Post op is the "perfect chest" attainable with exercise?

[AntherGuyWGyno]

I have gynecomastia. I'm like 5'10 and 165 lbs. I wouldnt say I'm over weight at all but I'm nowhere near my fitness goals right now. For the past 4-5 months I've been weight training and trying to change my body shape and overall physique and for the most part its working.
My chest muscles definetly are bigger now, at least from what I can feel, but I wouldnt say it necessarily made the gyno any worse.

this is my chest now


In this next pic I'm trying to grab just the gyne part. The top of my chest looks big but thats just bc of the muscle. The only part that I can actually grab thats soft is the part im grabbing in the pic. The part of the chest above what Im grabbing is pretty much rock solid muscle directly below the skin.


My eventual fitness goals is to have a physique and chest that looks like this:

Right now im bulking but I will reduce my bodyfat and eventually attain that physique if its the last thing I do. I've already come pretty far from where I started.

Now im going to start with the questions. Ive read in other posts in this message board about having "indented" chests after having the surgical gyno reduction. Is this simply because these are men who are going into the surgery with a large amount of fat over their whole chest due to simply just having a higher bodyfat percentage? I mean based on my pictures if a surgeon took out every single bit of fat and gland from my chest, would it be indented? I dont want to have any fat left on my chest I want to eventually have a low bodyfat percentage like that picture above and have a completely hard big muscular chest.

Also, If I have the surgery (which Im thinking of having with Dr. Fielding in Toronto, ontario, canada) no muscle will be removed/damaged or misshapen because of the liposuction will it?

Also does the fact that I have a glandular and fat man boob mean that my muscle has grown misshapen too? Or does everyone with gyno have a perfectly shaped muscle buried underneath?

Most of the guys ive seen before and after pics of went from not-athletic looking with boobs to not-athletic looking without boobs. Which is awesome and more power to them but I'm wondering if its possible to go from not-athletic with manboobs to a perfect muscular physique with a lot of hard work... Or am I just asking too much?

[AntherGuyWGyno]

Thanks for the reply. It was exactly what I was hoping for, but it still leaves me with a some questions.

You say that not everyone has what it takes to be a bodybuilder and not to compare myself to someone elses physique. You also said that all men have fat and gland we just have more of it.

In that picture of that bodybuilders physique above, I'm guessing he has a bodyfat percentage less than 5% if not even less than that. I'm also guessing that because his bodyfat is so low and he has developed larger muscles if you pressed the area around his nipple it would be rock solid and not a fatty glandular mass that's completing the contour of the chest as seen in the image.

I always thought that the indented nipple problem was due to the fact that all men have a layer of fat that blankets the entire chest area, and when men have a higher bodyfat percentage and go into the surgery, the surgeon removes the fat cells around the nipple in some cases too much and it looks indented becuase too much of the fat has been removed from the nipple area while it still remains in a natural looking amount surrounding the excision site.

It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger.

via http://home.howstuffworks.com/fat-cell.htm

That being said, removing the actual "fat cells" is serious business becuase we're not just getting rid of fat in the same way that someone would do it with exercise, we're actually removing the fat cells completely.

That guy in the picture above who has the "bodybuilder physique", probably has a layer of fat cells on his chest in a normal amount like anyone else, except in his case the fat cells are "emptied out" more or less than the average guy. In his case if he did have gyno and since his bodyfat is so low, his gyno would still be present at such a low bodyfat percentage because the glandular mass will always remain the same size regardless of bodyfat percentage.

You say that bodybuilding isnt for everyone or something like that, but I'm telling you, that's one of my goals. I wont give up until I get into that kind of shape once in my life. I have friends without gyno who have achieved it and I know I am capable of doing it and I will do it regardless of how it affects my gynecomastia situation.

My real questions at this point are:

1)Does the fact that I developed gynecomastia have any effect on the muscle underneath the glandular and excess fatty tissue. In other words if Gynecomastia is described as excess glandular and fatty tissue on top of the muscle as shown in this diagram

via http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_anatomy.html

Is that really how it is? Is the muscle still perfectly contoured (the darker part that the arrow is pointing towards) but just buried below gland and fat?
When I try to grab the fatty/glandular tissue I can feel the muscle underneath but it feels like It might be more like this following image that I modified myself:


What I'm asking is if the fact that I have developed this glandular mass during puberty affect the shape of development of the muscle itself? Or am I just imagining things?

Question 2) Is it better to have a higher bodyfat percentage and less muscle going into the procedure or is it better to have a really low bodyfat percentage and a larger amount of muscle. Thus far, Ive been thinking that if I can work out and develop the muscles and "empty" out the fat cells all over my body and bring my bodyfat percentage down to around 5% while having muscle it would be really easy in that case for the surgeon to tell what needs to be removed, no? (Thats when I had worried that muscle might be removed or damaged during the procedure.)

I'm guessing that if I have an extremely low bodyfat percentage and have the procedure he will remove the "unfilled" fatty tissue surrounding the gynecomastia area of the chest, so I'm guessing that if I ever gained a LOT of weight years after the surgery (which I definetly dont plan on doing) I would have an indented chest if the fatty tissue "fills up" on all the rest of the chest but the fatty tissue is non existent around the nipple due to having the surgery with an extremely low bodyfat percentage...

Im not asking for just experts to reply here. To anyone who reads this, from your experience, what do you think? If anyone IS aware of the actual medically correct explanation then please post that as well.

As for now I'm just going to live with the gyno and continue to get into shape (larger amout of muscle with low boyfat overall being my goal) while not expecting the gyno to get any better and possible expecting it to get more pronounced or pushed out. I just dont want to have the surgery until I know the best possible time to get it or until I know the outcome and its effect on what I mentioned above as I said.

Thanks for reading/replying

[AntherGuyWGyno]

Thanks for the reply JerseyGuy. I know working out is tough. I've been working out since the beginning of august but not knowing what I've been doing for a while in the beginning while trying to figure everything out. Starting out overweight and looking back I definetly know that I was under-eating and overtraining and at this point Ive come a long way from where I started but I'm still very much trying to figure everything out. Ive been working out at home with free weights, a bench with leg extention/curl. a bench with a freeweight barbell with a lat pulldown station thing on it and the rest is with a large dumbbell set that I invested in. Its not as good as the heavy duty isolation equipment in some cases but It still is getting the job done to the extent that I want it to right now and I find it a lot easier to work out at home.

As far as the diet goes, I've been eating clean, which is easier for me to do bc im vegetarian but Ive also been trying to pack on high protien non-meat foods and have been taking whey isolate. I'm not expecting to wake up and be a professional bodybuilder over night. I know it takes a long time and I'm dedicated to at the very least making sure that I'm moving in the right direction rather than sitting around and not getting anywhere but in worse shape.

I have one question to ask that you didnt really answer but I was hoping you would as I was reading your post. Having said what you said, do you recommend actually getting as big as possible and reducing my bodyfat percentage to as low as possible before going into the surgery? Will it make the surgeons job easier if he has muscle seemingly shrink wrapped in skin with a ugly gladular breast sticking out?

I'm just trying to figure out what I should do. Do I plan on having the operation sooner and then plan on getting into shape afterwards while not worrying that lowering by bodyfat will reveal "gland" that the surgeon missed. Or should I eventually switch from a bulking phase to a cutting phase and reduce my bodyfat % as much as possible before the operation?

What do you think I should do?

Thanks again.

[jerseyguy81]

I honestly couldnt tell ya. That would probably something that the surgeon you choose would be able to answer.  It seems on the post op pics the guys that are leaner going in have some nice results and seems that they never go back for revisions.  That's just speculation, though. 

I know for me personaly I think I'd rather just let the chips fall where they are since you'll be healing during post op for as long as a month or two.. which unfortunately means limited physical activity.  I know when I get the procedure done I'll be enjoying the time away from the gym with some junk food hehe.

[manic91m9]

based on your photos i would suggest that it is possible that you could look like that with surgery and excercise. however you NEED to be prepared to accept a number of different results. you do apear to have a reasonable build to start with but you  need to set more reasonable goals to work to start with so you can achieve them faster and just see how you go. looking better is still better. there is no such thing as perfect. the picture u posted is not perfect in my opinion. it doesnt have any flaws but there are many different bodytypes even in bodybuilders. it is totaly unrealistic if you are expecting to look exactly like that photo.

[AntherGuyWGyno]

thanks for the replies guys. yeah Im not expecting to look exactly like the guy in that picture. I understand that everyone has a different bodyshape. what I mean is that I will do the best I can to build up my muscle mass and reduce my bodyfat so Im hoping to one day look the best I can possibly look. Im not expecting to look like the person in that photo. What I was asking is if its possible to have gyne surgery and be able to build up the muscle and reduce the bodyfat and not have it look all wonky and inverted or lopsided or something.

Also, do you guys (or if there are any surgeons) think that I should have the operation now, closer to the shape I'm in in that picture? or do you think I should build more muscle and then drastically reduce my bodyfat. Which makes it easier for the surgeon? Which way will help me get closer to my goal to look as phusically fit as I can eventually?

So surgery now, or surgery after I reduce my bodyfat percentage to as low as I can (within a healthy range of course)...??

Thanks in advace for the replies!

[manic91m9]

i would get your bodyfat as low as you can, have the surgery then gain the muscle that way if there is any leftover skin it will be filled by the muscle. i have dropped my bodyfat but i plan to gain muscle after surgery. i also couldnt find the motorvation to gain muscle given that i still wasnt confident with my chest.

[AntherGuyWGyno]

In retrospect I've realized that I didnt really mean "perfect" chest, but instead meant lean, low bodyfat muscular chest as depicted in the example photo i presented, even though that is  a bit extreme and not necessarily the great extent that I am speaking of. I was wondering if the unbalanced look after the fat/gland removal would make this "look" impossible to attain or if it would look awkward in any way if someone had the surgery and then tried to build up the muscle in their chest and reduce bodyfat.

I wondered this because I've read before on these threads and other information articles that every male has a certain layer of fat on the chest that makes up what in some cases is a normal chest contour in a non-gynecomastia situation. So I was thinking if a doctor performed the surgery and removed too much tissue, or too little (for the sake of creating a "shape" that looked good at a particular bodyweight) that this might or might not make it impossible for someone to build up chest muscle and reduce overall bodyfat drastically to attain that traditional muscular chisled chest look (one which is far less extreme than in the photo I presented above).

Well, Ive tried working out for a long time and I can tell for sure that with reduced bodyfat the gynecomastia didnt go away, although it did seem slightly smaller it also seemed more noticable considering i look leaner all over but that area has generally remained looking fatty. I am planning on booking a consultation with Dr. Lista of Mississauga ontario this upcoming week and I will present him with this question as well. Even if its not possible or is unlikely it still puts me in a better position than I am now with a better physique but with a remaining fatty looking chest. Maybe nobody knows becuase nobodies really tried or maybe the guys who had the surgery and got into such great shape just couldnt be bothered to even remember that they had this problem to post a reply into a forum thread like this one. lol. I guess I'll just have to find out for myself. Thanks for the replies to those who replied.

[matthew1]

First off, lets not use the word 'perfect' because there is no such thing, especially if you have surgery.
fact: gyne surgery is not an exact science; there are no gods among surgeons that can make everyone's chest contour flat yet natural.  Having said this, there are many surgeons that deliver consistently good results.  (I believe Fielding is one of them)

why not an exact science?  because the surgeon's ability is only part of the equation.  factors such as YOUR ability to heal, method/tools used by surgeon, and proper healing procedure...as well as the composition of your gyne...all contribute to the outcome.  some cases are 'easy' to correct some are 'hard'...think about loose skin

regarding muscle: no, the surgeon does not touch any actual muscle tissue.   chest muscle development and shape has nothing to do with fat+gland sitting on top of it. lifting weights will NOT rid you of your 'man boobs'  but it will make the chest muscles under your man boobs bigger and possibly more masculine looking.

indents: everyone has fat and gland in their chest...even the 'normal' guys.  we have more than the average amount (of either gland, fat, or both) and that's why we're here.  cant know 100% whats gland and whats fat in there until they cut you open and look inside (roughly speaking)  you can't just yank out the gland, OR just suck out the fat, because they have different shape and consistency.  MOST of the time, you need to do a combination of both.  also, you cant take out ALL the gland, OR ALL the fat...then you get an indent (nothing between skin and muscle) ...again, this is a somewhat crude outline

pretty much any question you asked with the word 'perfect' in it...the answer is no.  do NOT expect perfection because you will be disappointed.  aim for IMPROVEMENT. do NOT use someone else's physique as a benchmark for your own physique.  simple reason: everyones physique is different, and everyone's genetic ability to reach/mintain a certain build type is different...not everyone has what it takes to be a bodybuilder (just because he can doesnt mean you can)

final note: surgery leaves scars...some fade some dont, some big some small...this depends on your genetic make-up.  then there is the subject of scar tissue, but i won't get into that.

do your homework and good luck.

DAMN good post  !!!!

[buyside]

I wondered this because I've read before on these threads and other information articles that every male has a certain layer of fat on the chest that makes up what in some cases is a normal chest contour in a non-gynecomastia situation. So I was thinking if a doctor performed the surgery and removed too much tissue, or too little (for the sake of creating a "shape" that looked good at a particular bodyweight) that this might or might not make it impossible for someone to build up chest muscle and reduce overall bodyfat drastically to attain that traditional muscular chisled chest look (one which is far less extreme than in the photo I presented above).

Muscle and bodyfat will increase or decrease INDEPENDENT of how much gland the surgeon removes.  The only thing the gland will do is affect how your chest appears since that will be a combination of bone structure, muscle, fat, gland and skin.  If you eliminate the "gland" part of that equation, then you've just eliminated one of the variables that will "shape" the chest.

I think what you're asking in a roundabout way is if you can improve the shape of your chest post surgery.  The answer it yes, you absolutely can.  Keep in mind everyone has certain genetic limitations but you can certainly achieve a  more musucular chest (and body for that matter) with smart training and a good diet.  You may not be able to look like the guy in your OP but you can CERTAINLY make big improvements. Hope this helps.

[matthew1]

I have gynecomastia. I'm like 5'10 and 165 lbs. I wouldnt say I'm over weight at all but I'm nowhere near my fitness goals right now. For the past 4-5 months I've been weight training and trying to change my body shape and overall physique and for the most part its working.
My chest muscles definetly are bigger now, at least from what I can feel, but I wouldnt say it necessarily made the gyno any worse.

this is my chest now


In this next pic I'm trying to grab just the gyne part. The top of my chest looks big but thats just bc of the muscle. The only part that I can actually grab thats soft is the part im grabbing in the pic. The part of the chest above what Im grabbing is pretty much rock solid muscle directly below the skin.


My eventual fitness goals is to have a physique and chest that looks like this:

Right now im bulking but I will reduce my bodyfat and eventually attain that physique if its the last thing I do. I've already come pretty far from where I started.

Now im going to start with the questions. Ive read in other posts in this message board about having "indented" chests after having the surgical gyno reduction. Is this simply because these are men who are going into the surgery with a large amount of fat over their whole chest due to simply just having a higher bodyfat percentage? I mean based on my pictures if a surgeon took out every single bit of fat and gland from my chest, would it be indented? I dont want to have any fat left on my chest I want to eventually have a low bodyfat percentage like that picture above and have a completely hard big muscular chest.

Also, If I have the surgery (which Im thinking of having with Dr. Fielding in Toronto, ontario, canada) no muscle will be removed/damaged or misshapen because of the liposuction will it?

Also does the fact that I have a glandular and fat man boob mean that my muscle has grown misshapen too? Or does everyone with gyno have a perfectly shaped muscle buried underneath?

Most of the guys ive seen before and after pics of went from not-athletic looking with boobs to not-athletic looking without boobs. Which is awesome and more power to them but I'm wondering if its possible to go from not-athletic with manboobs to a perfect muscular physique with a lot of hard work... Or am I just asking too much?

 My goal is to get a  body like this

   http://files.samhart.net/humor/fat-guy-in-jungle-for-aargh.png

  I hope  my PS can help !

[Paa_Paw]

Not only is the concept of perfection totally subjective and non-objective. It could be argued that the concept of perfection is actually perverse.

I have never heard of a person who actually achieved perfection and was still mortal.

[Time_to_fix_it]

I have never heard of a person who actually achieved perfection and was still mortal.

My ex wife thought she did