Author Topic: Use of pronouns  (Read 321 times)

Online Justagirl💃

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From a perspective of AMAB and intersex identifying as Female, I believe that I have at least one valid opinion on the use of pronouns.

It seems our current political environment is entrenched on either side of the debate, where you have people who aren't gender fluid supposably fighting for people who are and the opposing team as well.

From my standpoint, it is very rewarding to be addressed as ma'am. That being said, I would not feel any benefit whatsoever if being addressed as ma'am was because of "obligation".
The reward is based on earning the compliment.

I would not expect anyone including myself to address someone as ma'am simply because they wore pink and had lipstick on whilst supporting a long beard and male attire.
I would be careful not to offend the individual, but "ma'am" would not be a pronoun that would automatically come to mind.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we should always be polite, but not go out of our way to "obligate" people into pronoun use that obviously "doesn't fit".

If the person standing in front of me looks obviously feminine, I will address them as ma'am. If there is a question involved, I would address them as politely as possible until I figured it out.

I personally would never wear a tag stating my preferred pronouns. I think that takes away the magic of hearing them.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2023, 09:05:20 AM by Justagirl »
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Offline tryingtoaccept

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Very good point Birdie.  If someone is obviously trying to present as a particular gender I will address them as such.  Like you said, if I am in doubt I will address them neutrally until I am sure of what they want.  I also think that is the proper and respectful thing to do.
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Offline p.r.1974

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I was taught mam and sir growing up, so it was almost automatic early on. Not wanting to out anyone by accident, or cause them social stress with their people has made it less automatic for a couple decades. I suppose it comes down to rule 1, regardless of plumbing, don't be a "d".

Online Justagirl💃

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I was taught mam and sir growing up, so it was almost automatic early on. Not wanting to out anyone by accident, or cause them social stress with their people has made it less automatic for a couple decades. I suppose it comes down to rule 1, regardless of plumbing, don't be a "d".
I keep it polite and neutral until I know otherwise if doubtful. 

But if it's obvious, I will make the person feel great about themselves as I address them by the obvious.

Example is the person that works at the mall. I address them neutral even though it's apparent that they are possibly transitioning. It's not really obvious yet, but getting there. 
I wouldn't walk up and say, "what's up bro", that would be disrespectful. 

Offline Gotboobs

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I have long hair and boobs. When it’s windy I put it up in a high ponytail and through my ball cap. I get called ma’am a lot. I really don’t care about pronouns. I go with what they call me and go with the flow. No harm no foul. My wife gets a giggle out of it even after all these years. I don’t have a masculine face or body. How are they to know. 

Online Justagirl💃

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Personally, I dress and leave the house everyday presenting as "myself". That is who I am, and how I perceive myself in my eyes. I do my hair and pick cute outfits (even if I am to attend the day-centre where androgynous is required).

For the most part strangers will perceive me the same, and address me accordingly. I am perceived as a woman quite well.

If by chance (rarely) I am addressed otherwise, I don't get upset either. I can't force people's perceptions anymore than they can force mine.

I'll answer politely to however I am politely addressed.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2023, 09:37:45 AM by Justagirl💃 »

Upfront

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Before all this  wokery thing became in vogue I always said I didn't  mind what  anyone called me. Same with pronouns, if no offense is meant  none is taken.
When greeting some for the first time I react to what I see. At least there is then a mutual understanding of an honest mistake

Offline p.r.1974

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Agree. As long as people are polite, there is no issue. If someone is intentionally trying to be a d, then it is their problem, small mind and other things. They are not worth the cost of calm to give any time to, other than to note for any future encounters.

Offline Evolver

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Before all this  wokery thing became in vogue
Going off on a tangent here, but I think the outrage that some folk have over wokism is confected. The reason that there is more noise about it nowadays is because those folk making the noise are becoming more desparate.

None of this is aimed at you, Upfront, as criticism. Just society in general, who often use the woke term as an insult. I take it as a compliment. To me, it is confirmation that as a progressively minded person, conservatively minded folk are being left further and further behind from the reality of modern society by comparison. They are incapable of change; incapable of imagining a world that is different from the one that existed the day they were born. So, they are running scared and becoming hysterical.

OK, climbing down from my soapbox, when being talked to directly by a stranger, is there need for a pronoun at all? If I go for a walk and say "Good Morning" to a stranger, that should suffice. No need for "Good morning, ma'am" or "Good morning, they!" Why is there a need categorize people at all?

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No problem with that Evolver.
Same tune just different harmony

Offline taxmapper

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IMO  its something different. 

Every time the political part comes out I have to cringe and laugh at the same time. 

The cringe comes from the fact that politically speaking this was not an issue unless someone made it an issue. 
The source of that is IMO something far deeper. 

But I have also come to discover in my journeys that there is a huge blurring of the lines taking place, (or more accurately took place) and the media not being the friend of the common man is pitting groups against each other for their own enjoyment. 
Others took off the blinders and finding that what they were told was a lie designed to keep people grouped to be controlled. 

Offline p.r.1974

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I tend to agree with the power and control side of things being deeper, For me, that includes following the money; investigation 101. If people become more focused on accepting themselves and others as they are, the money train from "You're not enough without this" will come to a screeching halt. And when they are told that gender affirming care is necessary, the insurance companies will have issues with profit margins when they will be required to cover it, Unfortunately it is not covered in the US.

I don't have any proof, but it just seems possible that some companies and individuals may wish to sway things to maintain the power and control they believe they have. While I believe that some nut jobs have gone way out of the realm of reality with their conspiracy theories, I also believe that is by design to have a scapegoat of scaring off people looking into things that could actually be.

Offline taxmapper

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I tend to agree with the power and control side of things being deeper, For me, that includes following the money; investigation 101. If people become more focused on accepting themselves and others as they are, the money train from "You're not enough without this" will come to a screeching halt. And when they are told that gender affirming care is necessary, the insurance companies will have issues with profit margins when they will be required to cover it, Unfortunately it is not covered in the US.

I don't have any proof, but it just seems possible that some companies and individuals may wish to sway things to maintain the power and control they believe they have. While I believe that some nut jobs have gone way out of the realm of reality with their conspiracy theories, I also believe that is by design to have a scapegoat of scaring off people looking into things that could actually be.
I follow patterns. (Why I fit in so well with GIS.) 

One pattern to consider is this: 
As of recent times there is this huge push to define "gender" as ONLY binary.  The people who spew out this are the ones telling everyone "...don't take my word for it, go look it up." 

So I did. 

What I have found is a plethora of information PRIOR to the 20th century (meaning they knew and understood and accepted as fact) that there are many biological variations. 
The use of the word "gender" is not what the modern pundits say, and worse.. those who spew out the "sex isn't gender" poison have themselves NOT researched that statement and clarified it for the general public. 
Just using it as a political football to kick around. 

The current political climate is toxic and those who espouse it are either evildoers with nefrious intents, or useful idiots who are the foot solders of a given army. 

VERY few have done the homework to understand this statements. 

Thus I continue to sit on the periphery and watch with popcorn as the arguments go on, wearing my clothing and contemplating having an ultrasound to see if I have girl plumbing. 



 

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