Depression and anti-depressants with Gyne (kinda) ???

[tonysoprano]

Im gonna try keep this short and sweet.

Had mild-medium gyne (non-fat gyne) for around 5-6 years (approx age 19/20-25). Ive had 2 surgeries since feb 2005, and still not happy, just happier (maybe 30-40% less unhappy with my chest, but still not happy like the average weight/height guy on the street would be with their chests) Thats why I wrote "Gyne - kinda" in the subject line. Technically its not exactly gyne anymore.

Long story short, alongside the gyne I have also batttled with depression on and off (mostly on) for the best part of the last 7-8 years too. (not so sure if the depression came from the gyne, because there were many hints and subtle symptoms of drepressive feelings and behaviours before I had the gyne, but then again the gyne could have and probably did make it many times worse)

Im now 11 months post op no2. ( and 23 months post op 1), still unhappy with the chest as I stated, but now very depressed (all the time, even when Im not thinking about my chest).
I have for a few years now, only socialised once a fortnight where I will go with friends to a party,bar,rock band etc and basically I have to medicate (becuase I am so socially inept and "down" and cynical at 26 years old) with alcohol by getting shiitfaced and loosening up that way. Apart from that, I dont really do anything else social at all, just go to work and come home and stay around my house whenever Im not working

so to the point... Im just starting a therapy program now and it seems I may/more than likely have to go on to or "trial" one or more types of antidepressants as prescribed (Ive been on a few kinds in the past, but none since I was a teen) , and taking AD's makes me very concerned for 2 big reasons.

1. I am worried that some of these can cause/re-ignite my gyne to come back or fuuck around with hormones that will ultimately bring back gyne or cause new case of it.

2. It goes without saing that aLMOST all AD's make people gain weight, which I refuse to accept happening to me.


SO IM JUST AFTER SOME ADVICE as follows:

1. does anyone know which AD's do and dont have reported or suspected links to gyne, so I know what to avoid being prescribed?

2 Does anyone have any experience with these or have any other advice about treating/managing fairly severe depression (Im not catatonic or anything), without taking drugs that affect brain chemistry?>? ie. cognitive behaviour therapy or other methods that could help?

cheers folks
T,

ps. anyone been through/going through similar shiit - feel free to pm to chat or if ya got any advice...

[gabbyhey]

I've never heard of anti-depressants causing gyne to come back.  Also, I was on anti-depressants when I was a teenager and I mentioned to my doctor that I didn't want to gain weight.  First he was going to prescribe prozak, but then after I told him that, he put me on a different drug.  I can't remember what it is, but there were other options.  And I didn't gain weight.

[gynogone]

Prozac won't make you gain weight.  Or get gyno, as far as I know.

Today's AD are much different than yesteryear's. 

Have your testosterone checked by an endo....low test can cause depression / gyno.

Alcohol would make depression worse, if anything.

Maybe an exercise routine.

Many are in your same boat.  Don't feel too alone, most people your age can't socialize that well and aren't really THAT interesting...that's why they drink.  Maybe get a hobby or something to occupy your time so you can't feel so miserable.

[mtnman]

Hi Tony,
Hang in there buddy!  I suffer from bouts of depression also, but have found that when i go and hit the health club (pump iron & cardio) all week, i am a much happier and motivated and self confident person!
Not trying to sound like a holy roller, but i would say that my greatest strength is knowing that God is there with me every step of the way, and will help me get this straightened out.
I have been on the drug Amitriptyline, just 50mgs now, for depression and insomnia for about the past 10 years...and i just found out the other day from one of the posters here that Gyne is a side effect of that drug!!!       i guess i must have missed that one when i read the side-effects sheet!  I have always had puffy nipples since puberty, but this drug help create more breast tissue or glandular tissue in my chest.   
I am going to be getting off the drugs and working with dr's to balance my neurotransmitters the more natural way, which by the way worked with my sister and she had HUGE success 
The drug Amitriptyline is one of the older drugs that was used for depression, but mostly just a pain med and sleep aid now is what i am told. 
Good luck Tony,
mtnman

[headheldhigh01]

gyne is almost a sure ticket to depression issues.  but as bad as it has been at times, i never went on the stuff because call me a skeptic, but what i read is in most cases you adjust to it, so 3-4 weeks out you get dependent on many or most meds and can wind up worse off than before, i think no matter what the official medical line is. 

[Hypo-is-here]

You have to remember that depression and insomnia are also often symptoms of hypogonadism/imbalances relating to high estradiol, (although of course he can and often are independent of this) and hypogonadism is an associated condition and known cause of gynecomastia in 10% of all sufferers.

Hypogonadism/high estradiol and altered brain chemistry and resultant depression is often misdiagnosed as regular depression.  I know many guys who have been misdiagnosed as simply having depression when they had these problems and such cases are well detailed in Dr Malcolm Carruthers first book the Testosterone Revolution. 


So then;

Can you have clinical depression independently of the conditions I have mentioned and of gynecomastia?

Yes of course.

Can gynecomastia in of itself cause clinical depression independently of the conditions I have mentioned?

Yes of course it can.

But!

In keeping with the multimactoral nature of depression, it can also be cause by altered brain chemistry as a result of the conditions I have mentioned.  If anyone doubts this fact then I would urge them to purchase Dr Carruthers book and read the case studies and also read more generally about these matters.  Also with 10% of all sufferers having this condition that is associated both with depression and gynecomastia....well it is something that requires ruling out prior to being medicated with antidepressants.

It is also worth saying that depression cannot and does not cause gynecomastia, but the conditions I have spoken about do cause gynecomastia.


If I recall correctly Tony, you had quite a high level of estradiol but you couldn't get this medicated given the conservative endocrine stance in Australia?

It is possible that high estradiol and maybe low free testosterone are contributing to your situation.


If you go on the antidepressants and the gynecomastia seems to get worse and you feel worse in yourself then I would seriously look at trying to re-evaluate your endocrine health.

Antidepressants are obviously the right medication for some people and can be very helpful.  However if the cause of the depression is that of the conditions I have mentioned then they do not work properly as they do not treat the underlying cause of the problem.  In fact in such situations they can make matters worse by reducing the effectivness of testosterone.


So......if they don't work well and/or the gynecomastia seems to be returning you will need your endocrine situation re-evaluated by a forward thinking specialist.











   




























 

[tonysoprano]

Hey everyone thanks for the replies,

Hypo, youre correct. I did have "upper bracket" levels of estradiol about a year ago , but I havent had any bloods taken in a year or so, but the last I was told was that I was "normal" (by an endo in the andrology dept. at a public hospital in sydney) , mostly due to the following observations of theirs at the time (feb 06):

a. I had a deep voice
b. I was well well hairy
c. he felt my nuts and said they were "healthy size" with no tumours,etc
d. All my items ordered on the bloods were "within normal range"
e. THAT ALL HORMONES AND ANDROGEN LEVELS ARE CHANGING "EVERY 3 MINUTES" ANYWAY.

when the young endo there realised I was still paranoid and concerned he called in a senior female endo, who spent a grand total of 3 minutes looking at my bloodtests ( the items my gp had tested for upon your advice 12 months ago), looked at me quickly and said that I had no problems in terms of androgens and I should be happy I was fine.

My nips have puffed out again a fair bit since my op, but it appears to be the kind of puffiness ( as my ps also states) caused by scar tissue formation rather than looking like/having the look of the type of gyne/nipple puffiness that is often seen as a result of hormone influenced-gyne reccurence in some post-op cases. For me the chest contour and everything is perfect and flat , even the aerola's borders are flush to the skin. Its just the very centre of the nips that has puffed out since I was approx. 6 weeks post-op (which is "apparently" down to scar tissue) ... and I dont doubt that either.

the depression and lack of morning boners - that may or may not be another thing.

Ill pm you though sometime soon, to see if I can get any more of a conclusive take on why the eastradiol was so high when tested a year ago.
Ill pm you with more about this matter in the next few days, whn I get more time to come on line.

cheers folks
Tony

[tonysoprano]

ps.

Hypo : 2 things pertaining to advice I have seen you give to others in similar situations....

a. you have said that estradiol cant be looked at in isolation. so if everything else was actually fine, then would eastradiol testing in the mid-upper half of the range (on its own) really matter ?

b. I recall that my bloods were taken at around 4pm. I have seen you state that anything past 9-11am is deemed invalid. (also woul 9-11am also be standrad for those individuals who have a bedtime of 2,3 or 4am or does that make no difference to cicadian biorhythms?)

thanks pal

[Hypo-is-here]

Hormonal pathology MUST be taken in the morning- afternoon tests are simply NOT valid. 

You have a lack of erections, depression and have had gynecomastia all coupled with high normal levels of estradiol.

All I can do is shake my head- Austalia is a total joke when it comes to dealing with these matters- more draconian than the UK even, really sad.

If I were you I would seek out a Well man Centre- they used to exist in Perth (if the government haven't managed to close them down).....I would not be bothered about distance of travel if I were you- your health is paramount.  Either that or I would travel to the US if you can with a view to seeing Dr Eugene Shippen.  Post your results here so I can look at them again- they might give me another idea- even if they aren't exactly valid





 

[tonysoprano]

Ill see if I can dig them up.

[Worrier]

1I used to be on antidepressants.I can tell you the ones that did not cause gyne in my case (everyones body is different) were prozac and effexor.Those two are pretty weight neutral too. The one that caused weight gain  and mean more fat got on my chest was Zoloft. I think I put on stones of weight very quickly.If you decide to take one lookat the side effects leaflet for a mention of gyne. Do not rely on this totally and the best option is to get the prescribing info on the net . Find out the name of the company that makes the drug and find their website. The prescribing info has too tell you every side effect recorded by people taking the drug in trials.

2 Iam not a huge believer in meds for depression . I  think far too many people are on them when they simply need a lifestyle adjustment.Doctors should not hand these drugs out like smarties.However they have helped one person I know.I still have depression and anxiety now and again but I find running seriously helps me and is a very good antidepressant.In fact my Gp is thinking of starting 'exercise prescriptions' for certain cases of depression as an alternative to medication. Another option is therapy or simply talking to a close friend.Sharing problems can help.

[tonysoprano]

Ok I have a psychiatrist appointment coming up this week, and I have a strong feeling he will be strongly suggesting a.d's for my case of depression.

I already:
-eat a very healthy pescatarian diet
- take zinc and multivits. daily - have been for a few years
- eat plenty veges
- try to get sun daily
- run 4 miles every second day (+ do situps every now and then)
- drink alcohol (albeit to the point of drunkeness - as most do) only once a fortnight on average
- am 100% drug-free

theres really not much more I can do in terms of  liifestyle changes/behaviour/etc..

I guess I could add things like swimming,yoga,kinesiology,acupuncture,st johns wort,etc, but I think theyd all be a big stab in the dark at this stage. I have already been depressed to different extremes for 6 years + now anyway.

What I wanna know is :
If I am left with no other option but to go on a.d's, which are the ones to stay clear of as far as those that have an incidence of causing gyne and those that lead to weight gain.

taking any a.d's that may lead to weight gain is simply not an option I will consider, so if anyone knowsm of any types of ad's that do not typically cause weight gain or have any iondications to causing gyne, Id really like to know..

It would be especially helpful if anyone here thats taking meds for depression/anxiety could tell me what theyre taking, if there are any side affects and if the meds is helping, as I wanna be informed on my  best options, if the psych. I am seeing begins to recommend different types of meds.

thanks fellas

[tonysoprano]

* Bumpety bump*

aND..Thanks billy!

You still taking prozac ?
Any weight gain?

Is it making you feel happy? or just not sad? like is it just keeping you in the middle, or do you still get highs (and presumably lows)?