Beyond......Has the time come?

[taxmapper]

There is an air of shared experiences with anyone who comes onto this forum (outside trolls.) 

Exploring aspects other than boobs that are by definition not suppose to be there is just another ancillary aspect to this experience. 
we all have experienced something that takes us out of the mammary gland aspect. 


Its really up tot he individuals who read the info if they want to comment, participate, agree/disagree, whatever was posted. 
if one wants to play Transvestite, then go ahead. 
Want to go Transgendered: ok. 

Transsexual.. fine. 

For me its an odd aspect that I am finding more alignment with hermaphroditism than anything else, where only a few have discovered. 
THAT is lonely to say the least. 

But for me par for the course. 

In the end is really up to the person themselves to what they want to explore or not. 

[Upfront]

Oh what a can of worms I have opened. Not at all what was intended. I am really sorry to have rocked the boat.
At least everyone  is being polite...... so far.
I  for one one do not intend to push this any further.
I have historically glanced at these other fora, but do not feel that they are groups I would wish to join (multi faceted reasons) and that should not be taken as hostility or judgemental.
I don't think telling people  to go off to other sites is helpful. They and I would have gone ere this but this is the community in which we feel we can be supported and listened to. I would like to think that is reason we all are here.
Feel free to carry this thread on but this will  be my last open contribution to this particular conversation. It is the best way to preserve the peace.

[Justagirl💃]

For me its an odd aspect that I am finding more alignment with hermaphroditism than anything else, where only a few have discovered.
THAT is lonely to say the least.

I'm right there!

My boobs are only half of the equation physically, and mentally that direction is where I am. 💃

I'm a woman because I have a womb, not quite physically like most women but enough. And I have always felt like a woman. 
"Boy-mode" just didn't ever fit!

Like other members, I have enough commonality to share experiences regarding bras, acceptance, clothes that fit, and even more.
We are all on the estrogen highway, and we all have plenty to add to the forum.
From recent members to transgender experience and everything in between , we all belong.

If certain threads don't interest someone they can always overlook those and focus on the threads that do.

[42CSurprise!]

I revisited a website devoted to crossdressing a moment ago to visit the non-binary forum I'd encountered some time ago.  That forum helped me come to terms with my own gender confusion.  I'll offer a link to the website below but please note that you can only access the non-binary forum by registering.  I read an excellent conversation with the heading "How one views oneself as transgender."  Here is a one person's contribution...

I consider myself to be transgendered too. To explain all that this means (to me) would take W-A-Y too long for here, but here are a few things that are "indicators":
 As far back as I can remember, I've always felt (known!) that I was supposed to have been born a girl. I've always felt this way.
I've spent my life trying to fit into the male role. I've managed to do OK, but it's never been a comfortable fit.
In a social setting, I'll find that I've gravitated towards where the women are gathered, not the men.
I don't dress to feel feminine. I feel feminine, so I want to dress accordingly.
Even outsiders can see it. I've had friends (who knew) tell me that they see me as a mix of both male and female (leaning towards female).
I've actually been diagnosed as transgendered by a professional (psychiatrist).
If it weren't for my obviously male body, I'd have transitioned years ago. (You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear)
When people pose the "magic pill" question, I know I'd take it - every time.
etc. etc. etc.

I think that my struggles with my dysphoria are a large part of my tendency towards depression. To always want something that you can't have, it can really mess up a person's head.

Kim, I know that you've suffered through a lot to get where you are. While I'm sorry you had to go through all that, I must admit that I'm a bit envious of you. You have reached a place in your life where you can be yourself (and you look good doing it too!)

And here is what I contributed...

I haven't spent a great deal of time on this website and haven't visited in quite some time. I came today specifically looking for threads within the Non-Binary forum and this is the conversation I hoped to find. I've mentioned previously that I wear a brassiere specifically because of changes in my body... read elevated estrogen... has resulted in the soft chest I've always had filling out with what can only be called breasts. Since crossdressing has been part of my past, the prospect of shopping for brassieres and then wearing them has not been a problem. When I came here I read about others who'd purged and then reacquired lingerie and other clothing designed for women. That helped me to NOT throw away the brassieres I bought, but since wearing a brassiere is not the same as crossdressing regularly discussed here, this is not the place where I've been exploring that experience. In fact, I became active on a website with other men who are experiencing breast growth and turning to brassieres to find comfort. The conversations have deepened over time with much discussion about the impact elevated estrogen is having not only on our chests, but also in the rest of our bodies AND our minds. We have been talking a great deal about gender fluidity and pondering the question of how best to discuss that matter on a website maintained by a plastic surgeon who offers to cut off men's breasts. There is an "acceptance" forum on the website and the men I hang out with have no interest in pursuing surgery. One of them chose some years ago to transition and has completed SRS. He'd been wearing a brassiere since he was 16 years old. One was born intersexed and though he lived most of his life as a man he has always believed he is a woman. He isn't transitioning but is living his life fully as a woman. I suggested that these men may wish to consider a website like this one where conversations about gender identity and expression can happen freely... much as is happening in this thread.
 
I was very pleased many months ago when I came upon the Non-Binary forum. Reading here helped me to understand myself. I started a conversation on that other site with the title "Transgender But Not Transitioning." I guess that accurately answers the question posed by this thread. Self-acceptance for me probably comes closest to what Rhonda Jean says. I'm not one thing... I'm many things depending on mood and circumstances. There are people in my life, including the men at that website, who know me as a voluptuous person who fills out a 42C brassiere. But most people in my life know nothing about the journey I've been on. Blessedly, I am no longer shaming myself because I enjoy wearing a brassiere from time to time. There really is no "one size fits all" when it comes to gender non-conformity. We are fortunate that we have places like this where we can speak our truth without fear of censure. I will definitely be passing a link along to this website. Perhaps some of those men who are accepting of their breasts and wishing to explore their femininity will want to participate on this website. Thanks everyone for sharing so honestly about your experience.

Here's a link to the website in case anyone is interested in checking it out.

https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/forum.php

[taxmapper]

Oh what a can of worms I have opened. Not at all what was intended. I am really sorry to have rocked the boat.
At least everyone  is being polite...... so far.
I  for one one do not intend to push this any further.
I have historically glanced at these other fora, but do not feel that they are groups I would wish to join (multi faceted reasons) and that should not be taken as hostility or judgemental.
I don't think telling people  to go off to other sites is helpful. They and I would have gone ere this but this is the community in which we feel we can be supported and listened to. I would like to think that is reason we all are here.
Feel free to carry this thread on but this will  be my last open contribution to this particular conversation. It is the best way to preserve the peace.

Dont apologize. 
No need to. 
this is part of the beast. 

[taxmapper]

What has happened to many is that estrogen is in our systems way above the normal range for those "with the man parts". 

OK fine. 
We cant undo it. 
Cross dressing is something that outside the "ambiguous" aspects has caused me to take on male looking, female cut clothing. 

Women's jeans, some women's polos, shoes etc. 
I feel better in them and they fit. 
I look a bit odd either way, but cest la vie. 

I am not looking into any "fetish" aspect, because looking female and being male isn't in my blood stream. 
I am dressing in women's clothing because it fits. 

I have physical features that are akin tot he girl side than male. There isn't any kind of "hidden feelings" that push me to do this, its need. 


keep in mind, that I don't have an Adams apple. 
No brow ridge. 
Hand is female shaped but male sized. (Size 17 ring).  
Feet are female shaped, male size. 
even hips seem to position my legs in a way reminiscent of being female. 

IDK if I have female parts inside, but it seems like I should.   Who knows what way this will go. 

[Upfront]

I apologised because I felt it appropriate . 
I am more than happy for others to continue..
I will watch with interest but will not contribute further to this topic

[Johndoe1]

What has happened to many is that estrogen is in our systems way above the normal range for those "with the man parts".
.....
I have physical features that are akin tot he girl side than male. There isn't any kind of "hidden feelings" that push me to do this, its need.

I think many of us fall in this category. I know I do.

I didn't ask to have elevated estrogen. I didn't ask to develop breasts that hang from my chest like a woman. I didn't ask to have other features that are more feminine than male while still maintaining an overall male appearance. But here I am. I can deny the obvious and have a shitty life, or I can embrace what I have been given and have a happy life. I choose happy. I have done it the other way and for me, it sucked. 

So what to do? I can reinvent the wheel,  which is time consuming and expensive or I can take examples and cues from others who deal with the same issues. In this case, it's our sisters. They have already navigated these waters and have tested solutions at the ready. But that means I have to cross the imaginary asle of male and female. As a good female friend told me once, I looked better in a bra and woman's top that actually fit me and not the male tops I had been wearing. It got me thinking. Clothing doesn't need to be labeled gender specific.

Up until the 1800s, there was little difference in clothing between the genders other than how they were matched and worn. Even into the early 20th Century, all children up to the age of 6 or 7 dressed identically with dresses and long hair and Mary Jane shoes. Clothes were passed down from child to child, no matter the gender. All wore the same. What's changed? Industrial Revolution. Buying power. The middle class. Clothing manufacturing. Separate boys and girls clothing marketing makes more money. And we as a society embraced it. 

I would rather wear what works or suits my personality rather than a gender to impress the neighbors. 

[42CSurprise!]

It is clear that men spending time on this side of the website are committed to self-acceptance.  That occasionally leads to discussions about wearing brassieres.  It also can lead to questions about how estrogen affects other elements of experience, which CAN lead to discussions about gender expression.  The first half of the journey... self-acceptance of breasts is much simpler than sorting out the rest of the journey.  That is what this thread approaches.  We can ALWAYS talk about self-acceptance... a good thing to be doing.  Not everyone is interested in the rest of the journey.  So be it.

[Evolver]

Oh what a can of worms I have opened. Not at all what was intended. I am really sorry to have rocked the boat.

No, you haven't. I can't even see a ripple.

[Evolver]

It is clear that men spending time on this side of the website are committed to self-acceptance. 

Bingo.

[gotgyne]

Oh what a can of worms I have opened.

If life offers you lemons, make lemonade of them. If you open a can of worms, go fishing .
So, no problem at all. A discussion only within the mainstream is not even worth to be discussed.
John

[Justagirl💃]

All in all, it's been a very good discussion.
We have seen that opinions vary greatly within our online community, and so far everyone has been relatively polite.

Suggestions of using other forums were made by some, but not once has anyone asked another to leave this forum (that's a great improvement from arguments past).

From my perspective there always seems to be a bit of nostalgia associated with the first forum where I "found myself". 45 years of confusion ended right here in the acceptance side of this forum.
I have withdrawn myself many times, and even left the site only to return. So "leaving" the forum to pursue a more fitting forum isn't in my future, although I am a member of two more that I sparsely participate in.

Like I have stated in posts past, I look at my comments from the perspective of not scaring off any new members that might just recently have acquired a gyno diagnosis.

More risqué comments I am trying to keep in PM's.

Acceptance means much more than "I got boobs", so the effects of estrogen dominance on our lives has and should continue to be discussed as with clothes that fit. Support garments are also an important aspect as well.
From there conversation varies from concealment to what looks "cute", and that also is within the the borders of our estrogen highway.
In the past, threads that don't interest an individual have simply been ignored.

The only changes I have made recently is the heavier use of PM's including group chats.

We have a forum here that has been setup for our use, and it's quite functional for the most part. I personally shall just make the most of it.

💞Birdie💞

[42CSurprise!]

Well said Birdie.

I've mentioned spending time on a crossdressing website, the one whose link I share above.  I never felt fully comfortable there and despite the fact I'd indulged in rather narrowly focused crossdressing at times in my life, I felt some judgment about these men who were thrilled by high heels, wigs and breast plates.  The irony is that these men are grappling with gender confusion in ways not dissimilar from what happens here at times.  They've embraced gender expression through attempting to appear as women while men here have resisted the call of estrogen, some believing that cutting off the breasts nature gives them will solve the problem.  It seems for all of us that self-acceptance is the key to finding peace in our lives.  Granted, accepting our reality does little to solve larger questions in our lives.  Men on that site often have wives who can't accept their needs in the same way some of the men here have partners who aren't on board with breasts and brassieres in the family that don't belong to them.  And then there is the wider community of friends, family, co-workers who really don't want to know about our struggles.  It is too easy to label anyone pursuing a non-conventional path as defective or perverted.  Yes, it is a great relief to find kindred spirits who share what is often a very challenging journey. 

There are 561 people, most likely men, viewing the Male to Female Crossdressing forum and 107 viewing the Transsexual forum AT THIS MOMENT.  We're a rather tiny cohort on this website in comparison.  I mentioned before the conversation that asked how many police officers present wear panties to work and there were 10 who reported on the thread. (I doubt we've EVER had ten men posting on this website at the same time.) These are kindred spirits who simply have come to this exploration through a different mindset.  They may not have had to deal with growing breasts as teens but may have done what I did when I put on my neighbor's lingerie and found it so exciting that I wanted to do it again and again.  They haven't understood the nature of the journey they were on, often collecting lingerie only to purge when the shame became too great.  I thought I was the only person who did that.  I read about that behavior at the same time I was reading here about men who enjoyed wearing a brassiere that held their very real breasts.  I learned to take pleasure in wearing a brassiere through my involvement here and learned it was okay to keep the brassieres I'd bought through listening to those men.

I've no interest in wearing a skirt and won't likely wear panties.  I certainly won't be wearing high heals nor will I buy a wig.  But the more I wear a brassiere the more I come to realize just how voluptuous I am.  I'm loving these beautiful breasts.  I've no intention of flaunting them and certainly will not inflict my enjoyment of them on people in my life.  This is my passion... not theirs.  But I'll no longer shame myself because I enjoy wearing a brassiere and love the presentation of my breasts.  That is cause for celebration!