Sometimes something comes along and sets you right back....

[man-chest-r]

I dunno about the rest of you, but my lifetime of gyne has been one where you get on with things and then someone makes a comment or taunt which is really crushing and makes you just want to disappear. But you can't so you get on with things, and they may go along for OK  for months and months, and then it happens again. So, after years I decide to do something about it - surgery, and I also try to get counselling. And hey, it happens again.....

This letter is to the complaints dept of my NHS provider. Read on:

Dear XXX,

....I am assuming that this email is for the time being confidential between me and you, and that you will not proceed further without clearing with me. That being the case, I will outline my complaint.

For my adult life I have had a condition which is deeply embarrasing, and has caused me a fair deal of psychological pain.

It is called gynecomastia. It means that I, as a man, have un-normally enlarged breasts because in adolescence I developed some of the glandular tissue normally only found in women.

Late last year, I decided that I needed to confront this, and I saw my GP, Dr X. I have only the highest praise for her for the sensitivity with which she has dealt with my case. Subsequently I have had surgery, privately, to deal with my condition, and I am now still recovering.

I returned to Dr X in late November to say that while I was pleased to be able to deal with my physical symptoms, I needed help in addressing the longer term psychological consequences of the condition - arising from taunts and so on - which, unanticipated, came to a head as a consequence of my seeking surgical help. Dr X said she would refer me to the XXXXXXX team and gave me a copy of a letter which said I should ring them in about a week's time.

I called on December 7th, and was told an appointment would be sent to me in the post. I waited, struggling with my work and home life, to be honest, but in the knowledge that an appointment was coming. What I got, around 22nd of December was not an appointment, but another exact copy of the letter that I got from my GP, Dr X.

As you might imagine, I was unhappy about this. I called again, but there was only an answering machine response. I left a message which made my distress clear, and I think I said I wanted to complain. But at no time was I rude or agressive, as the tape will confirm.

After Christmas, I got a call - I can't remember exactly when. Again, I expressed my concern, but at all times was polite and measured, as the person who first answered the call at my home will confirm. I was told then that an appointment would come. Today, it arrived, for February 7th.

It should be concerning enough for you that it it takes from late November  until now for an appointment to be fixed for a real and immediate problem. However, more shocking, and deeply deeply distressing to me was that the letter was addressed to "Mrs [Man-Chest-R]". I find it very very hard indeed to believe that this is a coincidence or accident.

I am asking you to investigate this complaint, and explain to me what it is you intend to do as redress to this deeply hurtful incident given my condition and the particular kind of help I was seeking.

I am also asking [you] to find an alternate source of counselling for me, as soon as possible. [You were] supposed to help me, but .. made things much much worse.

Please restrict all contact with me to emails. I am not to be telephoned on this issue.

[Grandpa Bambu]

However, more shocking, and deeply deeply distressing to me was that the letter was addressed to "Mrs [Man-Chest-R]". I find it very very hard indeed to believe that this is a coincidence or accident.

Yeah, someone intentionally was making fun of you. As they all do...   

Someone owes you an apology dude...

Just like at the MLB 1992 World Series. Someone in Atlanta USA, put the Canadian flag on the pole upside-down. An 'upside-down' flag means: distress. Officials in Atlanta said that it was 'accidental'. BullShyte! Accidental my a$$.

GB

[gabbyhey]

I think i'd lose it.  Whoever did that doesn't deserve to breathe anymore.  Period. 

[Hypo-is-here]

Perhaps I am missing something here but, am I correct in saying that;

You asked for an appointment in late November 06 and have been given an appointment for Feb 07?

If that is the case then you have not had any delay at all in the NHS, none.  The rule for referrals is that routine appointments can take upto 16 weeks via gp referral, so you are going to be seen well within that time. 

I don't think for one second that you can argue that your situation requires urgent referral as that is something handed out to patients diagnosed with cancer and awaiting treatment or people with heart disease that might not make a routine appointment...if you catch my drift.

I think the letter you received was wholly unreasonable and grounds for complaint but honestly I don't see any problem at all with the referral date unless I am missing something. 

I know this might sound harsh, but if that is the extent of your problems with the NHS then all I can say is lucky you- things can be a 1000 times worse than that.

P.S

I hope you get who wrote that letter though- that would be justice.

[NotFedup]

ermmm....
i think you should go back and read the 1st post dude!

[Hypo-is-here]

ermmm....
i think you should go back and read the 1st post dude!

I live in the UK, I have gone through the NHS system for many illnesses over 20 years including gynecomastia surgery and I even briefly worked in the NHS.  I have also carefully read what has been said.  Instead of implying that I am somehow remiss or that I have in some way failed to ascertain what has been said, can you please detail what it is that you are referring to? Thx

[man-chest-r]

Hypo, I have had some great help from the NHS, eg from my GP, and from the endocrinologists, who have been absolutely brill.

You are probably right on the time thing; but it is sad if it is so, in that I had an immediate problem and the gp would have happily dished me some prozac and signed me off work, but I didn't want to go that route.

 I think maybe too, there is a contradiction between what we are told about about mental illness being as important as physical - I guess what I was needing was a psychological equivalent of some first-aid or minor A and E - timeliness was an issue. Cancer patients likewise, and sure, I am not in their position, thank god, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

But that aside, I think the whole process could have been handled better, irrespective of the address thing, which really was crummy, and which I am told now was accidental but I don't believe.

For all its faults, the NHS is a wonder, and so are most of the people who work in it.

[orrible*]

Im a bit confused, your username is what they refered to you in the letter by on here, which was by chance? So im assuming your surname is Machester, and theyve come up with the same username you did and made aj oke out of it in the letter? Is that correct? If so then i would imagine someone could lose their job if you made a serious complaint.

[Hypo-is-here]

Hypo, I have had some great help from the NHS, eg from my GP, and from the endocrinologists, who have been absolutely brill.

I am pleased that side of things went well for you, that is very nice.  But in any event I am not here to prop up or support the NHS, it does many things wrong and is a FAR from perfect system.  I was only commenting about the time frame involved for your request to see someone regarding your other issues.  I don’t think it was remotely out of keeping with the NHS or particularly bad given the scope of this institution.  That does not mean to say that in an ideal world one would not want better- of course we would.  I just thought that you had the idea that the time frame was horrendous or out of keep9ing with the NHS- which it is not.

You are probably right on the time thing; but it is sad if it is so,

I agree that in an ideal world we would all like better and it is sad that you didn’t have help when you needed it.  But igiven the limitations of the system and the urgency of such things, I think a perspective is need.  Not easy when you’re not feeling well I know.

I had an immediate problem and the gp would have happily dished me some prozac and signed me off work, but I didn't want to go that route.

I don’t think you did have an immediate problem, I think you had a problem for which you wanted an immediate response the two are not the same.  That said I agree with what you are saying about the Prozac issue.  Unfortunately too many people in the UK have this irresponsible attitude to thinking that antidepressants are a catch-all magic bullet medication because of all the crap they have been fed as supposed education. 

I think maybe too, there is a contradiction between what we are told about about mental illness being as important as physical - I guess what I was needing was a psychological equivalent of some first-aid or minor A and E - timeliness was an issue. Cancer patients likewise, and sure, I am not in their position, thank god, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

You are right that two wrongs do not makes a right, but I also think you are being overly dramatic about your situation (sorry no offence intended).  I understand the problems, I know- but it is difficult to understand the true context of urgency unless things are much worse than this.  The limitations of this less than great institution mean that life and death matters are regarded as urgent.  Obviously physical matters where a lack of treatment may threaten life is high on the agenda and then to a lesser extent issues of a mental nature where an individual is a threat to him self or others is also considered with urgency.   As desperate as you may think you are- I guarantee that you wer highly unlikely to be a threat to yourself or others- I think as tough as this has been for you- you can admit that.

But like I said I am not here to defend a system and an imperfect one at that.  I just explained that the time frame was not out of order or wrong in terms of what you typically get in this system and on a separate note am saying keep some perspective.  You may think this is as tough as life gets- trust me it certainly isn’t and I say that without downgrading this in any way.

But that aside, I think the whole process could have been handled better, irrespective of the address thing, which really was crummy, and which I am told now was accidental but I don't believe.

Life craps on people and it does so in much heavier ways and without any fault made by such individuals.  I am not asking you to be pleased, not only could things be better, but also I agree the person who wrote that letter is an idiot and you and in fact everyone deserves better- but keep a perspective.

For all its faults, the NHS is a wonder, and so are most of the people who work in it.

I don’t agree with the NHS being a wonder, I think it is riddled with faults, I also think half the people working in it are average/poor.  But there are also magnificent/wonderful people working in the NHS as well and some real jewels in terms of certain hospitals and services.

P.S

You sound like a good honest soul who has just been somewhat frustrated, part of which is understandable….best to you!

[man-chest-r]

I know I am a good soul, I don't need telling or patronizing.

If I had been told that the service from the counselling was not available in the time that it I was told it was, or that I would have been lied to in terms of the conversations that I had had about availability, or that if I was to complain when what I was told would happen didn't that someone would have thrown it back in  my face by sending me a letter addressed "Mrs" then I could have found help elsewhere. But I wasn't. And it made it worse. Remember, first do no harm?

Hypo, I don't need your psychological insights on me, and you are not qualified to give me a diagnosis about my state of mind, or how immediate my problem is. Overly dramatic ? That makes two of us taking themselves too seriously then.

[Hypo-is-here]

I wasn't trying to patronize and I find your mail very aggressive and not in the least understanding of what I was saying, despite it being very reasoned.

I was not and did not try to diagnose you, and frankly what makes you think that you can talk to people in the way you have is beyond me.

You need to get a sense of perspective, because currently you just don't have one.

I agree that things could be better with the NHS, and I agree that the letter sent to you was disgraceful and that there may have been an error with regard to when you thought you were going to be seen but;

Your appointment was WELL within the time limits for routine and soon appointments in the NHS.  The time frame involved was appropriate given that it was with 16 weeks rule set for these appointments.

You did NOT need to be seen urgently, urgent appointment are set for those with life threatening conditions- something you do NOT have.

I have received urgent appointments, I had one when I had liver cancer and several tumors and I needed a ten and a half hour operation and two thirds of my liver removed and I received one when I needed an operation to remove bladder cancer. 

I know the importance of urgent appointments.  Also I understand the perspective that comes from being through very serious matters in my life, frankly right now I am hearing someone who has been given an operation moaning about something that is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things.

Don't try and tell me that this is not the case or that I do not understand.  I too have had gynecomastia, quite severe gynecomastia at that and I know how significant it is, but I have also had cancer twice, osteoporosis, hypothamic/pituitary disease, peripheral nerve neuropathy and in the last six months my daughter died.....I know what perspective is and I know what hard times are....you are being overly dramatic and moaning about something that is relatively small. 

I've agreed with you where you have been hard done by and disagreed with you where I think things have been done properly.  Your having a go at me is simply because you don't want anyone to think or disagree with you, you want warm wooly thinking, nodding dogs and someone to listen to the "woe is me".

The kindest thing is not to just be nice but to talk the truth and Ive done that whether you like it or not.




 












 

[kingboob]

Well, the way they addressed the letter to you was totally unacceptable and someone should make an apology for that.   

Mental health is just as important as other health services in the NHS and someone with a bad back or hip problem wouldn't be treated like that. (in terms of the letter)


However, I think the time line is totally in keeping with the NHS in general, although this is an important issue it could not be consistered urgent by the standards the NHS is forced to set.

Emergency mental health services ARE there (IMO) for those in desperate need, I know from personal experience that if you are right on the edge, having a breakdown and liable to do something stupid then they can & will get you seen by a doctor within hours and they can fast track you onto various therapy sessions with a CPN if they see fit.

I think in this case it is just a situation where you have to sit tight and wait your turn.... I would be tempted to keep notes of everything bothering you so that when you do get to see someone you don't miss anything out. 

Personally, I would probably not bother to go ahead with the complaint - Probably it will just cause more stress for you whilst not actually getting the messege through to whatever idiot decided to pull the stupid prank.  However I think you have 110% a reason to be complaining.

[man-chest-r]

Hypo, you are right, what has happened to me is nothing to what has happened to you, and I am truly truly sorry that you have had such a terrible terrible time, for me it would be my worst nightmare. All I can do on a message board is send you a message of support and solidarity, and thank you for your contributions to the board, which have helped so many, in the face of all you were experiencing.

All I was saying is that I asked about timescales, and if I had been told the truth at any stage, I could have tried to sort myself out elsewhere. And, what I would say is that  holding my job down, and keeping my family together, both of which were threatened by me coming to terms with all the stuff I had been through in my life as a consequence of gynecomastia is worth an hour of a counsellors time.  Not as serious as what you have been through, though, I fully agree.

I would have paid, happily, but was told, no, this is what the community mental health service is for. No gyne isn't cancer or a bereavement, but this is a gyne board, and I think it fair enough to raise it here. Again, hypo, I hope I am never in your position, and dread being in it.

To everyone else, I am glad I made the complaint, because my experience, and that of others on the board is that the NHS can (not always) trivialize gyne. I'm not going to sue or pursue in any way, indeed I got a "sorry" and that is fine by me; but I was not going to let it pass. Maybe I over-reacted, but then maybe thats why I need some therapy.... 

 But my subject title was also important, as was my initial posting, that one just gets so pissed off with the constant taunts, and I just wanted to be able to say that among people who might understand for the first time in my life.

[Hypo-is-here]

man-chest-r,

I read your last post and like other earlier posts that you have made I agreed with a lot of it.

I think you massively over-reacted to one specific post I made earlier and unfairly so and that is where we had our issues, but I have agreed with a lot you have said, sympathised and I was just trying to tell you the truth. 

I have also said that you had every right to complain (not that you need to be told that by me) about that letter and I hope that person gets what he deserves.  I also agree that people should be given a reasonable idea of when appoitments are going to be made.

My only points that the time frame involved was correct and that a perspective of the bigger picture in life (something important both in its own right and in the context of the NHS) didn't deserve a tirade of abuse.

I think you felt I patronised you as well.  I can tell you hand on heart that what you felt was patronising was actually genuine sympathy and support.  Sometimes very genuine heartfelt sentiment can come across wrong on a flat message forum- you made a mistake.

I think if you look back through our posts before our spat that I was trying to be both supportive and at the same time realistic.  You can't expect people to agree with everything you have to say, I was trying to be supportive on the one hand but instead of wrapping you up in cotton wool, I was also trying to state where I honestly disagreed.....it would have been a lot easier for me to have just agreed with every word you said...but that would have been cheap and easy.

After some of the things you said that were unwarranted and very harsh, I feel my language was also then at fault and harsh.  I think what I was saying was still in essence correct, but the language was not helpful and not supportive.  I do genuinely wish you the best and I apologise for retaliating with that unhelpful and unsympathetic language.

Perhaps in future you too might think a little before launching into a tirade of abuse?  Sometimes you can get these things wrong, and not understand peoples intention particularly on a flat message forum.

P.S

This is over from my point of view and there are no hard feelings.

 
 

 



 

[man-chest-r]

hypo, its over from my point of view too. We (that means I) gotta remember we are on the the same side.