all done

[nonini]

wait! so your saying you would have him do excision even if it was flat after the lipo? thats pretty stupid! there is on way to know how your gyno is going to respond to lipo before the surgeon actualy gets in there so you have to trust his judgement in the end. you cant just demand excision on matter what!

[nonini]

on a side note a did get a nice check from the doc today because we only did lipo

[Hypo-is-here]

I made a comment regarding someone else’s lipo only situation here;

You are a first!!!

I have never EVER previously heard of anyone on this site stating that they were happy with lipo only.

Do you fancy sharing your before and after photos?

How long are you post op?

To which you replied here;

Worried about the same thing, but what can you do? I dont expect him to excise if he feels its flat so its a tougth situation, will just have to wait and see.
Although I have seen some pretty good lipo only results at www.locateadoc.com

To which I said;

You fire his ass and get someone who will perform the procedure that makes sense/that you see fit.

In other words you decide on the surgery- you make the decision on what procedure not the plastic surgeon.



To which you say;

  you dont understand, we agreed on lipo and excision. but after just the lipo he says it was flat so u cant expect him to still do the excision.

Hence the reply;

What do you mean but just after the lipo?

I presume you were not awake during the procedure, so how did he consult you mid-procedure?

If he did lipo first that is because you didn’t demand/state exactly what you wanted and what the bottom line was with your expectations.  If you were under local anesthetic, I would be informing him that “his timing” in terms of consultation was not exactly good and that he should do what was agreed- in other words again coming back to your bottom line and expectations.

If this was me this simply would not and could not have happened- letting it happen is an error in communication…..either yours with the surgeon or ours because perhaps I am not correctly interpreting what you are saying- if that is so you would have to clarify what went on.

At which point you come around to the strange hidsight position of that below which is denying your own original concerns/reservations.

wait! so your saying you would have him do excision even if it was flat after the lipo? thats pretty stupid! there is on way to know how your gyno is going to respond to lipo before the surgeon actualy gets in there so you have to trust his judgement in the end. you cant just demand excision on matter what!

Ergo your original concern that caused you to start this conversation must be by logical extension pretty stupid.


I think your original concerns/reservations make sense and I think it is the logic in-between that has gone astray.

Again your original comment was;

Worried about the same thing, but what can you do? I dont expect him to excise if he feels its flat so its a tougth situation, will just have to wait and see.
Although I have seen some pretty good lipo only results at www.locateadoc.com

This is a circular argument, you have started off one place and ended up back at the begging facing a different direction and effectively arguing with your own concerns.

Seriously re-read these posts one after another- don’t just skim and you can see what I mean.

I am saying that it is;

A) for you to decide prior to surgery what procedure it is that you want.

B) That this is based on the logical position and fact that diagnostic tools for assessing prior to opening up the chest are poor.  

C) that you would not want to wake up and then evaluate if you required excision because the plastic surgeon decided on the fly, because you have to live with the results not him and this ultimately must be a decision that comes from you otherwise he may have a different idea of what is acceptable post op.  To let him decide on the fly without even going in with excision to see what is there- a decision in the moment from him  may mean you require a second procedure and all the issues that brings.

D) even if your surgery was via local anesthetic that is/ would be absurd time for the doctor to consult you and ask what you wanted mid procedure.

E) That in hindsight you maybe happy with your result but that does not make what happened a sensible protocol to follow hence my position.  That the patient should decide/make it clear what he wants and expects prior to surgery,

I am being very logical as I see it I apologise if I cause offense I do not mean to.

If you think my logic is flawed in terms of how a procedure should be decided upon please explain,

[Seal]

it can work for some people, but the tissue has to not be dense and fibrous, which is why in keeping with what you say so many have been unhappy with what can be left behind.  

My chest had a number of hard masses and lumps which was no doubt making the nipples puff out.

I think hi-tech liposuction can break them apart.

[Paa_Paw]

Seal,

I admire your sense of hopefulness, but the sad truth is that Lipo alone has only been proven to remove fat, not hard deposits

[Seal]

Seal,

I admire your sense of hopefulness, but the sad truth is that Lipo alone has only been proven to remove fat, not hard deposits

My gyne was certainly real. It was there for about nine years now it's completely gone.

It was brought on by weight gain and when I lost the weight it never went away. Maybe that is why lipo only got rid of it.

[nonini]

I completely disagree it shouldnt be up to you to decide how the gyno should be dealt with. are you a surgeon? have you ever done anything like it before? NO!   you seem to be under the impression that it is always clear before surgery what the gyno consists of while thats not the case. and in any case its always better to leave in more  than to take out more its easier to correct.

I think your problem is with my "I am worried" statement. I was simply sharing my emotions, It does not mean that they are valid of well founded or that the Doc did the right or wrong thing, only time can tell us that.  

But I personaly think under the situation that is the sencible thing to do i.e not go ahead with excision.

[Hypo-is-here]

I completely disagree it shouldnt be up to you to decide how the gyno should be dealt with. are you a surgeon?
.

I know that statistically people are FAR more likely to be unhappy with lipo only rather than lipo and excision from the experience of listening to hundreds/thousands of guys post op on this site for over two years.

What more do I need to know- this is the bottom line we are talking about.

have you ever done anything like it before? NO!  
.

No I haven’t but it is irrelevant.  I don’t need to have experience in an operating theater, I just need to know the logical grounds for making a decision based on logic and statistics.

you seem to be under the impression that it is always clear before surgery what the gyno consists of while thats not the case. and in any case its always better to leave in more  than to take out more its easier to correct.
.

You see this is where you come in with your odd logic again that simply doesn’t make any sense.

I am the person here who is saying that it is impossible for even the surgeon to know prior to lifting the areola via excision how much gland there is and that diagnostics tools are limited.  My logic is therefore that it is better to state that you want lipo and excision and let the surgeon go in to do both.  If after he has made an incision and lifted the areola- if then he sees that there is little to cut out then –fine.  Being in the chest he can know what the situation is.

You are the one that is effectively saying that someone knows prior to surgery what the make-up of the gynecomastia is.

I am telling you for a fact that no surgeon in the land can say what the make-up of gynecomastia is prior to getting in the chest.  So you have this back-to-front.

I think your problem is with my "I am worried" statement. I was simply sharing my emotions, It does not mean that they are valid of well founded or that the Doc did the right or wrong thing, only time can tell us that.  

But I personaly think under the situation that is the sencible thing to do i.e not go ahead with excision.

I understand what you are saying about emotions and there is at least some logic to that.  The second part of what you are saying make no sense whatsoever and I am not saying this to irritate you.  I will explain why it doesn’t make sense.

A)      The surgeon can’t know prior to excision if excision is required.
B)      If you leave the decision to them and they do the lipo and decide on the fly that you don’t require excision based on the look he sees before him- you might wake up and disagree- meaning you need a second surgery with all the issues that, that brings.
C)      Statistically lipo only patients are almost always unhappy with the results as seen by all the people stating this that have come through the site for over two years.  The statistical number that have complained about excision and lipo is much lower.

I could go on and on and on….but I am not going to.

The fact of the matter is the protocol/idea of leaving it upto the surgeon as to what procedure is performed on the day is fraught with difficulties, misunderstandings and potential second surgeries and court cases.  It is a terrible way to proceed in terms of logic and statistical likelihood of success.

If you have come out of the situation with a good result then I am genuinely happy for you- but if everyone went about this the same way you have- with this on the fly manner…….we would factually have far more unhappy guys on this website.

I hope you understand what I have explained- I am out of this thread as I think I have exhausted what I have to say- anything further would be pointless.

[nonini]

Man I dont know whart the hell you are talking about. I said "I dont expext him to excise if it is flat" i.e after lipo (maybe you didnt get that i dont know) so you should give the doc the choice of not doing the exision.
then you came in with then you should fire his ass.

Why do you feel he needs to make an to make an Incision?  He can tell whats coming out and whats not coming out when he does the lipo, making an incision and then not removing anything is just extra scars.

I realize that lipo alone wont work for most people but that doesnt mean it wont work for you, Plus you have to realize that statistics are not accurate on this site, people are here because they are unhappy with their chest.

I never said anything about leaving it up to the surgeon do decide on the day, we had already agreed to lipo + excision and he drew the lines for where he thought he would do lipo and where excision on my chest. But I am saying the situatuion is dynamic and he should be able to adjust acordingly and not stick to some script.

As to the issue of my results I dont know yet I just had it on monday, I havent even taken the bandages of yet. It seems smaller but still kinda big , maybe he missed something maybe its swelling Im hoping for the best, if it goes bad ill try again in a year maybe.

Im gonna study for my exams now, see you guys in a while.

[Hypo-is-here]

I said I was out but I have to come back one last time  because there is so much wrong with that last post…and I was wrong in that more can be said...at least a posts worth.

Man I dont know whart the hell you are talking about. I said "I dont expext him to excise if it is flat" i.e after lipo (maybe you didnt get that i dont know) so you should give the doc the choice of not doing the exision.
.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a surgeon can tell if you are properly flat mid-procedure without making an incision to see if there is gland behind the nipple- when you are lying flat on your back?

If this is so can you please explain to me why on earth the statistical rate of success with lipo only is abysmal!!!!

Why?

Come on tell me because I would love to know.

If the surgeons out there are so darn good at making the assessment for their patients, why is it that the success rate for lipo only is abysmal?

You don’t have an answer for that- A good answer to that doesn’t exist, so I would even bother attempting to concoct one.

As for the reason I said to fire the surgeon.  The reasoning was simple, glandular excision and lipo IS the preferred method of gynecomastia removal- NOT lipo only.  You had concerns- you would be FAR less likely to have, had you had a surgeon who at least had a look in the chest to ensure that there was no glandular gynecomastia.

Furthermore I can tell you for a fact that if you have any glandular gynecomastia at all then you WILL still have it and be less flat and have a less positive result…..FACT- sorry.

Why do you feel he needs to make an to make an Incision?  He can tell whats coming out and whats not coming out when he does the lipo, making an incision and then not removing anything is just extra scars.
.

I can tell you categorically that it is IMPOSSIBLE for your surgeon or any surgeon to tell whether you have glandular gynecomastia, particularly if diffuse- from lipo suction.  You are talking complete and utter nonsense.  Where have you got this notion from?

The reason to make an incision and look behind the areola is to physically look in the chest and evaluate the situation, to see if you have glandular gynecomastia that needs removal.  Your surgeon had no idea whatsoever whether or not you had glandular gynecomastia from lipo suction.  If it has turned out that you didn’t and happened to get a good result then that is partially through chance.

When you go through a procedure like this and spend the sums on money involved you want to eliminate chance as much as possible…..you are talking complete nonsense, because your/your surgeons recipe increase the chance of failure.

I realize that lipo alone wont work for most people but that doesnt mean it wont work for you,
.

What planet is this logic from?  Seriously I am incredulous that anyone can talk this way.  You agree that lipo alone wont work for most people, but say;

“but that doesn’t mean it wont work for you”

Well yes, but you try to cut down on the potential risk for failure/for negative results no matter whether you are talking about surgery or trying to break a land speed record, you don’t actively try and increase the chance of failure do you!!!

This logic is so screwed.  If you build a building with less strength so that it cannot withstand really bad weather what will happen.

Nothing if the weather is good….ergo;

There is no problem as long as we don’t have bad weather;

ergo we should build in the set manner….ER NOOOOOOoooooo  

The above analogy is how your logic works…just totally screwy!!!

Plus you have to realize that statistics are not accurate on this site, people are here because they are unhappy with their chest.
.

A) Result seen here over two years are a reasonable guide to how people do with differing procedure with differing surgeons and in fact is probably a better guide to the reality than any details you will get off of any individual surgeon.  Is this information perfect- clearly not, but it is better than anything else available.

B) The people who are here are not all unhappy with their chest.  I for one explode that theory.  I am post op and very happy with my chest.  Many people post very happy post op experiences and are very happy with their results- most then leave.  Way before you turned up, month on month on month all I hear about is how many people are unhappy and dissatisfied with lipo only.  The numbers of people who have complained of lipo only have been constant and regular here for over two years.  Comparatively very few people irrespective of surgeon complain about poor results from excision and lipo.

Because of the above I am going to be a large and obvious beaken wraning about the inherent problems with lipo only.  I am using the facts and experiences people have had to try and ensure less people suffer.  I am not going to back down on this issue to a guy that doesn’t really know his apples just to be nice- sorry.

I never said anything about leaving it up to the surgeon do decide on the day, we had already agreed to lipo + excision and he drew the lines for where he thought he would do lipo and where excision on my chest. But I am saying the situatuion is dynamic and he should be able to adjust acordingly and not stick to some script.
.

You have just completely contradicted yourself.  You have said that you didn’t say anything about it being up to the surgeon on the day and then you have said that it was up to him on the day.  You have also said you agreed one thing and then got another.

Also;

You are trying to make it sound that dynamically acting according to the scene is the way surgeons should act.  But your surgeon hasn’t acted dynamically has he?  

I mean he hasn’t even opened you up to see if there is any glandular gynecomastia.  

You think what you got was dynamic, but this manner allows crappy plastic surgeons to just perform a cheaper and easier procedure under the guise of- I though that was best for you and in my opinion you are flat etc.

The manner of procedure I have detailed/the protocol I stated is dynamic because it is lipo suction and an incision and lifting of the areola with a view to removing what is found, if nothing is found nothing is removed.

I say it again your procedure was NOT dynamic and he had NO way of knowing what was or was not in the chest because he did not look.  If you have a good result I am pleased for you but it IS partly down to CHANCE and it is NOT the right way to go and  NOT the correct protocol for a good statistical level of success.  

As to the issue of my results I dont know yet I just had it on monday, I havent even taken the bandages of yet. It seems smaller but still kinda big , maybe he missed something maybe its swelling Im hoping for the best, if it goes bad ill try again in a year maybe.

Im gonna study for my exams now, see you guys in a while.

You’re lack of logic drives me round the twist because my mind is overly-logical.  But I truly, most genuinely hope you have a great result.  I might seem as though I have argued non stop with you and I have- because I think it important that people do not follow suit and copy your actions/the actions of your surgeon as it will result in more men being unhappy.  I wish you no ill will and in fact hope the chest heals fast and you can put gynecomastia behind you.

Sorry this had to be confrontational in manner, but it had to be due to what was being said.