Gyno growth after diet change, did I do permanent damage??

[nobug]

So the bottom line is that for a week I took a supplement containing phytoestrogens (not roids, I didn't know it would be this bad). I have had puffy nipples since puberty and now am in my late 20's. After about a week I got EXTREMELY sore nipples, dull aches, hot flashes, etc. I have never felt worse from a hormone imbalance. I immediately stopped and have been taking a lot of zinc and trying to decrease my estrogen levels for going on 4 days now. My nipples are not sore anymore but they are still a bit sensitive. It seems like my gynegomastia glands grew quite a bit since I started, the glands feel bigger and they are visibly larger. Did I do lasting damage or will they go back down (to my previous puffy nipple levels) if I focus my entire diet and supplements on reducing estrogen? Please help!

[Dr. Elliot Jacobs]

Best advice is to lay low, stop taking any supplements and allow things to subside.  No one can predict what, if any, damage may have been done -- but only time will tell.

Dr Jacobs

[rrr]

What did you take? I keep reading that phytoestrogens normally have no effect - according to the professional medical community....
Bummed

[TigerPaws]

Everyone reacts to Phytoestrogens in different ways, it depends on your Estrogen sensitivity and you level of exposure.

The medical/pharmaceutical community often discounts what they have no finical interest in and companies use them because they are a cheap alternative to more expensive ingredients.

The "scientific" community is not interested in Phytoestrogens because there is no research grants available, largely because a negative result would be harmful to product manufactures.

What little research is available suggests that exposure is cumulative and that about all you personally can do is to limit your exposure.

Stop taking any supplements read up on Phytoestrogens and what are the most common products that use them in the manufacturing process.


Stunning admission that SCIENCE IS FRAUD: Medical journals more likely to recommend high-profit drugs when they are funded by Big Pharma advertising.


Read here

[nobug]

I experimented with a largely undocumented plant extract to boost testosterone. Was OK for about a week in and then all the estrogen symptoms hit like a wall out of nowhere, I guess it built up in my system over time. I stopped all supplements other than zinc and my symptoms have improved dramatically although I am not back at 100% and I still don't know if I did any damage. At this point I don't know if my glands are flared up and will go back to the way they were or if they will stay this way. I have DIM and resveratrol coming in the mail, will start taking those in a few days along with the zinc.

[Dr. Elliot Jacobs]

May I ask a silly question?

Why are you experimenting with your body to boost testosterone?  Realize there is a huge "normal" range for testosterone -- and not everyone has to be at the upper limits of that range in order to feel virile and manly.  If your libido is satisfactory and everything down there is working as it should, why not leave well enough alone?

Dr Jacobs

[nobug]

I have a physical job and wanted more energy. It was more of a case of "why not", I knew the risks. I just had no idea that my hormonal balance would topple, crash and burn as fast as it did. Literally went from fine to really bad within a day, zero warning signs (I was planning on stopping everything at the first sign). My guess is that the phytoestogens built up cumulatively until a certain level.
Now I'm going to focus on naturally reducing estrogen via zinc, DIM and resveratrol. The rest of my diet is pretty squared away. Thoughts on this? I appreciate your input.

[rrr]

You still haven't said what it was. It would be very helpful to other folks to know and avoid it.

Bummed

[cpa5oh]

My situation is similar to the OP's: an aggressive weight gain diet (designed to gain 1 lb bodyweight per week), a plant based supplement that was purported to 'optimize' hormones, some foods that I hadn't eaten much of before, and healthy oils got me a big lump under my left nipple.  
I switched to a weight maintenance diet and got on DIM: lump got a little smaller over a few weeks.  Then switched from DIM to tamoxifen for about 3 weeks: lump got a little smaller.  Then switched the diet to a weight loss diet, cut the tamoxifen dosage in half and added raloxifine: been 5 days and the improvement in the lump is much greater than I was getting day-to-day with the first two protocols.  I plan on adding a low dose of aromasin to the raloxifine because I suspect the raloxifine, which has a selective action on certain tissues (breast tissue being one of them), has caused my overall testosterone level to go up and with that my overall estrogen (general bloat is what has me believing this).  
I realize that using drugs to deal with this without doctor involvement is not a great thing and I can't recommend it to others.  However, all doctors (pcp and plastic surgeon) had to offer was "it's cosmetic and therefore not important and surgery risks aren't worth it" (pcp) and surgery (surgeon).  I have means to have the surgery done, but my summer schedule of recreational activities is going to make it tough to fit a surgery in (not to mention wearing a vest in the heat for 4 weeks) so I'm giving this a shot.  Anecdotally, bodybuilders have been using tamoxifen, raloxifine, and aromasin to deal with side effect of anabolic steroids and none of them are dropping dead...for me this is temporary (for them it's a continuous cycling).  
I'll update this as things unfold.  

[TigerPaws]

Using drugs even so called safe drugs is dangerous. I remember an approved drug Vioxx back in 1999, supposedly tested and safe.

That is until people started to fall dead, some 6,000 deaths later the truth came out the Pharmaceutical company Merck & Company had falsified the research.
You do as you see fit, it is your life, just do not complain if things go horribly wrong.

[nobug]

A small update, what I'm doing seems to be working very well. I ate healthy to begin with but I have pretty much reversed the possibility of any long term damage and I'm back to normal. Basically I've been taking vitamin C, Turmeric, Zinc, Resveratrol and  DIM as per instructions on each bottle. The DIM caused a liver detox which isn't a bad thing but I was extremely fatigued for about 2 days so that's something to keep in mind. I'd advise taking liver support pills along with the DIM if anyone wants to try this. I have also acquired some Raloxifene but I am on the fence about experimenting with it simply because I already fixed the problem and I don't really want to mix it with the rest of the stuff I'm taking. I don't have any hopes that Raloxifene would cure me of my well established puffy nipples completely since I've had them for many years so that's why I'm hesitant. I guess I'm lucky that I noticed the phytoestrogen effects suddenly in one week and it was not a long term thing, which could very well not have been reversible. Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted.
ps: TigerPaws, you're absolutely right that there is a real risk and this needs to be taken into consideration when trying to put drugs in your system, but it won't stop people from trying.

[TigerPaws]

ps: TigerPaws, you're absolutely right that there is a real risk and this needs to be taken into consideration when trying to put drugs in your system, but it won't stop people from trying.

You are correct people will do as the damn well please and nothing can or ever will stop that.

If by bringing forth a counter argument for not playing Russian Roulette with your health and possibly your life one person reconsiders the  choice then the discussion is worth while.

Experience is a very harsh mistress, one which is unforgiving of inattention and mistakes.

[Era]

If I ever saw signs of my gyno coming back I would instantly buy some letro and get on that pronto

[TigerPaws]

If I ever saw signs of my gyno coming back I would instantly buy some letro and get on that pronto

Why is Gyneocomastia such a dig deal? (Open question to anyone) Is your physical appearance that important? What are you afraid of?

What would happen if you were severely injured, disfigured and or maimed for the rest of your life? How would you deal with such an issue?

[rrr]

Why is Gyneocomastia such a dig deal? (Open question to anyone) Is your physical appearance that important? What are you afraid of? 

What would happen if you were severely injured, disfigured and or maimed for the rest of your life? How would you deal with such an issue?

Speaking only for myself, gyno is a big deal because:
Clothes no longer fit properly.
Boobs on a guy are about as subtle as a beard on a woman
There is a good chance rumors will fly that a guy with boobs is going MTF
Boobs are not the same as a severe injury - people will automatically assume you did not choose to be maimed. However, because of all the xxxxgender garbage out there today, people will mostly assume boobs are a choice.
This has nothing to do with moobs, because in most cases, moobs are just are another lump of fat to go along with all the other fat on an obese guy.
Now, do I really care what strangers think? No, I never have, unless it is affecting my ability to accomplish things - work, recreation, dating, socializing, etc. For me, those things are not affected, but for a younger, maybe single guy, I can see how they could be.
I am also not talking about cranial gynecomastia or puffy nipples, I'm talking about B cup + BOOBS.
Bummed and my $0.02