17 y/o...UPDATED PICS...tell me what you think

[llbean24]

heres the picture i first posted



Here are some updated pictures





Let me know what you think about what it looks like, what i should do, etc...

[wolfman]

i think u have a very muscelur chest with puffu nipples, i think u should talk to a surgery and get advice from a expert

[Blarneystoner]

It's so sad that he looks better than me and I'm post op  

[llbean24]

what about the shape of my chest in general, not just the nipples...is that normal?

[llbean24]

is there any way that the puffy nipples are just due to fat? or a lot of fat loss/gain in different intervals? last summer i was really cut and i noticed a tiny tiny bit of puffyness, and this summer i have put on some weight and it has gotten worse.  Im not sure though whether or not I just start developing gyne more in this past year or if it is due solely to fat, in which case i could get rid of the puffyness by cutting fat.

Tell me your thoughts...

[llbean24]

wow, thank you...i really think youre right about everything you just said...

[Pferdestärken]

With all due respect I think gynecomastia is any degree of development of glandular breast tissue in males. What is "woman-like"? Some women have completely flat chests, so that is a subjective and completely useless definition, in my opinion.

If you are happy with having glandular tissue on your chest as a man then fine, each to their own, live and let live, whatever.

Regardless of your personal opinion, the consensus public opinion (as expressed in locker rooms the world over) is that males should not have glandular tissue on their chest. If that bothers you, and you want to get the errant glandular tissue removed surgically, then that is an option which is available.

I lived with gyne for many many years, unaware that it was a medical condition which could be treated surgically. Had I been aware of the options I would have taken action a lot sooner. Would that have changed my life? Who knows, but I would have liked myself a lot more over the years. Who know how many foul moods have soured my relationships with others over time because I was unhappy? Respect for others begins with respect for yourself.

If you can come to terms with your condition without surgery then great, more power to you. I've never been that strong.

[doddy]

Rob, this entire website attests to the fact that the "woman like breasts on a man" definition of gyne is now seriously outdated.

I did not have "woman like breasts". However, I did have gyne.. or was my surgeon lying to me?

[doddy]

Well, that's just your opinion. If I was him, I would want surgery. Not everyone is as comfortable with themselves as you are.

[Pferdestärken]

Doh!

OK, here we go.

http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/gynecomastia:

Gynecomastia (gynaecomastia BE) is the development of abnormal breast tissue on men, small or large, and normally on both sides. The term comes from the Greek gyne meaning "woman" and mastos meaning "breast". The condition is common in adolescent boys, though in 90% of such cases the symptoms disappear in a matter of months to a few years at most; it may also occur in males of advancing years. It is generally a result of an imbalance in hormones, though there are many different possible root causes. Gynecomastia is not simply a buildup of adipose tissue but includes the development of glandular tissue as well. It may take a softer form or include a form of lump-like gland, which should not be confused for cancer.

http://www.healthcentral.com/encyclopedia/408/323/Gynecomastia.html:

Description of Gynecomastia
Gynecomastia is fairly common. It is a physiologic phenomenon that occurs during puberty, when at least half of males experience enlargement of one or both breasts. Pubertal hypertrophy is characterized by a tender discoid enlargement of the breast tissue beneath the areola and usually subsides spontaneously within a year.

Gynecomastia also is common among elderly men, particularly when there is associated weight gain.

This condition is usually temporary and benign. It may be caused by hormonal imbalance, medication with estrogens or steroidal compounds, or failure of the liver to inactivate circulating estrogen, as in alcoholic cirrhosis.

It tends to remit spontaneously but, if marked, may be corrected surgically for cosmetic or psychological reasons.

It can be the first sign of a serious disorder such as a testicular tumor. Medical evaluation is always indicated when breast enlargement occurs.

Less commonly, gynecomastia may be caused by a hormone-secreting tumor of the breast, lung, or other organ. Biopsy may be performed to rule out the presence of cancer.

It is more common, however, in patients with Klinefelter's syndrome.

Pseudogynecomastia is breast enlargement due to fat accumulation.

Pseudogynecomastia can be distinguished by physical examination. The examiner places the thumb and forefinger at opposite margins of the breast. The fingers are then brought slowly together along the nipple line. Enlarged glandular tissue can be recognized as a rubbery to firm disk of tissue concentric to and beneath the areolar area. The tissue often is freely mobile and may be exquisitely tender to palpation during the acute phase of development of gynecomastia.

http://patients.uptodate.com/topic.asp?file=r_endo_m/6297:

Pathogenesis and diagnosis of gynecomastia
 
Glenn D Braunstein, MD

UpToDate performs a continuous review of over 330 journals and other resources. Updates are added as important new information is published. The literature review for version 13.1 is current through January 2005; this topic was last changed on July 14, 2003. The next version of UpToDate (13.2) will be released in June 2005.

DEFINITION — Gynecomastia is defined histologically as a benign proliferation of the glandular tissue of the male breast and clinically by the presence of a rubbery or firm mass extending concentrically from the nipple(s) (show figure 1) [1]. Fat deposition without glandular proliferation is termed pseudogynecomastia (often seen in obese men). These two entities may be distinguished by having the patient lie on his back with his hands behind his head. The examiner then places his or her thumb and forefinger on each side of the breast, and slowly brings them together (show figure 1) [2].

In true gynecomastia, a ridge of glandular tissue will be felt that is reasonably symmetrical to the nipple-areolar complex
In pseudogynecomastia, the fingers will not meet any resistance until they reach the nipple.
Gynecomastia can usually be detected when the size of the glandular tissue exceeds 0.5 cm in diameter.

http://www.studyworld.com/newsite/ReportEssay/Science/Physical%5CGynecomastia-403170.htm:

Definition

Gynecomastia is a common disease of the male breast where
there is a benign glandular enlargement of that breast at
some time in the male's life. It usually consists of the
appearance of a flat pad of glandular tissue beneath a
nipple which becomes tender at the same time. The
development may be unilateral or bilateral. There is rarely
a continued growth of the breast tissue; ordinarily the
process is of brief duration and stops short of the
production of permanent enlargement of the breast.

I could go on, there's plenty out there if you bother to research. So, not my definition then, seemingly one widely accepted.

No, I am not a doctor ... more importantly, are YOU?

[Pferdestärken]

Yes, I understand logic. I make a decent living from it, and have the distinction of having been the only person in the last 30 years to have scored 100% in a large corporations IT aptitude testing.

Which is why I can see your argument has changed from the definition of what gynecomastia is (which I take to be an admission that of defeat), to whether surgery is the correct course of action.

I have not at any point "diagnosed" anything - read the posts. I have merely pointed out some medical facts. I think you came closer to a diagnosis yourself, Dr Rob. For what it's worth, I would recommend anyone who has has gyne in their teens to be VERY cautious about entering into surgery, as the condition can be transient at this age and is more likely than not to regress of its own accord. Not that I am diagnosing anything as I am not a doctor.

You have admitted elsewhere that you profit from individuals with gyne. Your choice, your business, but don't come here taking any moral high ground.

Yes, you're right, incidence is pretty common. No argument there. In fact in Haiti I believe its almost 100%, and flat chested men there are freaks. Note that here I state what I believe to be a fact; I have not said that IIbean24 should move to Haiti, which is where your "logic" presumably would take you and him.

IIbean24 lives in a society where the prevalent tastes and common perceptions make having gyne a stigma. To deny that frankly is absurd, and won't make you many friends here. Those who have lived with it, with the shame and psychological damage inflicted by an accumulation of humiliating and embarrassing social incidents over the years, know that to be a crock. You may be lucky, or just have a very thick skin. Most people aren't so fortunate.

This forum is not here to create an insecurity as you suggest. That insecurity exists, it is real, society imposes it, and it's what drives people here to seek advice in the first place.

You may get off playing King Canute, I'd prefer to advise people to move their towels up the beach. Sorry, that isn't the best analogy as a lot of folk seeking advice here probably havn't much experience of the beach, but its the best I can do.

[llbean24]

I agree with rob900.  It is boards like this that create insecurities.  Congratulations on your high test scores, im very impressed (...), but look at the facts, Pferdestärken.  This board is basically an advertisement for surgeons.  They want people to get surgery so they can put food on their tables, so obviously this board is biased beyond belief.  

Why would I get surgery? I can't speak for anyone else in any other situation, but for me, it seems stupid.  If you suggest that all men with larger chests get surgery, you are also condoning that all women with smaller breasts get implants.  I know you don't believe that you support that, but passively you do.  What about men with small testicles?  They must have gynecotestia.  They better get surgery because they are obviously less manly...

Even if I was vain enough to want smaller nipples, I still wouldn't get the surgery. I'm pretty sure big scars and misshapen nipples are uglier than slightly larger nipples.

[Pferdestärken]

I agree with rob900

Great, glad you're happy. Really. That's cool.

It is boards like this that create insecurities.

So you were forced to post here under duress? No? What you here for then?

But hey,

If you suggest that all men with larger chests get surgery

... did I say that? Where? You reading the same forum?

but look at the facts, Pferdestärken.  This board is basically an advertisement for surgeons.

That's an opinion dude, not a fact.

If you suggest that all men with larger chests get surgery, you are also condoning that all women with smaller breasts get implants.

Even if I had suggested that, that's some leap there fella, in fact its almost womens logic  .

Good luck, and goodbye!

[llbean24]

How is that a 'leap'? If you think a larger 'woman's chest' on a man requires surgery, then you would also be saying that a smaller 'man's chest' on a woman should require surgery.  It's not a leap...it's the attitude you are professing.

And by the way I am here because I am curious, not because I am insecure.  My manhood is not altered by nipples that are slightly larger than some people's.

[Pferdestärken]

Its a leap because its the equavalent of saying:

If A is true, B is false; therefore if B is false A must be true.

Illogical Captain. You have made several "irrational inferences" in logical terms. I'll list them.

a/ All breasts on a man must be removed surgically.
b/ Breasts on a woman must be different to breasts on a man.
c/ Breasts on a woman can only be changed by surgery.

I made none of these statements, all of which must be true to get from "a larger 'woman's chest' on a man requires surgery" to "a smaller 'man's chest' on a woman should require surgery". Not only have you introduced several irrational inferences, you have introduced a completely new variable- women!  I really hate to sound like a smart-arse (its not big or clever and certainly doesn't make any friends) but hell mate, you just aren't equipped to argue logic on the evidence presented so far. And I don't expect you to understand much of the above frankly.

I repeat, at no point have I professed the surgery is required. Please, take the time to actually read what I have posted, and understand what I have said. I'm trying not to sound condescending, but you aren't making it easy.

You seem obsessed with the sexuality of breasts, which is I guess tied in with insecurity about their appearance. All I have done is point out that there is a medical condition, which is documented and recognised (whether you or Rob choose to accept that or not, makes no difference), which can be diagnosed, and which differs from the "pseudo" (i.e. not genuine but having the appearance of) gynecomastia. One can be treated with diet and exercise, one may, and I stress may, need surgery to correct. And I AM talking generically here, not specifically about you. The decision as to whether any individual, having been professionally diagnosed as having the real condition, decides to opt for surgery is between them and their physician.

Anyone coming here and asking for an opinion is essentially asking "do I have gyne, or am I just fat". Those are the choices. Gyne or pseudo gyne. Now if you want to interpret either condition as perfectly normal and acceptable, great, but I ask again, why bother coming here and asking what people think if you genuinely don't care? You're not bothered if its gyne or psuedogyne, you're happy with the way you look, so stop wasting peoples time. Or stop trolling if that's what this is.

There are people who are NOT happy with the way they look, and they want to know if something can be done. You do those people no favours whatsoever by treating this forum as some kind of freak curiosity show.

Rob is entitled to his opinions, as is everyone of course. Especially when specifically asked for them (as in "tell me what you think"). But he started on the thread by claiming that the accepted medical definition of gyne is something invented on this forum, by surgeons, for their own financial gain. I think he knows that surgeons would not be at liberty to defend themselves from such an accusation. When I pointed to the overwhelming evidence that the definition of gyne which I had stated was correct, and not a fiction invented here, his argument switched to "well there's nothing wrong with it anyway". Cool, but why didn't he just say that in the first place instead of trying to mislead?

And why in his first post does he say:

I think the nips were puffed out several years ago from your pubertal "hormone war", which many many boys go through. Body fat percentage only has a little to do with it. They are getting smaller now, as the pics show. If you do not stimulate the nips, they will atrophy and become flatter as your male hormones kick in at their strongest around 19-22.

(which is the only sensible contribution he's actually made by the way) and then in his very next post:

This guy just has a little fat over his pecs, which will go away with lower body fat.

- a total contradiction of the first statement! And you're supporting this guy? He rants about my making a diagnosis, which I have not, yet posts:

He does not have, as you state, a "condition"

which sounds pretty much like a diagnosis to me. Has he examined you?

As I've said, and I mean this, if you are happy with the way you look then great, good for you. I would be too, there is very little wrong with your appearance. You are young, fit and healthy. If you do have gyne there isn't much of it for sure, and what there is will (as Rob originally said before going off on his own personal and entirely unhelpful anti-surgery crusade) most likely regress naturally of its own accord over the next few years. I have not, and would not, recommend that you seek surgical correction. Clear enough? On anything relating to you specifically I think you'll find both Rob and I am totally and completely in agreement. Which is evident if you read the posts fully.

I took issue with Rob's anti PS tirade, which in my opinion was uncalled for, unsubstantiated, and unhelpful. It was also a hijack of your thread for his own purposes. I challenged that, but nothing in my challenge related to your specific query. If you took offence at that I apologise, no offence meant, in fact nothing personal intended at all. To you. Good luck.