liver as it has to spend time processing these foreign objects rather than it's main role of destroying natural toxins.

The following I have read about and heard can help increase testosterone:n -

PS.  I am no doctor, just an amatuer test suibject, please do not read into this as proof. What I am about to test on myself should be a case study rather than a go ahead fr anyone who has not carried out thier oen research.

That said.  Here is my research for me (Natural available substances) and my problems (ONLY) YOU are different!

First, the normal stuff we should all do -

Reduction in alchol consumption (Booze is estrogen building, trust me, I was a big drinker for 16years, they say it has little effect, they are wrong)

Excercise -Massive reduction in fat seems to also reduce estrogen, I lost a lot of weight in my late 20's and although not tested, my sex drive seemed to pep up a little and my body shape changed (not ideal, the problems were still there but the reduction in fat meant I looked a bit more normal and felt better, still had to hide the small breasts and nipples behind large button shirts rather than t-shirts).

Next the hard stuff that seems to help me -

tribulus terrestris 250 mg daily
yohimbe - 250 mg daily
muira puama 100 mg daily
Saw Palmetto - 200 mg daily
Ginko Biloba 80 mg daily
ginseng - 80mgn daily
ZINC - 30 mg daily
B Complex infc. niacin
chyrysin

DHEA 50 mg daily

these seem to help me, and no, I am not assocaited in any way with the manufacturesrs of these products.  I read iit in a book and started taking these.  it's costing me a small fortune but still cheaper than testo injections or patches.

Anyway, that's my two pennies worth.  What do yu think?

[skyhawk]

Atlas,

Fat cells convert Testosterone into Estradiol. Overweight men tend to have higher Estadiol (E2) levels. This may be one reason you felt better when you weighed less. ( one of many reasons)

The zinc you took was a smart move. But be sure to take 2mg of copper with each 50mg of zinc. Why? Because zinc supplementation will deplete copper.

Sometimes testosterone replacement isn't whats needed. In certain cases it may just be a need to lower E2 levels. Some of the guys report success with this.

You have some good baseline labs to start with. At least you know your numbers.

You may have heard of Indole -3- carbinol. Its the ingrediant in broccoli, brussels, cabbage, etc that metabolizes estragen from the body. Thats the DIM I was talking about. Same thing. You get it in those veggies and concentration doses in a pill form.

You mentioned fish. Wild Salmon is essentialy mercury free and contains healthy balance of fats. I highly recommend this.

This will blow your mind. Maintain adequate cholesterol levels. Why? Because ALL your steriod hormones are manufactured from cholesterol. Zap your cholesterol-Zap your testosterone.
The truth always comes out in the end. Never fails.

But you really need to find a qualified doctor to treat you. What part of the world do you live?

[skyhawk]

Atlas, I just reviewd your lab numbers a second time. I certainly see secondary hypogonadism with elevated Estradiol. Thats just my interpretation. I am not in the medical field.

This is treatable. You can bring T levels up and get those E2 levels down. Hang in there Friend.

[matthew1]

Atlas, You definately need a good doctor that understands male hormone therapy. They are hard to find since TRT is reletively new on the medical front.

I have found excellent help from a hypogonadism yahoo group. I have learned the importance of lowering estradiol. Since I can't afford Testosterone replacement therapy, I have done what I can with natural over the counter products.

Somewhere on this site I scoffed at a post that recommended cruciferious vegetables to alter hormone profile. I was wrong. The poster was right.

Through the help from the group, I am currently taking zinc, and DIM which comes from these vegetables. I also eat the veggies too. This metabolizes Estradiol ( E2) from the body lowering E2 levels. Since Testosterone and Estradiol compete for the same sites to bind to, this frees up Testosterone to bind instead of Estradiol.

The results: I  have gone from sexually dead to sex 2 times per week. It feel great to have wood in the morning. It has done nothing for the gyno, but at least this is a start.

As far as androgel goes. Its what gave me gyne in the first place. Gels are notorious for converting to estradiol. You have to do something to control E2 levels when on Testosterone therapy or feminization will most likely occur.

Here is the yahoo group link. Take care.

 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2/

great yahoo site

   I   am waiting for test result  from an endo I hired,  i will post here when I get them. I was 18  when I reached  puberty

[atlas21]

Hi Skyhawk

thanks for all the info.  I live in Spain now but travel to the UK (my home country) quite a lot. I did see a UK Endo but he was NHS and just said my test results were in the normal range, did n't even explain the results to me. The spanish endo at least gave me thes results on paper with ranges for each test.

You mentioned that ALL your steriod hormones are manufactured from cholesterol, so we need to keep this up.  What do I eat to keep cholestrol up to a reasonable but not health threatening level.  Also, would this not keep estrodil up as well as Testosterone?

Also, will DIm, Zinc and the other supplements I mentioned along with fat loss, no booze, excercise and a largely vegetarian diet help increase FSH and LH?

Thanks.

[skyhawk]

Atlas, the zinc is a natural aramotase inhibitor to keep T from converting to E. The DIM takes the E already in the body and metabolizes it out via the kidneys and urine. Stopping all alcohol can only benefit the hormonal balance. Exercise does benifit as well. But if I were you I would be asking the question why is my LH and FSH so low?

First, I would check thyroid to see whats going on there. Second, You might want to rule out pituitary tumor. It wouldn't hurt to check your lipid profile since High cholesterol and Tryglicerides are a symptom of an underlying metabolic problem in the endocrine system.

I really recommend the Yahoo group link I gave you above. It is already changing my life for the better. They can help you more than me. Meanwhile, below is a link that is very informative about male Testosterone replacement therapy.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Read this carefully and You will be miles ahead of your doctor.

The hawk.

[atlas21]

Wow, Skyhawk, that article is brilliant.  It all makes a lot of sense.  I'm nearly there.  Will check out yahoo group to see findings on increasing LH and FSH.

Everyone should read that article.

Thanks.