new to board-need help

[masterp]

hey guys, i was wondering if you could give me some advice.
i am 18 and have very low testosterone caused by primary testicuar problems. I dont want to go on testosterone, as it makes you stop producing your own supplies. Essentially i just want to find a way of getting rid of gyne. i have very skinny arms and legs but a big belly and some gyne.

Can anyone recommend ways to get rid of gyne without taking testosterone. I am thinking along the lines of natural products. My estrogen isn't particularly high, so i dont know if tamoxifen woud work- i just produce very little testosterone. I have been thinking about this new lypodisolve. does anyone know if you can get it in the UK.

I found that working out doesn't help, and the more weight i lose the worse the gyne looks as i am already pretty skinny. I am getting desperate but dont really want to go under the knife. is there a way to improve the effects of my natural testosterone, or burn fat more efficiently.  

I would be really greatful for some help.

[hypo]

Hi masterp,

If you have testicular failure as evidenced by low testosterone levels and a high LH level then you cannot increase your testosterone levels.

Aromatase inhibitors work by lowering estradiol which results in a rise in LH- the messenger hormone to tell the testicles to produce more testosterone.

But your LH if the diagnosis is correct is already high and your testicles having failed cannot respond to this high LH signal to begin with.

So if the diagnosis is correct the only answer is external testosterone supplementation.

It is important to know that low testosterone should be treated in its own right.

Untreated low testosterone/hypogonadism causes an increased statistical incidence of (CVD) Cardio Vascular Disease, Strokes and Alzheimer’s.

It leads to a very significantly increased risk of developing diabetes (about one third of all diabetics have hypogonadism) and osteoporosis.

What is your reason for not wanting to go on (TRT) testosterone replacement therapy?


 

[masterp]

hey my reason for not wanting to go trt is to do with my age. i am only 18, and i dont want to go on the gels for the rest of my life. Skinny arms and gyne are the only signs at present of low t. more importantly however, i have a really low sperm count, and prolonged use of trt will shut my own sperm and testosterone production off.

I am looking for alternatives to TRT, which will give slight improvments (i am not expecting miracles here, but a bit more body definition and improved mood would be great.

[hypo]

If you have true testicular failure/primary hypogonadism then your pituitary will already be trying in vain to elicit an improved testosterone level with a constantly raised LH level-

So if this is the case then you are indeed asking for a miracle that is not going to happen full stop.

If you have partial androgen deficiency then you might be able to increase your own testosterone level if LH is within the normal range.

What exactly are your LH and testosterone levels?

In terms of fertility, you might already be infertile, if not then you could get sperm banking and then go on TRT and gain all the benefits that can bring and still have children…….

Surely worth consideration.

If your testosterone is low, you may have many problems or at least future problems that you are not aware of.

I seemed healthy until I my arm cracked due to an osteo condition and then I was diagnosed with osteoporosis/osteopenia in my spine.

The reason not to go on TRT for someone with a true deficiency are far outweighed by the benefits.

You will also always struggle with your weight without adequate testosterone levels-

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/testvisc.htm

[aux513s]

Isn't it a possibility that TRT can cause gyno or make it worse? Hypo, didn't you develope gyno only after you started TRT?

[Gine2D]

"very low testosterone caused by primary testicuar problems".  PRIMARY is much different than SECONDARY

If the cause is secondary testicuar problems, & not primary, then ask your doctor to try HCG.  It causes the signals to the testicles to increase production of sperm & testosterone.  It sometimes increases the size of the tresticlres if they are small, less than 1-1/4'.

But if the testicles can not produce as Hypo indicated the you need testosterone gel or cream.  Compounded testosterone is usually cheaper than the commericial gel packs.

Low T causes many health problems.  Testosterone does not cause gyne.  If it is too high & some of it converts to estrogeb E2 then that will cause gyne.

You problem may be due to the ratio of Testosterone to Estrogen.  It should be more than 20:1.  If the ratio is way out of balance your body may think it is female & produce breasts.  Research is just starting in this area.

Good luck

[hypo]

In answer to aux513s,

I developed gynecomastia before I went on TRT, almost certainly as a result of what would have been a low testosterone to estrogen ratio.

I further developed gynecomastia on TRT because my estradiol was incompetently managed by the endocrinologist I had at the time.

So I guess the answer is yes and no.

It highlights the need to have good management of TRT and the need for individuals with hypogonadism to empower themselves with knowledge regarding their condition.

You can start here

http://www.androids.org.uk/index.html

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2/

The above is the best site in terms of answering issues that relate to estrogen which is fairly new to many endocrinologists and not covered so much in the medical links.

http://www.wellmanclinic.org/paper2.htm

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/testvisc.htm

I am on testosterone now- but I do not develop gynecomastia now, because A) I have a good endocrinologist and B) I understand how to prevent it from developing with correct dosing and regular blood tests to check all is well.

Also testosterone replacement in men with low testosterone has a mixed record, in about 50% of men it actually reduces and even resolves their gynecomastia as they get little conversion to estradiol.

So with good management of hypogonadism from a good endocrinologist there should not be a problem.

But what of the REAL issues of not treating!!!!

Not treating often results in osteoporosis, quite often results in diabetes.

These are very serious sometimes life threatening conditions and are far more important than the issue of gynecomastia.

Would you not be more concerned about the very real increased risk of (CVD) Cardio Vascular Disease, strokes, Alzheimer’s, obesity, clinical depression etc

I know these things are subjective but can anyone really say they would rather risk Diabetes and Alzheimer’s rather than the chance of increased gynecomastia from miss managed treatment?

That would be insane.

The best thing is to learn as much as you can about the condition, empower yourself with as much knowledge as possible, go and get the best endocrinologist who specializes in reproductive endocrinology and get on the right treatment-

Your gynecomastia might get worse it might or it might be reduced (see statistic above) reduced, but when you finally have the hormones balanced you can should you wish get surgery and it wont come back.

If you have the surgery with this imbalance- you had better hope that the plastic surgeon has removed the entire gland (which is something that few surgeons will manage to do) otherwise you'll be need surgery number two.

Finally what benefits can a man with hypogonadism expect from (TRT) testosterone replacement therapy if it is managed well?  

Improved stamina and energy,
Improved mood and an end to depression for many who suffer from this side effect
Improved Libido
Increased strength of Erections
Improved body composition
Greater strength
Improved cognitive functioning- including word articulation and improved spatial awareness.
Often an end to joint pain or back problems

That is for starters;)

[mikeyfive0]

Hypo, how soon after surgery can you begin testosterone replacement therapy?