astral projection

[Gynosaur]

People have completely misunderstood the "10% of the brain" thing.  Every bit of brain matter serves a function, but the majority of brain tissue serves a structural rather than neural function.  Humans have evolved such large brains that mothers often are injured or killed giving birth in places without modern medicine.  If our large brain size wasn't so important (i.e. if we only used a fraction of it), natural selection would never have allowed our heads to become (literally) dangerously large.

People go down an illogical path by attributing chances occurrences to telepathy or ESP.  We have all had those weird moments where we think of someone and they call out of the blue.  Or the time my brother started singing out loud the exact part of the same song I was singing in my head.  But think of how many more times you were thinking about something and no coincidence happened...these 'non events' far outnumber the coincidences.

This topic serves as a good example of why science is so important.  It is designed to discern meaningfulness from chance.  My challenge is open to anyone and everyone who thinks that ESP or astral projection is real.  I described the challenge in a previous post, now someone attempt to tackle it.

If we're all honest with ourselves, we will admit that no one will answer those questions correctly.  Mind reading is an illusion and not a real power.  If it was a real power, then its practitioners would be able to perform under scientific scrutiny.

[puffman1]

Ok, I understand perfectly what you say about the "10% of the brain". I have just heard it before and no one ever actually explained what it means, but what you said makes sense. I guess you could say that I am just "talking out of my ass".

As for the rest of my post, it is all just stoner/shroom thoughts I have had, and honestly who really knows for sure? No one. I'm not saying I definitely believe this stuff, but rather just find it interesting to read or think about. Of course the 'non events' far out number the coincidences.

And your challenge? Being a betting man, I would call it a "lock" that no one would even get one of those answers right. "Come on Jerry, it's a lock! A LOCK, Jerry!!!"

[Gynosaur]

Haha, well I wouldn't call it talking out of your ass.  You said you weren't sure about that issue.  I think that making stuff up and acting like it's some great truth is talking out of someone's ass.

Epic Seinfeld reference btw! 

[puffman1]

Yea I thought you might understand that for some reason. And no, not because I'm psychic. haha

BTW, I've been following your post op thread. When are you going to post the week 10 pics? I actually have my surgery with Dr. B on Thursday. I'm Driving up for the pre-op in the morning and really not looking forward to the whole experience, I must say. Do they do blood tests? Also, how long did you have to sleep on your back? And how long did you wear the stage 2 vest?

[carguy]

Ya just give me time. In the mean time since you seem like a smart fellow, I have a challenge for you. Phd's have a hard time with this so its not easy. Prove to me what I'm doing is superstition. What is a dream? Why do we dream?
When I had my mental breakdown and saw hallucinations, why did I see demons and vampires on normal peoples faces? Why specifically demons and vampires (grotesque figures)? Why do a lot of schizophrenics see the same thing like previously said?
What are the voices people claim to communicate with when they hallucinate?
Doctors only get as far as a "chemical imbalance." Look at the word imbalance. That means we are naturally in tune with this reality until there is an "imbalance."
Why do some people have the ability to control their dreams and most don't?
You have 3 days.
Think about this.. your eyes filter light and its frequencies to enable you to see this "reality." Read that again and it will blow your mind as to how we work. The brain/mind are very powerful. If you're eyes are closed when you sleep, then how do you "see" in a dream? Wheres the light coming from to let you see?
This is a good article:
http://www.astralvoyage.com/projection/reality.html

P.S. Im not the type to bullshit or waste my time on the internet making up stories.
Schizophrenia is what opened my eyes (literally) to paranormal things that can't be explained by psychiatrist or doctors.
heres a good website Puffman:
http://www.astralvoyage.com/projection/index.html
Don't knock till you actually tried. In fact I think you guys have done it before and not realized. If you can get into a trance (psychology/hypnosis term) then its very easy to do.

[Gynosaur]

Carguy-
The reason I don't believe any of that stuff is because there is no REPRODUCIBLE, DEMONSTRABLE EVIDENCE that the 'alternate reality' exists.

I will answer your particular questions to the best of my knowledge:
-Dreams are collections of neural activity during sleep.  I'm not a neuroscientist so I won't pretend like I'm an expert on dreaming.  Some people can control some dreams because they can control a level of semi-consciousness, where they can both stay in a dream and carry out intentions.  People can typically only do this in certain stages of sleep.
-Schizophrenics hallucinate because parts of the brain have abnormal activity.  Our perception of the world around us is wholly representative and not a genuine event-for-event input.  The semantics of a situation can affect perception, as shown in numerous psychological studies.  A mental disorder could involve hallucinating when certain stimuli, such as faces, are perceived.
-When dreaming, we aren't actually "seeing" anything.  Think of your favorite song in your head.  You can reproduce some semblance of "sound" without actual sound waves hitting your ears.  This is similar to imagining a neck massage, the taste of pepperoni pizza, the smell of rotten milk, or the sight of your own reflection.  There are parts of the brain that simulate perception, and these are responsible for the "sight" in dreams.

I'm not completely closed to the possibility of these things being true.  A good skeptic always allows the possibility that something is true, even if it is far fetched.  However, the more sensible position is to not believe something until given acceptable evidence for its existence.  For me, if someone could answer my 5 questions (or even 4 of them), that would qualify as acceptable evidence and I would believe.

Puffman1-
This upcoming Saturday will mark the 10th week after surgery.  I'll try to put some pictures up over the weekend.  My healing is coming along really well.  The surface scars are fading a little bit every day and I can no longer feel any deeper scar tissue at all.  Massage is VERY important, and I attribute my great healing to 2 things: never missing a day of massage, and being very good about wearing the compression vests.

No they did not take blood tests.  I  think he expects you to have some idea of the quality of your last blood work.  I think I slept on my back for about the first 5 nights.  I got fat flaps, which restricted my range of motion more than the typical patient who doesn't get them.  So I had very little room to move my arms without pain.  After about 5 days I was able to sleep on my side if I was careful to keep my arms in a certain position.  His general rule during healing is "if something doesn't hurt, it's probably ok to do.  If it hurts, don't do it."  It took about 6 weeks for me to feel like I fully regained pain-free range of motion. 

I am actually still wearing the stage 2 vest!  I wore the stage 1 for the first 4 weeks nonstop, then switched to the stage 2.  I wore the stage 2 nonstop until 8 weeks post op.  Since 8 weeks (now is 9 and a half) I've been wearing the vest at home but taking it off if I go anywhere.  I've still worn it every single night, and I plan to keep wearing it around the house for a few more weeks just to be safe.  Dr. B will probably tell you not to compare your own healing to other people's because everyone heals differently.  That advice helped me out a lot and I recommend you take it seriously.  If you heal faster or slower than me or other patients of his, don't think it's bad...it's just the way you heal.

How was the preop?  And good luck with your surgery!  You said you were following my post op thread, but have you read my post about the surgery experience?  Here it is http://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php?topic=20634.0
Hopefully that answers any other questions you might have had about my time there.  It was overall a very positive experience.  You'll be happy you chose such a good surgeon once it's all said and done.

[puffman1]

The pre op went pretty well. My surgery is at 1:30 tomorrow so I have to get there by 12. I just finished my last meal which was leftover olive garden and I know its going to suck in the morning not being able to eat or drink.

Carguy, here is something to think about. You talk about hallucinating and seeing demons and such, much like others with your illness. Do you think you still would have hallucinated demons if you were raised in a culture that had no concept of heaven and hell, or angels and demons. I tend to feel like you hallucinate these things not because it is some other reality or something, but more just because we are all born into a world that where there are stories and beliefs into these things. If you were born and lived in the woods by yourself and never had access to any type of literature, media, or other people, do you think you would naturally have a concept of angels and demons, what they look like,etc? I don't think so. It is all learned, therefore your mind just uses previously learned material in your hallucinations.

Also, if you really want to enter the dream land, try smoking some dmt. I have not done this, but it is a chemical found in some plants and it is also naturally occuring in our body. Scientists speculate that natural dmt in our body has to do with our nightly dreams, and also a theory is that when people are near death, the penial gland releases a large amount of dmt and is why people report a similar experience because it is a natural "trip" if you will. People that have had near death experiences report seeing and being in different scenes throughout their life and feeling the all the emotions with it, as do people who extract and smoke a little dmt today. Google dmt and read about it.

[Gynosaur]

Good point about the hallucinations, puffman!  That actually reminds me of something that was the topic of some anthropology studies.  Near death experiences vary wildly from culture to culture, depending on the prevailing opinion of the "afterlife" in any given culture.  People in predominantly Christian cultures tend to have one sort of experience, while people in Muslim, Hindu, and other cultures have different experiences.  Those findings completely support your idea about the hallucinations being the result of learned fears and ideas.

And the dmt thing...lol.  People who consume dmt talk about alternate realities and stuff.  Yea, it's just a chemical that will make your mind do some trippy things, but there is a whole subculture of dmt users who swear that it lets you connect to the life forces of the universe and stuff.  Maybe carguy can take dmt to help answer my questions?

[carguy]

Its obvious I am not an expert on astral projection and you are not an expert in science.
I told you before, I just started doing this consciously at the end of last year.
I literally woke up from a lucid dream and all of a sudden materialized in a whole nother place with the same conscious awareness as I have typing this.
I do not take drugs besides the one to keep me in check and have for over 5 years with no problems.

Sometimes I do wonder if I wasn't exposed to certain things, my hallucinations wouldn't be as bad.
There were things said by these "demons" that I would never tell anyone or myself. Like "chopping someone into pieces and throwing them in a dumpster" I was having conversations with these entities with real responses. That's how scary it is.
All I'm saying is that science cannot explain everything... yet. There is not even a cure for my "illness."
In fact, there are thousands of people with the same illness that never get better. Drugs don't even work for them so they are holed
up in a institution, locked away,forgotten about, and have to balance between both worlds under supervision.

I say the best thing is for you to experience it yourself.
I was told what my grades were gonna be and I got them (straight A's)
I have a bipolar friend who used to talk to his voices and they would tell him it was gonna rain before it rained(without looking at tv).
There are so many holes that science has not found an answer for.
Like I said the best thing is to experience it yourself. No drugs needed.
Another thing, there was a show on Discovery Channel on Tibetan  monks meditating. They were able to increase their body temperature till steam started rising and it was a very cold environment(forgot exactly what temperature).
My point is that there is a lot you can do with your mind that hasn't been discovered by science yet.
Astral projection has nothing to do with magic. Western science is not even as old as this practice which was prevalent in
Native American, Chinese(Asian), African, and Hindu culture.
I would love to participate in a experiment with this, IF I could actually do it consistently.
I'm starting to think that this practice is not for show and tell. There are a lot of experiences I've had that were personal.
We all walk our own path, but to the same place.
You'll find out sooner or later that life is more than we see.

edit: if you do try to learn this be careful about where from. There are some weirdos with agendas. I'm not into any new age/wiccan/magik/gnostic kinda stuff.
Also what I mean by I can't do it consistently is that I'm too busy to even think about it some days. But when I really try I can do it.

[carguy]

Another thing I'd like to mention about schizophrenia. The hallucinations are not just based on fear.
People have had voices that crack jokes. My friend had it bad. The voices would come and go but it would be it the same
personalities talking to him. They had names and everything.
Are you guys atheist or do you believe in God?

[gynedowner]

Astral projection is not fun. Do not attempt.

Source(s):
Astral Projectionist

[carguy]

I know where you got that from. Stay in the matrix and never know the truth...
This was an easy choice for me. Either go through life never knowing its secrets and blindly following what someone has told you OR actively try to find answers for your self.
Anyway I projected without trying and you do it every night.. its called dreaming. Only difference is your subconscious mind
is taking over in a dream. So the world you are in is from your subconscious.
Astral projection is just a higher sense of awareness. Even higher than this reality.

I was gonna share some of my experiences but people can't get past it being real or not.
You've probably experienced a dream that felt more real and aware than your usual. You probably projected..
I wouldn't lie. I don't have time to and I'm not that type of person.

edit: just to be clear. there is nothing wrong with living a normal life. Just make sure you are doing the right things.

[Gynosaur]

If it's real, then take on my challenge!  I'll reopen it until September 1.

[carguy]

The challenge shouldn't be me doing it. It should be YOU trying to do it.
I cannot control this perfectly and consistently.  You seem really defensive about this stuff. Why is that?
I told you I'm still learning to control it.
When I do it, the feelings and sensations are consistent which leads me to believe there is a method to this.
I don't have time to prove it to you. However, you have time to try it.
Here's what you do:
You should really try to start lucid dreaming first. That way you know how it works...
Say you are flying in a lucid dream. Well you have to keep your mind balanced so you don't get too excited and wake yourself up.
That right there is a skill that will be useful.

Tell yourself affirmations. (I will astral project tonight) every 30 minutes in the day time or you can say it repeatedly before you sleep.
You see, we are working with the subconscious here. The whole trick is to get your conscious mind to take over when your subconscious mind is usually working(in a dream).

Or you can get yourself into a trance (PSYCHOLOGY TERM -NOT OCCULT) through meditation.
Once you see HYPNAGOGIC IMAGERY(PSYCHOLOGY TERM -NOT OCCULT) you are close.
Focus on one thing (such as breathing) and by focusing on one thing.. your body will start to vibrate. Then you will feel like you have phantom limbs like they are not connected to your real body. You know then you are free to go. Trance feels like sleep paralysis except there is no fear and you can move. I'm sure many people have felt phantom limbs moving without knowing what it was.

Here's the thing I cannot control yet. When I leave my body I usually go to a completely different world. I CAN ask to see different places but I just usually explore the world I'm in. It's very hard to remember things...keeping memory is a problem in this state.
The problem with your challenge is that I cannot control exactly where I go and most of the time if I can, I don't remember your challenge. I have never seen the duplicate of this world. They call it etheric projection when you can see the Earth's duplicate. I've never done it. Everything here on Earth has a duplicate on the astral planes so it doesn't look exactly the same. The colors especially can be more vivid than here.
Another thing is I'm busy with school. I haven't consciously projected in weeks so its best if YOU try it.

With everything I said, there is no 'magic' involved. It could be an altered state of consciousness (another PSYCHOLOGY TERM).

[carguy]

I did it for the first time in weeks today but I couldn't remember the challenge. I was busy exploring and flying around.
I guess affirmations are really powerful because I said them last night before sleeping.