my story.....good read

[crager]

(mods please do not move this topic)

of course i wanted to entitle this thread "important, please read", or something along those lines. but everything anyone has to say on this board is important, and nothing less than.

we are all here for a common reason.

i'd like to share my experience.

i was first introduced to gyno after my 2nd or 3rd steroid cycle.

i had it bad enough to have glandular tissue about the size of half dollars underneath my nips. it was terrible.

i would find myself subconsciously contracting the musculature in my upper back, particularly the trapezius area to compensate the "boobage" that hung from my chest. actually, i shouldn't say 'hung', for my nips never hung.....but rather, protruded.

all the times when i could have been at the beach...but wasn't.

all the workouts i missed....figuring what was the point of lifting and trying to live a life of fitness, if no matter how hard i dieted or trained.....i would never get past my gyne - like kicking a dead horse.

my mom, finally chimed in and offered to pay for the surgery. i was maybe 21 at the time.

my surgeon was dr. schmidt, out of sarasota,fl. DO NOT USE HIM.

after the initial consultation, a surgery date was set, and i was more than clear with him as to what i expected....and if he could not do 'this', than it would be no problem for me to find another doctor.

i expected glandular tissue removal via scalpel, then lipo, and of course, talent...in the department of stitchwork.

a few days after the surgery i was flabergasted to find that this doctor has not even touched the glandular tissue with a scalpel, but rather used a ultra-sonic lipo technique to break up whatever bit of tissue he could, and of course sucked it out. the only problem with that is.......lipo, in my case, would have been the second step. first was to come the scalpel, second, the lipo.

no kidding, he may have removed 15-20% of the tissue that was supposed to be removed entirely.

talk about pissed right.

after some time, i went back and gave him a piece of my mind. he said he knew i was upset with him, and he didn't want to give me a concave, indented look to my chest.

i know my body...and this wouldn't have happened. even if it would have happened, i would have had a solution for it. diet & exercise. i can literally melt fat off of my body.

anyways, he offered to do a "revision" of the first surgery. i accepted, although i should have requested the full four grand back.

and this is what gets me...he still didn't fully remove the tissue. i still, to this day, have gynecomastia, and the scarring is horrible.

i suffer from chronic adult onset hypertension disorder, which i believe is stemmed from the gyne. like i said earlier, i'm always walking around like a robot, with super stiff shoulders, and even stiff movements to hide the gyne that lives underneath my nips.

not to mention the phycological issues that has gone along with this whole thing.

and not to mention having to undergo two surgeries, with terrible results.

it's now the 22nd of november, 2005, my birthday. and i've decided that it's time to go back and see what i can do about getting every penny back from this doctor.

i may seek legal counsel before >:(hand, or just tell him if he doesn't fork over my moms hard earned coinage that i will seek legal counsel.

or just go on the gumption that he will know that i am right and he is wrong.

to me, even agreeing to do a so called "revision" is admitting fault.

from what i can tell, he is a very humble, and conservative man.

i don't know...........any thoughts or suggestions. thanks guys

[Paa_Paw]

I do not like to seem nasty, but if I am reading this right you did the following:

1)  You used illegally obtained steroids without a Doctor's supervision.

2)  The dosage of steroids taken was sufficient to suppress your normal production of Androgens and allowed Estrogen to become the dominant hormone in your system between "cycles".  Feminization resulted.

3)  Someone else tried to help by paying for surgery to rectify the results of your bad judgement.

4)  You went to a surgeon of your own choosing without regard for their credentials or history of this kind of surgery.

5)  You had surgery with no clear understanding as to what type of procedure was to be done.

I can understand that you are angry,  but the guy you should be most angry with is the guy who you see in the mirror when you shave each morning.

Simply put, you did not do your homework.

We have many young men here who have Gynecomastia through no fault of their own, and they need and merit our compassion.

You, on the other hand, did this to yourself.

[crager]

I do not like to seem nasty, but if I am reading this right you did the following:

1)  You used illegally obtained steroids without a Doctor's supervision.

2)  The dosage of steroids taken was sufficient to suppress your normal production of Androgens and allowed Estrogen to become the dominant hormone in your system between "cycles".  Feminization resulted.

3)  Someone else tried to help by paying for surgery to rectify the results of your bad judgement.

4)  You went to a surgeon of your own choosing without regard for their credentials or history of this kind of surgery.

5)  You had surgery with no clear understanding as to what type of procedure was to be done.

I can understand that you are angry,  but the guy you should be most angry with is the guy who you see in the mirror when you shave each morning.

Simply put, you did not do your homework.

We have many young men here who have Gynecomastia through no fault of their own, and they need and merit our compassion.

You, on the other hand, did this to yourself.

it's alright brother....i don't take what you said as being nasty, or rude.....

there's some things i didn't really specify, so i can understand your reply.

let this be a lesson to anyone on this board who is considering surgery.

and no, i did not do my homework. my doctor was reputable.....for facelifts.....

[wolfman]

DONT USE STEROIDS  ITS NOT A SMART THING TO DO

[gynosucks1]

excuse because of his age .

u ignorent sillies

he could have easily been using prohormones

which were legal, and cause gyne just as much as the illegal stuff...

[gynosucks1]

i'm sorry but some of u need a little fucking compassion towards people who get gyno from roids.

not everyone who takes them knows the consequences.  ESpecially when they are on the shelf of your local GNC... Which they were up until a few months ago.

Point here is.. Prohormones were marketed as supplements.  A lot of people taking M1t didn't even know it was a steroid.. which it actually was, not even a prohormone.  The end result is cases of gyno, because people  taking the stuff didn't even know wtf PCT Was.

i would definatly save the bashing on the users, and more on the companies who sold them this kind of shit. .nad actually maketed for younger guys.


people who actually used roids.. i would say 99% did not get gyne.  PEople who get their hands on the real stuff know a thing or two about cycles/and the proper precautions to take.

[Hypo-is-here]

The reseach states that 25% of all gynecomastia sufferers get gynecomastia because of drugs.

It is thought a very high percentage of this number via steroid abuse.  How many people abusing steroids really know what they are doing?

I think you'll find it is actually very few people.

There are a lot of people out there with a small amount of knowledge who arrogantly think they know it all and the fact is a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Just think how many men abusing steroids have pathology?

How many can understand what is happening on an endocrine level via the results of assays?

Very few I think you'll find.


Mostly young arrogant poorly educated misguided men fuelled with testosterone.

As for men mistakenly taking hormones, that is very unfortunate and it is good if such loop holes in the law are closed so people do not innocently makes such mistakes.  However I think the bigger picture very much relates to people knowingly taking steroids.

P.S

I don't think Crager was offended by what people had to say, I think he saw peoples comments in the spirit they were intended, they were tough words, but honest and truthful ones.

[NEWB]

i'm sorry but some of u need a little fucking compassion towards people who get gyno from roids.

not everyone who takes them knows the consequences.  ESpecially when they are on the shelf of your local GNC... Which they were up until a few months ago.

Point here is.. Prohormones were marketed as supplements.  A lot of people taking M1t didn't even know it was a steroid.. which it actually was, not even a prohormone.  The end result is cases of gyno, because people  taking the stuff didn't even know wtf PCT Was.

i would definatly save the bashing on the users, and more on the companies who sold them this kind of shit. .nad actually maketed for younger guys.


people who actually used roids.. i would say 99% did not get gyne.  PEople who get their hands on the real stuff know a thing or two about cycles/and the proper precautions to take.

Thats exactly what I took M 1 T......was suppose to be a supplement...I have never and will never take illegal steroids...My dr. thinks thats why I have the puffy nipples,and I have since stopped taking it...I am new to all of this and dont know s$%! about it,seems no one here wants to answer my questions because maybe they think I took illegal steroids...which is not the case. All I want to know is will it go away because I have stopped taking it? Will my levels balance back out and how long?  

[daddynubbie]

I am continually surpised how many guys take supplements and other types of drugs without knowing some facts first.

Then we see the messages with panic " will it go away "
Who knows if it will go away, we are all different and any substance we put in our body could have so many side effects that it is impossible to know what might happen.

The same thing goes for standard perscription drugs, so many people just take stuff because the Dr. told them to. Doctors dont know what all the side effects to these drugs are. The fact is nobody really knows, and any person that thinks they have a drug all figuerd out is severly missguided.

There are deffinetly practical needs for all type of drugs, but we all depend on them to fix problems that eating a good diet, exercise and rest could do for us without the risk of unknown side effects.

If you are a young adult i hope that you take from this board that there are way to many risks to just take supplements because you want to be huge. When you are 30 and have boobs you will have a far different view.

Just go natural in as many ways as you can, do your best to not eat anything processed those are chemicals in there.

I am not being insensitive to peoples problems, we should all just be smarter about what we put in our body there is no downside to thinking before you act.

Dont allow yourself to be manipulated by creative marketing. Men want to be stong and in control but we let some fancy pants maketing guy sell us a suicide pill that they say is all natural and healthy. Dont be snowed and sold this crap, they want to make money at any cost and that includes you.

[Hypo-is-here]

Well said.

I think of course we cannot overlook the very real need for some medication, sometimes it is blatently obvious that only via prescription of a given medication will an individual be healthy.  As for side effects, it is possible with a great many medications to have a fairly good idea of the potential hazards as detailed in patients studies;

But by and large generally- yea....Well said!

[NEWB]

I understand what you said...but whats done is done...theres no turning back.We all make bad decisions in life.No one is perfect including you.I guess you never made a wrong judgement call on something and it came back to bite you in the a$$?Im sure you have. I came here to maybe see if someone else had the same problem as I, and to learn the outcome.I guess I made a mistake even posting here.I dont need to be reminded of my mistakes,I know what I have done and regret it.I should have done more research on the supplement.To be honest I wonder if that is even whats causing it,there looks to be alot of other things that could cause it.Maybe Im wrong in saying this,but I thought this forum was to help people not continually remind them of a bad judgement call. :-/

[crager]

what was stated above, and i should have quoted it, was absolutley correct. most people, young guys in particular are uneducated about drugs, or steroids.

drugs are not the end all to insecurities, or whatever the cause was for thier use in the first place.

i was however educated on the proper usage, dosing, and DID actually understand the effects even down to the endocrine level.

i was a bodybuilder, and still am. the only thing that's changed in my regiment is the drug use.

i no longer use AAS and my HPTA (hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular axis) is finally, after 2 years back to normal. or at least as normal as it can be. (thank god)

anyways, that's besides the point.

the point is, to anyone reading this, don't bother with drugs if you're in it for the short term. they do more harm than good and if you're looking to do a cycle, that one cycle that everyone talks about....know this; there is no such thing as just one cycle.

quit while you're ahead.

in no way, shape or form, did anyone in this thread offend me in what was stated above.

let this be a learning lesson not only to myself, but to others.

it's better to walk humble and modest, than outlandish and arrogant.

thanks.

crager.

[Hypo-is-here]

I don't think it is anyone’s intention to be unreasonable or judgmental.  I think the words are tough but truthful and that is how the truth is sometimes.

But I am sure everyone wishes the best to both NEWB and crager.

What is done is done, as they say there is no use crying over spilt milk and despite rights or wrongs we are all in the same place so to speak.

Good luck to both of you, I hope you get where you need to be and that you can put this issue behind you in the way you see fit whether that is via surgery or anything else.

Best to you.

[gynosucks1]

well both of you are much more likely to have your stuff taken care of with anti-estrogens

try raloxifene/nolvadex for a few months

[crager]

yeah, anti-e's can be usefull. i really don't need to use them now. if you guys saw the gyne i still have, you'd be pissed that i'm even posting here. i still have it, but it's nowhere near as noticable as many guys on this forum. maybe i'll try running 20-40mgs of nolva's for 6 weeks and see if that helps at all. peace bros' and happy turkey day.