The Other Side of the Coin

[L]

If you glanced at my photo, you might wonder why I'd take take an interest in a forum about male gynecomastia. While that is my medical diagnosis, I'm also an MTF transsexual who feels fortunate to have natural breasts. I'm what tranny chasers call a "chick with a d!ck", but few people understand how that's really only half the story. I'm not here to brag or flaunt myself or jeer at those of you who've suffered from gynecomastia. I know exactly how it feels when you have no choice but to conceal yourself from the stares of other people.

My case is also unusual from a transsexual perspective. While I've always identified as queer, it wasn't until I developed breasts that I slowly came to realize I was transsexual as well. While most MTF's take estrogen as part of a concious effort to grow breasts and become more feminine, I've never taken hormones of any type.

My gynecomastia is the result of taking Casodex daily for the last six years to prevent male pattern baldness. I did this under an endocrinologist's care, and as you can see from my photo, it has worked as intended. I knew of the drug's potentially feminizing side-effects, but I had no idea the outcome would be so dramatic. My breasts are size 38B and they look and feel unmistakeably female, with ducts and enlarged areoles. They're wonderful and I wouldn't dream of having them removed. But I feel the same way about my c0ck and have no desire for sex reassignment surgery. I'm comfortable the way I am - half male and half female - I only wish I didn't have to hide my true nature.

Most people assume I've had SRS, and still think of me as female even after they find out I haven't had the surgery. It's easy for me to fit into this underground mythology of being a girl with a c0ck, and I am that in many ways. But I'm both female AND male, and I know inside that I'm still just as much a guy with breasts.

I want to be accepted as a guy sometimes but I have to conceal my breasts to do it. I feel like people are nowhere close relating to a guy having breasts as they are with fantasizing about a girl with a c0ck. But I also wonder if I'm not just afraid of exposing myself to ridicule.

So I'm hoping some of you have confronted this issue as a guy and can give me a wider perspective. It's so much easier for me to revert to my girl side and avoid challenging people's assumptions about me. I know I'm not the guy I used to be, but I feel hollow when I think of tossing away half of who I am. Why is it so wrong for a guy to have breasts?

[Spleen]

I'm comfortable the way I am - half male and half female - I only wish I didn't have to hide my true nature.

I'm not sure what you're hiding.  People tend to look at one's sex as one or the other proposition (boy or girl) so there isn't necessarily a mindset that expects or assumes a 50-50 split.  Just do yer thing and don't worry about the rest.

[girlieman]

I'm not sure what you're hiding.  People tend to look at one's sex as one or the other proposition (boy or girl) so there isn't necessarily a mindset that expects or assumes a 50-50 split.  Just do yer thing and don't worry about the rest.

People have both male and female characteristics.  I didn't get the impression that l. saw it as a 50 50 split.  Maybe he can clarify, but it sounds like she presents to the world as female most of the time.  I don't see any reason why you can't go back and forth.  It's new  but
bigenderism is the term for those that switch back and forth.  Why should she be forced to choose one or the other?

[nomenclator]

Actually, there are a substantial number of people with developmental abnormalities, whose whose primary sexual characteristics, whose genitals (never mind their secondary sexual characteristics, which is what breasts are) are neither characteristically male or characteristically female. I believe the best term I've heard for this sort of not so rare abnormality is transexual. They are in-between male and female. This is distinct from hermaphroditism, where someone has genitals of both sexes -- both testicles and ovaries. Such people are very very rare, if they exist at all. Transexualism is a fairly common developmental abnormality.

I am not assuming that case of abnormal development is a case of mal-development. You can be abnormal without having a malady. However in many cases people with ambiguous genitals have related abnormalities which can make their lives difficult, aside from any social difficulties resulting from non-acceptance by some people. For example they can have urethras that end in inconvenient places, or are sealed shut at birth and require (usually only minor) surgery to open. They can have a "testicle-ovary" that goes back and forth between the abdomen and scrotum-vulva, and becomes trapped in-between, and becomes gangenous due to loss of blood supply.

However a male with breasts is simply a full male, with hypertrophy of a secondary sexual characteristic. This would make you, L, fully male, in my view. If you want to pass yourself off as female, I am not particulary troubled  by that, but I think it is a deception, tho perhaps not an evil  or malicious deception.

[girlieman]

Actually, there are a substantial number of people with developmental abnormalities, whose whose primary sexual characteristics, whose genitals (never mind their secondary sexual characteristics, which is what breasts are) are neither characteristically male or characteristically female. I believe the best term I've heard for this sort of not so rare abnormality is transexual. They are in-between male and female. This is distinct from hermaphroditism, where someone has genitals of both sexes -- both testicles and ovaries. Such people are very very rare, if they exist at all. Transexualism is a fairly common developmental abnormality.

I am not assuming that case of abnormal development is a case of mal-development. You can be abnormal without having a malady. However in many cases people with ambiguous genitals have related abnormalities which can make their lives difficult, aside from any social difficulties resulting from non-acceptance by some people. For example they can have urethras that end in inconvenient places, or are sealed shut at birth and require (usually only minor) surgery to open. They can have a "testicle-ovary" that goes back and forth between the abdomen and scrotum-vulva, and becomes trapped in-between, and becomes gangenous due to loss of blood supply.

However a male with breasts is simply a full male, with hypertrophy of a secondary sexual characteristic. This would make you, L, fully male, in my view. If you want to pass yourself off as female, I am not particulary troubled  by that, but I think it is a deception, tho perhaps not an evil  or malicious deception.

What you speak of in the first paragraph is called intersexed.

[L]

Thanks for your responses, to clarify in case there's any doubt, I'm definitely an MTF transsexual rather than a guy suffering from gynecomastia. While it's true I have male genitals and intend to keep them, everything else about me is essentially female. However, I don't try to fool people into thinking I was born female, I'm out front about being transsexual and everyone close to me knows I have a c0ck. (Others have no way of knowing for sure, most assume I've had sex-change surgery.)

The thing that perplexes me is that while people are generally cool about me being a girl with a c0ck, they're really pretty awkward with the idea of me being a guy as well. Add breasts to the picture and it's just totally dissonant. It's not like I want to dress as a girl one day and a guy the next. I just don't like feeling that my male side is only marginally acceptable and only if I conceal myself (i.e. my breasts). It's like I have to suppress a major part of myself in order to be socially acceptable.

[Gine2D]

L, Welcome to the group.

Most here want the boobs cut off.  I do not.

I am straight male with Klinefelters Mosaic syndrome, 47-xy/xxy

I have some female physical attributes, almost no upper body hair, "C" breasts, rounded hips & other female curves.  I have never wanted to be gay or female.

I had low testosterone & high estrogen most of my life.  A couple of years ago I finally found a doctor that found the problem & what caused it.

I am a male with breast, since puberty, & like them.  They are very sexually sensitive, & the wife make the most of them.

Some here may bash you but just ignore them,  They know not what they do.

I understand some of your feelings.

Again, welcome.

G

[nomenclator]

girlieman, you are exactly correct, the word is intersexed; I don't know why I said transexual; I was thinking of the word intersexed, and meant to say intersexed. I don't know how I made this mistake.

[nomenclator]

L, a transexual is someone who has the body of one sex, but feels as if they are really a member of the other sex. Yet you say that not only are you a transexual, but you also feel as if you are member of the sex that your body is. If you think you are a member of both sexes, they why would you say you are a transexual? Why would you say you feel like you are a member of the female sex? You seem to feel like you have both male and female aspects. That would make you an, I don't know, a bisexual, or something (the word has already been assigned to something else, so we need another word). The word transexual really means someone who actually changes sexes, tho it is often applied to people who would simply feel like they would like to change sexes. So strictly speaking, even if you felt you were a woman with a man's body, you would not be a transexual unless you took steps to change your body, such as surgery or drugs.

No?

I wish people would just relax and not worry about these things so much.

[brother_gyne]

Before I had the op I was very much stuck in my teenage view of gyne- I hated it - I didn't want it etc. Now I have had the op  I find the why questions very interesting. Quentin Crisp compared  personality development to tightrope walking: your reluctant to get on the wire, you to try to cling to things  because you can see whats ahead and don't want it, but once your off your off. He was gay in  1930's Britain when homosexuality was illegal. As a kid being gay would have  presented a very difficult prospect indeed. However he embraced it.

Gyne made me very reluctant to set off - it challenged my identity as a straight guy- it didn't fit in with my mental picture of myself . I didn't fit in with my peers, I desperately wanted women to like me but I felt it got in the way.  However rather than facing up to these issues I limped on trying to ignore them. As a result i have failed trying to be what I am not. Gyne is a very strong taboo in our society and pulled me right of course.  

Its like there is a one way valve between the sexes. Things flow from female to male, women can do things in the male domain but male to female will not go, a man cannot enter the female domain. Men with breasts are abhorent to our society but a women with a male thingy is less so, its very strange and interesting .

I like very much that people like yourself are trying to change things- you look great  to me.  

[nomenclator]

brother_gyne

Its like there is a one way valve between the sexes. Things flow from female to male, women can do things in the male domain but male to female will not go, a man cannot enter the female domain. Men with breasts are abhorent to our society but a women with a thingy is less so, its very strange and interesting .  

I don't see it. I have worked as a bookkeeper where there were 12 female bookeepers and 2 male. Gynecomastia is very common and most people don't make a big production about it if they see a man with breast hypertrophy. It is very common. Women may be more attracted to men less flab and more muscle, but relatvely poorly formed men, with some money and some demeanor knowhow, can compensate, somewhat.

I don't think it is a taboo at all. It certainly does not challenge my identity as a straight guy. The thought never even occurred to me. I think I would be a little moer physically attractive, with my shirt off, if I didn't have it, that's all.

[nomenclator]

brother_gyne, I think you are making a big deal out of very little.  I don't think the problem is at all as serious as you seem to think it is, even if you have fairly large breasts. And most of us with gynecomastia don't have anything that compares to Dolly Parton or Mae West.

[girlieman]

Quentin Crisp compared  personality development to tightrope walking: your reluctant to get on the wire, you to try to cling to things  because you can see whats ahead and don't want it, but once your off your off. He was gay in  1930's Britain when homosexuality was illegal. As a kid being gay would have  presented a very difficult prospect indeed. However he embraced it.

This is brilliant.

Gyne made me very reluctant to set off - it challenged my identity as a straight guy- it didn't fit in with my mental picture of myself . I didn't fit in with my peers, I desperately wanted women to like me but I felt it got in the way.  However rather than facing up to these issues I limped on trying to ignore them. As a result i have failed trying to be what I am not. Gyne is a very strong taboo in our society and pulled me right of course.  

Its like there is a one way valve between the sexes. Things flow from female to male, women can do things in the male domain but male to female will not go, a man cannot enter the female domain. Men with breasts are abhorent to our society but a women with a male thingy is less so, its very strange and interesting .

I think it can go both ways.  At least most women are willing to accept you as female.  They will allow you into their world.   Men have a much harder time of it.  Gender identity is very much tied to sexuality and there is that pull to the right you mentioned.  You must be one thing or the other.  Ambiguity is not acceptable to most men.

I like very much that people like yourself are trying to change things- you look great  to me.  

Agreed!

[brother_gyne]

Hey girlie man - i am enjoying your entries on Graham Ashe's gay website thread thing.  Just reading that one shows how right you are , me thinks they do protest too much.  I think Gay guys are also willing to accept you if your odd or a misfit.

We are on a website dedicated to gyne - it stuffed full of angst-  people pay big bucks to fix it. I'm not sure I see it as a small thing.  

There are no ugly millionaires - check out Donald Trumps new bird for example. I'm not sure you get propelled into homosexuality by gyne, as a kid I wanted women to desire me, my belief was that they would only want strong males and that didn't  fit in with me having  gyne. Thus unhappiness as I pursued this road rather than face up to living in Ambiguity City and look for a new identity.

[girlieman]

The funny thing is I kind of agreed that the sites were inapproriate to the supposed purpose of this group.  Why would you link a support group for people that have a medical condition to a fetish wear shop?  Especially if they're young guys that are sensitive about their masculinity?  This site is very supportive of the plastic surgery industry so why not present potential patients with a false dichotomy:  You can get them cut off or live your life as a perv.

I get pretty rabid about hate speech as you may have noticed  
But I believe one is better off dealing with the issues of gender and sexuality earlier in life rather than later.  I'm open to most possibilities in people's choices or predispositions.

The Donald:  what a joke he is!  Is he adding another trophy to his collection?  I guess he can afford the alimoney.  I have a friend who is very lucky with the ladies.  He has a handsome face but he must weigh 140 Kgs.  His secret is that he has an incredible sense of humour.  Girls go for guys that can make them laugh!  Oh, in all that fat are some big boobs.  It's never bothered him.