Bras: Utilitarian vs Fashion

[Johndoe1]

I continue to subscribe that everyone should not be judged by where they are in their journey. We didn't ask for our feminine traits, physical and mental, but how we all deal with them is as different as the bodies they are associated with. And that is fine. Some will never get over having breasts and will opt for surgery. Some will totally accept so far as transitioning. But most will be somewhere in between. And many will move through the stages of acceptance at varying speeds and may not make it all the way through the stages opting to stop along the way. And that is fine too.

I think that those of us who are not well endowed will look at dressing differently than those of us who are more endowed or even "well endowed". And that is fine too, as long as people are respected and not judged. As someone who is D+ or "plus" sized when it comes to the chest, to use the vernacular of "busty people," you are forced to evaluate your appearance of what clothing works for you more than smaller busted people who can get away with more normal sized clothing because normal sized clothing just doesn't fit me with a DD/DDD size chest! Busty women deal with this all the time. I went down the path of "baggy" and found it just drew more attention because while effectively hiding my chest, it drew attention that I was hiding SOMETHING. Normal people don't wear tents. I can never appear flat chested. I have too much chest to try to hide!

So I have found that clothes with a more feminine shape, just works better for me. It has nothing to do with cross dressing, or being trans, or anything as exciting. The plain simple truth is non traditional male clothing just fits me better, is more comfortable and I generally have a better appearance, whether I like that fact or not. It took a long time and many, many, many, years to accept that fact and to even try it. I admit, I still wrestle with it all the time. I have more outwardly male physical traits than female and could never convincingly pass as anything other than male. But the female physical traits I have are unmistakable and have to be dealt with in some way. The trick has been to find male clothing with a more female cut and female clothes with a more male cut, something not always easy. But if you look hard enough, you can find items that work and still maintain what you are trying to express. More masculine women follow this same thinking for their wardrobe so this is by no means ground breaking or revolutionary. It's one of the reasons I take note how women deal with these same problems we deal with. They have probably figured it out and how can I adjust it to work for me. It's how do you logically deal with what Mother Nature has given you and how do you learn to either accept and overcome the fear or you don't.

[Orb]

  Thank you Johndoe.  Well said and  I couldn't agree more!

[Busted (and happy)]

10/10 from me John

[42CSurprise!]

Yes, well said John.  I imagine the men for whom all of this is most difficult are those who didn't struggle with gynecomastia as teens but are experiencing it later in life as a result of medications they're taking.  Those of us who contended with the sometimes nasty teen response to anything out of the norm have needed to find our way without much support.  Standing on a different side of the gender spectrum carries with it many challenges.  Most of the men here arrive with wives and a clear commitment to a heterosexual lifestyle.  But doubtless, gynecomastia isn't limited to such men.  Perhaps men pursuing a different lifestyle would have an easier time with all of this.  I have two gay friends with whom I can discuss all these things and they are both understanding and supportive.  Of course, both men have been exploring their sexuality their whole life.  They don't suggest the fact I have breasts means I need to transition or that I need to pursue a gay lifestyle, but their experience leads them to believe as John says, acceptance of differences is important.  In addition to what our bodies have been doing, we each have a lifetime of experience from birth to this moment that affects our attitudes and response to the fact breasts appear on our chests.  I wear a C cup brassiere, when I do, so I'm better able to conceal them sans brassiere than do some among us.  I wear a tee shirt or turtleneck and an over shirt that is unbuttoned.  The tee shirt is generally a dark color... not too baggy but the shape of my breasts is not apparent beneath the over shirt.

As I've mentioned before, I occasionally visit a site devoted to folks who crossdress, most of whom are men who use feminine usernames.  Whatever drives these men to pursue that lifestyle, it has nothing to do with gynecomastia.  They love talking about brassieres, lingerie and dressing but they also discuss breast forms to fill out those brassieres.  I've mentioned the fact I have real breasts because of gynecomastia and the comment is ignored.

We each respond to the circumstances in our lives in our own way.  This community of men is talking about how to come to terms with the fact breasts are part of our journey.  Where and how that fact sits in who we are and how we express ourselves is a work in progress.  I believe support one another in that journey is a fine thing.

[gmast]

I very much disagree with JohnD and 42C.  I have accepted my gyno, but accepting is not a path towards transitioning.  It is this kind of attitude, that accepting the breasts means you are less of a man, or becoming female that prevents men from accepting that they have  boobs.  Unfortunately, there are many close minded people here that seem to think once someone accepts the idea of having boobs, they should wear a bra, once they wear a bra, they should wear panties, once they wear panties (which have to match the bra), they should wear women's shirts, and etc.   The facts show that the majority of men get boobs, if they live long enough, but that does not mean they are becoming females or need bras.  And even those that need bras, are not becoming female, contrary to what has been popularized in these forums the last couple of years.

And as a guy that got it later in life, I certainly don't think I have it more difficult for me than an teen,  That is absolutely ridiculous.  Teen's self esteem bases off the opinions of and how they are treated by their peers much more than an old coot.  I don't have bullies picking on me.  And if I did, I have enough life experience to know how to deal with them.  Most old guys don't need support to get over having gyne. The vast majority either don't know they have it, or just call it man-boobs, and get on with life.  A small minority of men are concerned enough to get boob jobs, which teens can't normally get.  An even smaller minority come to this site for 'support'.  I'd say I have it much easier than a teen, or even young adult has with it.
 
It sounds like 42Cs gay friends are more supportive / recognize, than men that have boobs are still manly, unlike most of the recent posts on this site.

[blad]

Unfortunately, there are many close minded people here that seem to think once someone accepts the idea of having boobs, they should wear a bra, once they wear a bra, they should wear panties, once they wear panties (which have to match the bra), they should wear women's shirts, and etc.  The facts show that the majority of men get boobs, if they live long enough, but that does not mean they are becoming females or need bras.  And even those that need bras, are not becoming female, contrary to what has been popularized in these forums the last couple of years.

It has been said over and over here that there is a spectrum of acceptance; ranging from basically doing nothing, to using various support garments like a bra, to embracing a further feminization if you will.

It is not really very productive of you to dump on one end of the spectrum thinking you are self righteous at the other end of the spectrum. Maybe develop more of a tolerance to the whole spectrum that posts here. It is not your personal site.

[Busted (and happy)]

My last word, at least for a while, due to family and and other circumstances
.
Everyone has a right to do what they want to do. I wear a lot of womens' clothing (almost exclusively as it happens) as it fits better. This was advice my GP told me to remember when consulting him about gyno and receiving advice to wear a bra.
I happen to disagree with C42 surprise AND gmast because they both are making the same mistake.
This is a medical site  focused on gynecomastia. Some members on this site will have non gyno interests /needs, but it is NOT a cross dressing site in the popular sense of the word and everyone needs to make sure that that is respected. There are limits.
Sophie (BWG) is the prime example of knowing what is helpful and what is better unsaid.

This site is an oasis of common sense advice for young boys, mothers, young men and us oldies who seek help and a pathway through the initial distress of this "condition". Please do not destroy that.
Mothers, especially are likely to be put off if it becomes obsessed by fetishism. Remember how many of you had to hunt around when you wanted sensible help and advice.

I have very strong opinions but I try to be tolerant of all.
Stop and think before posting.
People spoil areas of natural beauty by inappropriate behaviour. Similarly, we can ruin the main attraction of this site.
To quote St Paul. "All things are permissable, but not everything is helpful.
If everyone pondered on that we might have a better world. By all means" do your own thing" but not without thought and respect for others 

[Evolver]

Unfortunately, there are many close minded people here that seem to think once someone accepts the idea of having boobs, they should wear a bra, once they wear a bra, they should wear panties, once they wear panties (which have to match the bra), they should wear women's shirts, and etc.

On the contrary, it is the closed minded people here who are intolerant of the wide variety of ways in which breasts can be accepted, enjoyed and taken pride in.

Being prudish is one reaction - fine, go right ahead. Others are taking advantage of their situations once they accept themselves and have never felt better as a result. What's wrong with that?

[Johndoe1]

I very much disagree with JohnD and 42C.

I thought I have been pretty clear that I have no desire to transition. I am a male that happens to have a very feminine physical trait, breasts. And not just small fat mounds either. It is what it is. It is a fact, plain and simple. And because of the degree of that trait, traditional male clothing doesn't always work for me. That is a physical fact that has nothing to do with sexuality, or gender but strictly with physical comfort and appearance. I do not present female. I present male and always have, even if I am wearing something that doesn't come from the "guy aisle" of a store. It has taken literally decades for me to get to this level of acceptance. But that's my journey.

The point I was trying to make was everyone deals with their condition differently and no one's position is right or wrong, it's what works for them and in most cases, we all will fall somewhere between total rejection of our breasts to total transition with the vast majority somewhere between rejection and some form of accepting up through wearing a bra for support and/or containment. That in no way implies or suggests that anyone who wears a bra and/or other female garments in support of their breasts are any less of a man. On occasion, I will wear a male looking women's top for the comfort of the added room around the bust because as a DD/DDD cup, a regular men's top will have the nasty habit of pulling across my chest in an uncomfortable/unflattering manner. That doesn't lessen my "manhood" any. As the attached pictures show of myself, you see my true size and what I look like in a man's polo. Your mileage will vary.

[42CSurprise!]

Here we have the differences that have posed a challenge for as long as I've visited the site.  gmast makes my point about men who come to gynecomastia late in life perfectly.  He lived most of his life without breasts of any sort and was able to simply enjoy his masculinity.  He says he is making peace with the fact those breasts have appeared, but he needs to keep the frame very narrow to protect his masculinity.  Those of us who have lived with fleshy chests since we were teens have had a much different journey and necessarily a more complex relationship to the presence of breasts that belong to us.

As I've said many times, elevated estrogen does more than enable the development of breasts, it affects our sense of who we are.  We certainly carry the genitals that belong to men, but we likely have never been the manly men.  Many of us talk about our comfort in being in relationship with women... not as objects of lust, but as human beings with whom we can share feelings.  That is not exactly a trait considered highly developed among men.  We are men, but we are different.  Busted and happy wants to protect mothers and sons who are contending with gynecomastia, so we need to exercise restraint in talking about some of the implications of this condition.  I guess that means he wants to protect the notion of manly men so fathers won't be disturbed by the fact their sons aren't very good at sports and seem to hang out with girls.

We all come to this site with different experiences and at its best, this forum supports individuals in finding acceptance of the reality in which they find themselves.  We've likely all felt a touch of embarrassment, even shame over the fact we didn't have flat chests as boys... except, of course those among us who did have flat chests until some damn doctor prescribed medicine that reduced testosterone and allowed estrogen to have its way with their bodies.  It is healthy to find self-acceptance.  For that reason, conversations like this are both necessary and healthy.  There is the old saw that say when you point your index finger at someone else, three fingers are pointing back at you.  There is no one size fits all.  It is good to remember that.

[Orb]

"We all come to this site with different experiences and at its best, this forum supports individuals in finding acceptance of the reality in which they find themselves."  42Csurprise

 
We do!  Everyone comes with their own set of questions and concerns as well as seeking answers on how best to deal with them on their own level. My desire is for everyone to gain a better self worth and see others for who they are.  All of us have traveled different paths.  All having a different body shape, no two are alike, and trying to deal with societal views of how one should be seen, act and dress.  Judgement of others isn't and never will be accepted by me.

[SideSet]

Johndoe you look great in those pictures.  And I disagree with anyone who just took issue with you

[aboywithgirls]

John, you do look great. I know what it's like to be a large busted individual. I know that going braless is not a good option. For me, braless isn't an option and hasn't been for quite some time.  The work dress code where I work requires women to wear a bra while at work and if I choose to wear a skirt or dress to the office, I'm also required to wear hosiery like nylons or tights. I of course wore a bra for decades before transitioning. 

Society is funny. If you are a woman, you have to wear a bra. If you're a man you can't wear a bra. Why can't we just simplify the whole thing and say "wear what you want or what works for you.

I prefer to wear a skirt or dress to work and maybe it's because I'm still a relatively new woman. However there are other ladies who prefer wearing khakis a button down, compression sports bra and loafers. I don't consider any of them less of a woman for doing so. All of the ladies I work with knew that most of my work clothes came from either the ladies department at Macy's or Torrid and while know that they considered me more of "one of the girls" they respected that fact that I dressed my shape and chose clothing that fit my body and not necessarily my assigned gender.

[42CSurprise!]

I have to laugh ABWG... I worked for years with a therapist decades ago.  I entered her office for the first time and met a butch lesbian dressed in trousers, brogues, a shirt with suspenders.  Her hair was cut in a man's style and her name was Mary-Perry.  This was long before gender fluidity became a thing and I certainly had never met a person presenting that way.  I wonder if she was wearing a brassiere?

I did important work with her and after my initial shock at meeting her, how she presented herself didn't matter one bit.  That was the beginning of my education regarding gender.  That education continues today, here and elsewhere on the web.

[Busty]

One thing that has always bothered me about this site is that everyone is expressing their opinions and experiences and being accepting of others and then someone comes along and is judgmental. I usually take a sabbatical from here when that becomes too much