Androgyny, hermaphroditism, coincidence? more indicators...

[taxmapper]

I've talked about this before, but over the weekend some interesting indicators were brought to my attention through an unusual reason. 

Because of the current political and military malfeasance taking place, I have put myself to concentrate on first aid, and other aspects for my own purposes. 

During my reading this weekend a point I did not know before:  That men's ring fingers are typically (though not universally) longer than their index finger and visa versa for women. But with women, the index is usually either longer or the same length. 
(Again, not a universal thing.) 

So out of curiosity I measured mine.  

Both of my index fingers are the same length as my ring finger. 

Another facet:  Though I have some fatty tissue and muscle tissue like anyone else, I don't have a brow ridge on my skull. 
Nor do I have a showing Adams apple. 

As stated before there are other physical aspects, and unusual going ons when I joined the Army in 86. (Like the multiple blood tests they kept taking and never told me the results.)   
When I was promptly booted (EPTS ( Evident Prior To Service)) out 36 days later; the folder that had my info had conveniently disappeared. I never saw any of the data. 

My pronation of my feet to the outside, the weird arch shape (which causes an unusual flat foot condition), and the fact that I can lobster claw with my big toe and hold things quite well thank you very much with my feet, along with the ability to pick things up with my toes; though not a smoking gun, still points to that possibility of androgyny. 

Again, not a smoking gun, but this is telling me that the boobs are more than simply natural testosterone drops.  


Has anyone else experience such? 

[42CSurprise!]

My ring fingers are shorter than my index finger...  I don't have a pronounced Adam's apple or brow.  My body has always been a bit soft and curvaceous.  I have very little body hair... virtually none on my legs.  Whatever that means, I think it is obvious that as with gender, we're all at unique points on a continuum.  That will doubtless be the product of heredity, socialization and hormonal shifts that happen naturally in our bodies... unless of course we are committed to moving the process along.

I'm not about to shave my beard or present myself as a woman, but there is no denying the breasts filling the rather substantial cups of the brassiere I'm wearing at the moment.  As a man whose hormonal constitution leans toward the feminine, I don't feel a need to argue with Mother Nature.  That is why I spend most of my time here on the Acceptance side of the site... with men who are coming to terms with the reality they encounter.  A term like "androgyny" can be helpful for those of us choosing not to transition.  I can keep my beard and enjoy my breasts... How about that?!

Glad I found other men who are exploring their own relationship with having breasts instead of flat chests.

[Passant]

I can compare everything written above with myself. My index fingers are slightly larger than my ring fingers on both hands. Adam's apple is not noticeable, I have little hair on my body, that is, I am almost hairless on my chest. I have a beard, but it is not thick, the mustache is quite rare. The body structure is not male. I have narrow shoulders, wider hips. I have a weaker muscular build. Ten years ago, I regularly went to the gym, took care of my diet. But there was no result. My strength did not increase nor did I gain muscle. This threw me into frustration, because the effort was in vain. I also have flat feet. Gynecomastia has been present for more than 20 years, but in the last two years my breasts have developed a lot. I decided to stop changing and finally accepted myself as I am. I took regular pictures on a monthly basis to track my progress when I went to the gym. These are pictures from 2006 and 2010. You can see the contours of the breasts, even though the gynecomastia was quite small. The resolution of the images is weak, because there were no stronger cameras at that time.

[taxmapper]

I can compare everything written above with myself. My index fingers are slightly larger than my ring fingers on both hands. Adam's apple is not noticeable, I have little hair on my body, that is, I am almost hairless on my chest. I have a beard, but it is not thick, the mustache is quite rare. The body structure is not male. I have narrow shoulders, wider hips. I have a weaker muscular build. Ten years ago, I regularly went to the gym, took care of my diet. But there was no result. My strength did not increase nor did I gain muscle. This threw me into frustration, because the effort was in vain. I also have flat feet. Gynecomastia has been present for more than 20 years, but in the last two years my breasts have developed a lot. I decided to stop changing and finally accepted myself as I am. I took regular pictures on a monthly basis to track my progress when I went to the gym. These are pictures from 2006 and 2010. You can see the contours of the breasts, even though the gynecomastia was quite small. The resolution of the images is weak, because there were no stronger cameras at that time.

You clearly have what appears to either be Klinefelter's, or another form of androgyny, because your waist line cuts above  your navel. 

Similar to you I have a navel that is near the same location, but COVID weight hides it right now. 

Its an odd feeling to have this and realize that you are in this place.   

As for hair, I can get nasty hairy legs that I shave because of the nasty ingrown hairs and pimples I get. Very painful.   

As for chest hair, very little for me except peach fuzz of sorts.   I don't try to grow the mustache or beard because I look worse than goofy. 

Other half I think is finally realizing I am not going to be her Viking god she wanted. More like a arse ugly shield maiden. 

[Passant]

I suspected Klinefelter's syndrome. However, I had my hormones removed last year and they were at normal levels. If my LH and FSH were elevated, above normal, and testosterone below normal, then he would be convinced that it was Klinefelter. Although doctors agree that regardless of the normal values of the mentioned hormones, only a karyotype test can confirm this syndrome.

No one in the family has such a physique, neither on the mother's side nor on the father's side. But it has confusing characteristics. Neither side is too hairy, my grandfather had gynecomastia, and his son, that is, my father, also has it. However, it appeared to them only in the late years, which is in a way a normal phenomenon in those years. I looked at their pictures from their younger days and they didn't have gynecomastia then. I recently turned 49, and I noticed gynecomastia 20 years ago. It is definitely a form of androgyny in my case.

The endocrinologist recently told me that my body is sensitive to estrogen and that I should get a karyotype test. Maybe I will one day.
I had complexes and was planning to have an operation. But when a person accepts himself, then these things are no longer important

[Rich meier]

very interesting. I checked my fingers and they are the same lenght

[Herbert]

My fingers are the same length also.

[taxmapper]

for anyone reading this thread without really grasping the whole finger thing... read this: 

https://phys.org/news/2011-09-men-fingers-longer-index.html

it also falls into play that the "hormones in-vitro" are part in part to us having the girls. 

[Rich meier]

for anyone reading this thread without really grasping the whole finger thing... read this:

https://phys.org/news/2011-09-men-fingers-longer-index.html

it also falls into play that the "hormones in-vitro" are part in part to us having the girls.

I had also read inan article that for women there navel is below the waist. mine is above. if you look at any lingerie ads you will see that is so

[Gino]

Great thread! 

My mom used to say I should have been a girl because I was short, had the ass, legs and feet of a girl and she even went so far as to illustrate it by her telling me to stand feet together and showing me that my calves just touch (her measure of a perfect model's legs) my feet point straight out and my toes are small and girly. Oh, if it's any indicator my ring fingers are shorter than the index, my smallish feet are men's size 6 1/2 to 7. 

I've always been drawn to an androgynous even totally female style of dress, partially due to the fact I'm 5'3" and women's pants and tee shirts fit better off the rack without tailoring, and shoes like sneakers, moccasins etc. are unobtanium in my size at the men's stores and now I mostly wear women's flat or very low heeled shoes.  

Add to this I've ALWAYS disliked my body hair and envied Asian, Native American, Scandinavians and even many Hispanic men who are either completely or mostly hairless.  

So, I guess I've been aware of my physically androgynous body and now that my gyne has erupted my body hair is lighter, thinner, and my legs are now nearly free of hair over the last year. 

 

 

[usetobeed]

My ring finger is longer than my index finger, if my palm is down. If my palm is up, my index finger is longer than my ring finger.

No wonder I'm confused! LOL

Ed

[Moobzie]

Anyone here notice any other changes with gyno?
My legs have changed drastically:

[JoniDee]

Anyone here notice any other changes with gyno?
My legs have changed drastically:

Yes, my body has lost it's muscle tone. My legs as well as my entire body are very soft.

Joni

[taxmapper]

Yup….  As per my previous pics, Im getting a VERY SLOW fat redistribution.  

Legs are starting to get that frontal curve to them.

[Evolver]

Moobzie, JoniDee, taxmapper - you guys have described perfectly what happens to the male body when hormones levels are out of whack. I have done far too much research over the last year or so about the expected physical effects of hormone therapy on my body which I expect to start next year for medical purposes, depending on test results. Soft skin, body fat redistribution, gynecomastia, muscle loss, thinning body hair, etc. etc., I've known about for a long time. For me, I can only speculate. 

There are several other changes that you guys are probably already aware of that might affect y'all depending on your actual hormone levels, but some of the unpleasant side effects only seem to affect those with low E levels. This is something that I will probably have to deal with too, because my E will be killed off with my T. Interestingly, the best way to deal with these unpleasant side effects (hot flashes in particular) is to take an estrogen supplement. Combined with my proposed T-blocker this would, in effect, put me on the same drug regime as folk in some countries like the U.K. take to transition. Interesting times ahead!

Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to make this about me; it's not intentional. Just letting y'all know that even though I'm not experiencing any dramatic physical involuntary feminization yet, I understand it.

By the way Moobzie - nice pins!