Got my labs about 5 minutes ago...

[dusty87]

Here they are, let me know what you think.  I had them done at 8am.  Does it matter if you were in the gym within 10hrs of getting the tests done?  I doubt it but thought id ask.  Also I know that I am missing a few tests, but these were called by the regular doc an not the endo..

umm i'm 20 and VERY active, train 6-10hrs per week.  Hardly ever see results...Cant gain muscle easily, soft physique, low cardio endurance even after 13 months of training...

Also, I do have gyne, pretty bad for my size IMO.  I'm 5'6" and 148lbs.  down to 135 when I'm in competition form...I was sick for about the last 3 months...so i put on a little weight     I plan to have surgey within the next 5 months, I need to get my social life back on track.

Testosterone: 559
Prolactin: 8.6
FSH and LH: 9.9

thats all i have for now..



Anybody..?

[Time_to_fix_it]

The results you have posted by themselves don’t mean too much.  You will need to post the lab ranges for each result for them to be interpreted.  More importantly is the fact that the tests run by your doctor are really not sufficient to determine the cause of your gyne.

These are the main tests that are usually run on a gyne sufferer.  Some doctors don’t bother with the Free Androgen Index as there is some doubt as to its reliability.

LH
FSH
Prolactin
Testosterone
Oestradiol
SHBG
Free Androgen Index
T3
T4
TSH

You have to be aware that gyne is caused by an imbalance of androgens (testosterone) to oestrogens (oestradiol being the post potent oestrogen).  Your doctor has NOT tested you for the oestradiol so it is impossible to determine that balance.

[dusty87]

I just paid my copay at the Doc's office, and she called for the labs, so they didnt cost me anything extra out of pocket.  Seems as though ill be going back again as I finally se the Endo tomorrow morning.

[matthew1]

how much did you pay for that test? I never gain muscle! I'm getting nervous man.

  check out  bodylogicmd   ,  they test  your  blood and have docs to  help with hormones

[dusty87]

Endo said it gland and fat so she wants me to get a mamogram too.  I am getting more bloodwork, but she still didnt call for the T3 or 4.  For a 20 yea old guy who puts as much time into training as I do I should not be covered in baby fat on my abs and chest, so I dont know.  FRUSTRATED!

[skyhawk]

Dusty, Everyone who posted here is right. You need that complete list of labs above.

When testosterone is low, it would be difficult to build muscle, and fat would develop on the chest and belly. For your age, I beleive Testosterone range goes to like, um, 1200 if i'm not mistaken. Yours is half that at 8am. T levels are typically highest in the morning.

Also knowing estradiol is important so you can calculate the Testosterone to Estradiol ratio. Its also important to understand that estrogens and androgens compete for the same sites to bind too. Therefore, elevated Estradiol, if you have it, could actually block the testosterone you have from doing its job.... Hence no gains from working out and developing manboobs.

   

[GrandMstrBud]

Here they are, let me know what you think.  I had them done at 8am.  Does it matter if you were in the gym within 10hrs of getting the tests done?  I doubt it but thought id ask.  Also I know that I am missing a few tests, but these were called by the regular doc an not the endo..

umm i'm 20 and VERY active, train 6-10hrs per week.  Hardly ever see results...Cant gain muscle easily, soft physique, low cardio endurance even after 13 months of training...

Also, I do have gyne, pretty bad for my size IMO.  I'm 5'6" and 148lbs.  down to 135 when I'm in competition form...I was sick for about the last 3 months...so i put on a little weight     I plan to have surgey within the next 5 months, I need to get my social life back on track.

Testosterone: 559
Prolactin: 8.6
FSH and LH: 9.9

thats all i have for now..



Anybody..?

Back when I went in for a consultation that I paid for they didn't do any testing. They pretty much had me watch a video about the procedure and then the doctor looked at me for a bit with my shirt off and that's it. Is this normal that they don't do any tests?

[AnonNZ]

I train very hard now too, around 10-15 hours a week. I'm starting to see muscle gains (slowly), but I'm living the perfect lifestyle. One slip-up by having the odd beer and it sets me back a week. I've got muscle definition everywhere now except my stomach and chest, which looks like baby fat. The ONLY way I can lose it is it cut back on calories to less than 1000 (I've tried everywhere between peak bodybuilding caloric intake (3000+) and 1000), but then my muscle mass deminishes with it. It's infuriating! I just keep attempting to build muscle but the area I most want to see results in, I see none! My testosterone is 542, though I'm not sure about free so I'm going back for a test. My doc is completely dismissive. I've just turned 23 and it's very depressing. I've had depression before and I'm convinced low testosterone is a factor. If you're the same as me you'll notice other subtle changes as well, which I also attribute to low testosterone. Avoid alcohol like the plague and get a LOT of sleep - also eat plenty of protein and make sure your workout cycle includes a lot of weightlifiting. It definitely helps.

Skyhawk, should our testosterone really be around 1200!? I was quoted as being dead average, though I KNOW he didn't weigh it according to age. Do you have any sources? I'd like to show them to my doc when I see him next... if I see him next 

[skyhawk]

Values for normal range of testosterone vary slightly from lab to lab. But the high end for someone your age would be like 1100 or somewhere in there. That does not mean your T should be 1100. But its nice to be in the upper third of your range in the morning.

I'm 50 years old, so my testosterone range will be more like 280 to 900.

[skyhawk]

I should add that Estradiol plays an important role here. Have this checked. Then take your total testosterone and divide it by the estradiol number. This will give you your testosterone / estradiol ratio.

My example: Testosterone 229. Estradiol 20.  Then take 229 divided by 20 = 12 (rounded up to the nearest whole number.) My T/E2 ratio is only 12/1 which offers an excellent explaination why I have gynecomastia, and little muscle gain with workouts. Needs to be 25/1 to 30/1 ratio for my age. Its the ratio that counts.

My goal: Increase testosterone to the 600 to 700 range while keeping estradiol supressed to its present value of 20.

Now, go get it checked and do the math yourself cause the doctor probably won't. 

[matthew1]

 Skyhawk, as usuall you offer excellent advice to folks here.
    I have  had 3 SEPERATE blood test. The last set through the company Bodylogicmd

  with a testosterone level of 357
  and a  Estradiol of  81  my  ratio  is like   4/1    which aint good

  I have started on testosterone cream , t3 tablets. and  Amirex  to block  adrogen
,

[matthew1]

One  note,  it is amazing  how many doctors   dont do the right tsting or  just dismiss the results. Most doctors  do not  do a fellowship on  hormones. That is the only way for a  doctor to  get knowledge on this
  Another thing, makes  sure  your meds  come a a biodentical lab. The lab I  use     is MEdaus Pharmacy    http://www.medaus.com/   they  actuall  mix  many of their on compound to get the specific strenth the doctor ordered.

           for any of you  that want to get  REAl hormone help I suggest    http://www.bodylogicmd.com/    , these  doctor specialize in   hormone issue.
      you got to have a few  bucks  though,   initial doctor  visit is  375 ,  follow up are 275. Phone consults are free.  All the test  cost  about 500 buck. Insurance pays for the  med. My HMO does not allow  out of network  visits so I pay doctors  myself. Fortunetly I have plenty of resources to pay  for the best of care.
      My oplan is to loose  some weight [  belly fat ]  get hormone  up to par, then get  these puffy frekin nipples worked on  by dr Magassey
           

[dusty87]

UPDATE:


Testosterone: 614    ...it went up a bit
Estradiol:        28
Prolactin:        8.6
FSH/ LH          9.9

Every time they give me lab results I think they give me less pages..?  whatever


Ultrasound said its a mix of fatty and glandular tissue.

I guess since the Endo said there is nothing wrong its off to get this S$%& cut out.  Or would you suggest a second Endo oppinion?

[skyhawk]

Dusty,

Your T/E2 ratio is 22/1. Not bad, but could be a little better for a young guy.

You might want to try this: You have a little room to lower estradiol. Whenever Estradiol drops, testosterone rises. Think of a tetor-totor like children play on. push one end down, other end goes up. Its a scientific fact.

Here is one thing you could try: There is a product called DIM which is derived from cruciferious vegetables and is available from the healthfood store. You can also increase consumption of cruciferious veggies. This will help metabolise estrogen from the body.

Zinc is a natural aromatase inhibitor which helps prevent the conversion of testosterone to estradiol.  a max of 50 mg zinc per day along with 2 mg copper ( zinc depletes copper) will also help. Start with a lower dose to see if that works.

The zinc and DIM + cruciferous veggies should lower estradiol and raise testosterone. ( remember the teter-toter)  You may notice a change such as increased erections. The kind that wake you up in the night. Morning wood is the best indicator that things are right with these hormones. You may notice better muscle gains from your workouts.

You only need to lower your estradiol a little and raise testosterone a little and you will hit a 30/1 ratio. This one is easy.

Good luck and keep us posted

[dusty87]

Just an update.

I go in for surgery this thursday.