Transgender But Not Transitioning

[Moobzie]

Words don't change reality - i.e., saying a circle can "be" a square, or a square can "be" round doesn't alter the facts.  Inventing a 'new' word, like squircal, and claiming that now squares and circles can "be" whatever shape they want simply flies in the face of reality.
I accept the (rather obvious!) fact of my gynecomastia - a term, a 'word', that describes biological males with breasts development like females.  Having boobs does not make me a female, anymore than merely 'thinking' a male is a female makes a male to be a female.
I don't care if people call gynecomastia: a condition; a disorder, an abnormality; or anything else.
As the adage from my youth stated:
sticks and stones
can break my bones,
but words can't hurt me.
(Unless I let them, and I simply don't let them.)

[Evolver]

I was talking more about words or language that are no longer relevant and better ones taking their place. Intersex is a better word than hermaphrodite for example, even though either word describes the same condition. Another example is the term gender dysphoria, which used to be known until quite recently as gender identity disorder. 

[42CSurprise!]

Words don't change reality -

You're absolutely right.  Those chromosomes tell a story... but then so do changes in our endocrine system.  We develop breasts ONLY because the hormone mix in our bodies is changing, often through reductions in testosterone that can come with age.  However, we know from men here that many of us developed soft chests, even breasts when we were teens.  Doctors said it was a normal developmental stage as our bodies came to terms with changes in adolescence.  But for some they never changed and their breasts got bigger.  They may have been "assigned male at birth" but their bodies were saying... "wait a minute."

Since there is no such thing as a standard male we understand that those AMAB will in reality land somewhere on a continuum from more to less masculine, less to more feminine.  Being on the feminine end of the continuum won't make us women... we'll still be men, simply feminized men.  Of course, none of this is meaningful for those with ambiguous genetics... people like Birdie.  So you may wish to talk about squares and circles but it is much more complicated than two simple shapes.  Estrogen not only gives us breasts, it changes our minds as well.  I believe I recall you saying something about it being easier to relate to your wife.  That is likely attributed to reduced testosterone which allows estrogen to have its way with you... we could say feminizing you.  You are a more feminine man now.  I imagine for some men that would be hard to take... for most of us it is a blessing. 

[Moobzie]

42:
"I believe I recall you saying something about it being easier to relate to your wife."

Think that was by another poster.
But my comments in my recent post were referring to how someone reacts to what others say - the gist was that we shouldn't let anyone else's comments impact us negatively.

[42CSurprise!]

...my comments in my recent post were referring to how someone acts to what others say - the gist was that we shouldn't let anyone else's comments impact us negatively.

I agree with you completely.  Unfortunately, men and boys living with breasts often feel shame which makes ignoring other's comments more difficult.  That is one reason why conversations on self-acceptance are so important.  That has been happening here for the last few years.  It is a wonderful thing for all of us.  Accepting who we are is how we begin, at last, to live more authentically in the world.  

[Parity]

Right on!  Call me out if ever I say anything that doesn't help others be better to self.  It's imperative we accept ourselves.  If we can't accept who we are and how we are we will never be able to live a healthy life and finding joy in anything.  If I have thinning hair, a mole, a skin tag wear a 40C bra or....  What ever it is it doesn't change who I am and how I live my life.  I love me and the body I have, consequently I can love others and life itself.
Be good to yourself, accept you & love yourself.

[p.r.1974]

Right on!  Call me out if ever I say anything that doesn't help others be better to self.  It's imperative we accept ourselves.  If we can't accept who we are and how we are we will never be able to live a healthy life and finding joy in anything.  If I have thinning hair, a mole, a skin tag wear a 40C bra or....  What ever it is it doesn't change who I am and how I live my life.  I love me and the body I have, consequently I can love others and life itself.
Be good to yourself, accept you & love yourself.

Agreed! Rule 1 is don't be a D%$#. We all do our best to navigate what comes up regardless of its nature. Many develop a thicker skin to maintain ones sanity in dealing with trolls, but this does not mean a free for a bully to tun their mouth. Responding to (feeding) the trolls is not worth the cost to calm, though I have imagined the ACME anvil appearing out of thin air above them, or a zippered mouth from cartoons past.

[42CSurprise!]

We've been doing quite well with regard to naysayers on this side of the board.  That is one reason that some of the deeper conversations have happened here... conversations that are really important as we find our way with bodies that don't quite fit the ideal of masculinity.  Of course, it is only in fantasy land that such an ideal exists.  People may aspire to achieve it and a few will have the heredity to live there.  I visited a market the other day to do some food shopping and there was a fellow on the sidewalk looking at his phone.  He was slim with narrow hips and a slender torso.  My body has NEVER been that.  At my lightest weight as an adult my waist was 34 inches.  I think I weighed about 140 pounds at the time... a weight that I never visited again.  My body has always been a bit rounded with a soft chest even hours at the gym didn't tighten up.  So there was no way I was going to be Joe six-pack.  I'm also not very tall.  5' 9" at my tallest.  I'm certainly not that tall now... shrinking in height as my breasts grow on my chest.  This is the reality with which I'm dealing... diminished testosterone with libido that has disappeared and genitals that are shrinking as well.  But I'm making the best of it... as are all the men who come to this website.  I have no illusion that I could win a battle with mother nature...  So I'll do my best to enjoy the ride... transgendered but not transitioning...

[Evolver]

But my comments in my recent post were referring to how someone reacts to what others say - the gist was that we shouldn't let anyone else's comments impact us negatively.

I also completely agree with this, but if only it was that easy.

I will use the transgender community as an example. I am not an activist for them, but an advocate. It has been well known for a while by those not blinkered, not just from this article but from many others, that there is an extraordinarily high rate of suicidal thoughts or attempts within the trans youth cohort.

From the article, “The lack of affirming adults in these individuals’ lives is absolutely one of the reasons that these mental health statistics are so off the charts..."

There is a direct relationship between societal expectations, espoused through the mouths of so-called elders, and bad outcomes.

We are comparatively lucky here on this forum in that we are, generally speaking, mature or elderly men who are less affected by negativity. Please spare a thought for those unable to do cope with negativity. It is unrealistic to expect people to just 'don't let words affect you, just suck it up' when those very words conjure up images of jumping off a cliff.

Prevention is better than cure. Ideally, negative comments wouldn't occur in the first place. This is a better scenario than letting them happen and feeling like a hero for being tough enough to deflect them.

Hey y'all, just be nice! 🏳️‍🌈❤️

[Johndoe1]

My body has always been a bit rounded with a soft chest even hours at the gym didn't tighten up.  So there was no way I was going to be Joe six-pack.  I'm also not very tall.  5' 9" at my tallest.  I'm certainly not that tall now... shrinking in height as my breasts grow on my chest.  This is the reality with which I'm dealing... diminished testosterone with libido that has disappeared and genitals that are shrinking as well.

I too am not that tall, topping at 5' 11" in my 20's but these days I am 5' 9'. As I have shrunk in height, like you, atrophy has shrunk other areas as my chest has blossomed. I have also lost almost all my body hair. Not that I was very hairy, but there was a time when I had dark thick hair on my legs, chest and arms. These days my legs are bare and chest is all but bare and my arm hairs are very thin and short and light in color. Almost imperceptible. This has occurred as my chest has blossomed as well.

[Parity]

42C and JD1, you have both stated that your not as tall as you once were.  I get it we all loose a bit in Ht as we age and gravity works on us.  I was wondering if there has ever been a connection with, or if there is a correlation with elevated estrogen levels in males and the loss of bone density? Does higher levels cause men to have problems like this also?  Or is it as simple as our body mass compressing our spine and disks?

[42CSurprise!]

42C and JD1, you have both stated that your not as tall as you once were.  I get it we all loose a bit in Ht as we age and gravity works on us.  I was wondering if there has ever been a connection with, or if there is a correlation with elevated estrogen levels in males and the loss of bone density? Does higher levels cause men to have problems like this also?  Or is it as simple as our body mass compressing our spine and disks?

Here is what the Mayo Clinic has to say on the subject:

Q. I used to be 6 feet tall. Now I'm 5 feet, 11 inches tall. What's up with that?

A. As you age, several changes occur within your body that causes you to lose some height. Some are normal and some are not. You have 24 bones, or vertebrae, in your spine. Discs between each vertebra begin to lose strength and become thinner as you age. When these vertebrae begin to thin out, you will start to shrink little by little. After age 35, the natural bone remodeling process becomes a bit disordered, and you break down our bones faster than you rebuild them, so the bones become thinner. You can help prevent this bone breakdown to a significant degree through weight-bearing exercise, such as walking, jogging, aerobics, weightlifting, resistance training, and a healthy diet rich in calcium and vitamin D. You also should talk to your health care provider about whether you are a candidate for osteoporosis screening through bone density testing.

Loss of estrogen can harm bone health but I don't think that is at play for those of us with sufficient estrogen to grow breasts... but that is simply a guess on my part.

[WPW717]

The loss of either sex hormones leads to bone loss. A particular concern of mine as both have dropped to unmeasurable levels. Gravity and age have also worked their magic. Was 6’2”. Now 6’ 1/2” . The recent labs this past week were bolluxed up again to give an incomplete picture of the current situation. Needed PTH cortisol ACTH and IGF - 1 . All the other labs show prolactin down to normal but Ca++ exceeding last fall’s level when a parathyroid tumor was removed. Instead it yields less info on the pituitary side but more mystery on the parathyroid/ thyroid side as the TSH Levels are elevated It looks like a recurring parathyroid gland tumor causing its symptoms again but complicated by known side effects of the pituitary chemo drug. Intense and constant joint pain. And other symptoms. I am going to need to show a doctor what a resolve an RN has to get back on track.
As far as the transgendering/ gynecomastia goes the breasts remain tender and seem to be fuller. Testicle pain is now moving to the forefront too. My HPG axis seems to be collapsing and no one is able to see what I see. To many docs involved IMHO.

[Evolver]

Correct.

From my research, the long-term use of an LHRH Agonist such as Zoladex or Lupron, which inhibits testosterone production to castrate levels in an attempt to starve prostate cancer cells, will lead to osteoporosis. Treatment for prostate cancer with estrogen will also knock testosterone out of the park, with the added benefit of eliminating the risk of bone loss. It was discontinued as a mainstream method due to cardio issues (now resolved by applying the treatment topically) and the unwanted (by most people) feminizing effects. 

Women experiencing the sudden loss of estrogen in their bodies due to menopause, will also eventually be prone to bone loss. It seems like estrogen is the single most wonderful hormone in existence. 

I wish you continued good luck with your journey, WPW717.

[WPW717]

Thanks