Gynecomastia Support Forum
General => Gynecomastia Talk => Topic started by: chicagobuffed on February 01, 2005, 01:31:43 AM
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I'm confused, I thought that if you the glandular tissue was excised and if appropriate liposuctioning was performed that gyno can't grow back. I've had a friend who had the surgery done and he's never had a problem again with growth ever. And in his terms he said his gyno was like the size of softballs. And he has a great looking chest now.
I know that bodybuilders who get this problem from anabolic steroids usually get this done and it's never an issue again.
My situation is I do take cycles of testosterone, by prescription by a medical doctor. I'd like feedback on what you all might know, think.
Thanks.
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If you take injections or other means of testosterone you should have your estrogen E2 levels checked. If the "T": E2 ratio is less than 10:1, you probably are going to grow breasts.
example "T" of 500 & E2 of 50
E2 levels should be in the 20s.
It should be well over 20:1 or even 30:1
It is the high Estrogen E2 that binds to the estrogen receptors in the male breasts & cause the growth.
You normally need a little bit of E2, but not high levels.
If the underlying cause of the breast growth is not corrected then the surgery is temporary.
There are several causes of the hormone imbalance.
Surgery is not a cure-all for all your problems.
It will not make you into an instant babe magnet & make you smarter.
Good luck
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Serum figures are particularly problematic because they give a very poor guide to active levels.
With serum testosterone you have to take account other factors such as SHBG when looking at the figure otherwise you might as well just throw the equation in the bin.
Total estrogen is also a bit problematic because it does not always equate to active levels and because very often the quality of the assays to measure estogens are calibrated around female reference values and are often not accurate when measuring the smaller quantities in the male endocrine system.
Best bet is to not take steroids unless you medically need to. Then if your estrogen appears high, whatever your system of measurements from bodily symptoms, to free measurements of hormones, to serum measurements etc that you put in place a management regime to keep your estrogens/estradiol at a healthy level. Where SHBG is a culprit have it lowered with the relevant medication that can be provided by your endocrinologist.
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Well as mentioned earlier, my friend had glandular tissue and fat that was like softballs. He still did testosterone and it wasn't a problem anymore. My logic was if the glandular tissue is all gone then there isn't anything for estrogen to bind to, to cause it to grow. He does get itchy nipples now and then but that's the worse of it and nothing had grown back. I do take anti estrogens like arimidex and also take an anti prolactin. This has helped anything grow any further. Well I am going to have the surgery again this year. I'll make a new post to let you all know how it goes.
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My situation is I do take cycles of testosterone, by prescription by a medical doctor.
Why, what for and why do you take the other medication?
The situation regarding gynecomastia returing is not as simple as you believe it to be. Gynecomastia can and does return in those with hormones problems, whether that is because of taking steroids or having poorly treated or non medicated hormone disorders.
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I checked out his website, thanks gyno51. Impressive website. As far as my friend who had the surgery, he hasn't had a problem with it ever again. He was a bodybuilder taking over a 1gram of testosteron with no gyno side effects. That's A LOT. Anyway whatever my friend had done I want to not have this be a problem again, I hope to have my friend's fortune.
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chicagobuffed,
Your bluffing as far as I can see.
You are not on testosterone via prescription but are abusing streoids.
No advice from me.
It's not even like you are being honest.
If I have got this wrong fair enough but please explain how?
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I do get my testosterone legally. Sorry you don't believe me. I take more than is necessary to deal with fatigue and naturally low levels of testosterone. Yes, I am a weight lifter and I want to get bigger but I'm not taking them at levels like my bud was.
Actually I don't care if you believe me or not. The issue here is about gyno and how to manage it completely. There are bodybuilders who have this taken care of and it's not a problem anymore. But whatever, I had the surgery done once already and there wasn't any excision done so basically I paid for liposuction. But I did want excision of the glands.
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I take more than is necessary to deal with fatigue and naturally low levels of testosterone. Yes, I am a weight lifter and I want to get bigger but I'm not taking them at levels like my bud was.
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Ok
What type of product do you take and what are the prescription guidelines?
Who did you see to get diagnosed and what did they say was the cause of your problems?
Maybe you are right. If you are I understand why you say what you do. But also you must understand why I question also, So?
If you are not telling the truth just say so and you will get help anyway!
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You didn't "question me." You basically called me a liar in the gentlest way possible. And to use the term "abusing" steroids. I'm not an abuser. I wouldn't call Arnold Scharzenneegar oh however you spell his name an abuser of steroids. However in text book terms, if he didn't have a prescription for it, then he is indeed an abuser. Imagine that, a governor of a state an "abuser of a substance." A person who now regulates the most poweful state in the nation who built his life by doing what isn't considered legal. And everyone loves him for it. Me? I'm just some abuser, just some faceless guy on this board. But if medical justification warrants the use then it isn't abuse.
Well aside from having fatigue ever since I exited my mother's womb (you have no idea how I was the quietest best baby in the world-cuz I always slept and didn't cry or whine), which I can't seem to have diagnosed correctly and now being immuno compromised by an infection in my adult life, the stimulation of my endocrine system that I get from taking tesosterone and decca have allowed me to function normally and not need 14 or more hours of sleep per day. And it was my idea to "cycle" and come off to give my hypothalamus and endocrine systems a rest which my doctor thought was a good idea.
My doses are my f-u-c-k-i-n-g business. I will admit that I take more than is necessary. I won't lie and say that I don't like the way it makes me look. However like I said it gives me the energy to get through the day. So unless you wanna pay my bills cuz I can't hold a job (and who can if you can't help but sleep more than 14 hours a day from extreme fatigue?), don't go judging me. None of this bull s-h-i-t is important anyway. I had mild gyno before I ever did steroids, steroids just made the situation worse. My chest has always been painful.
No need to carry on anymore, I got my answers, it can't be 100% eliminated.
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chicagobuffed,
I said in my first post,
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Your bluffing as far as I can see.
You are not on testosterone via prescription but are abusing steroids.
No advice from me.
It's not even like you are being honest.
If I have got this wrong fair enough but please explain how?
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Can you see the last statement?
I apologise if you think I called you into question, but it is me being honest and I did allow for it all to be coincidental.
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I wouldn't call Arnold Scharzenneegar oh however you spell his name an abuser of steroids. However in text book terms, if he didn't have a prescription for it, then he is indeed an abuser. Imagine that, a governor of a state an "abuser of a substance
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Of course he was an abuser!!!!!
Just because some people want to hold him up as an icon does not mean he hasn't done things wrong!!!
He has got away with steroid abuse because he has very good genetics and a good endocrine system coupled to the fact that he has had clever biochemists advising him on how to avoid things like gynecomastia. He is an appalling role model for you to hold aloft!!!!
With regard to yourself I am not going to comment further one way or the other because you are abusive and because you exhibit much that to my mind associates you with steroid abuse and not hypogonadism, which the single requirement for testosterone as far as I am aware.
P.S
You need to calm down
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I never liked Arnold Schwartzeneeger, just for the record.
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hey guys chicago is looking for some answers, no need to flame him. If you dont know about using gear just shut up. But chicago if your getting it from the dr for low test levels you dont cycle it you just continually take shots but w/e. I have done a few cycles of test. If you are going to do another cycle you MUST use the proper anti-estrogens like nolvadex and/or femara or armidex. these drugs act in different ways. 1 blocks estrogen from attaching to the receptors the other 2 stop test from converting to estrogen. these drugs will not block progesterone or prolactin.
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Thanks gogotren, I do take arimidex and I take dostinex which is a dopamine inhibitor that lowers prolactin levels. And if I'm not mistaken if you lower estrogen levels either by blocking the receptor site(nolvadex) or by preventing the conversion (armidex) then your progesterone levels fall too. I think I did read that somewhere, you have to have estrogen levels to have progesterone. But I am taking care of prolactin. If you know of the right medication to block progesterone specifically by all means please chime in. I heard of Faslodex.
Another reason I cycle the juice is to minimize the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. To go in great detail here is going to be a lot of typing but trust me I am doing my homework on this and it's working reasonably well.
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gogotren,
I was not flaming anyone I was asking valid questions to ascertain the reasons for steroid use before deciding to offer any advice, that is my prerogative and I was utilizing it for a very good reason.
By taking arimidex or other anti estrogen drugs without prescription and without a doctors explicit approval an individual opens themselves up to a lot of potential side effects.
You do not know chicagobuffed, so why should you advice him to use these drugs?
Bad advice my friend!
Anyone who has serious hepatic, renal, bone density issues or history of blood clots should not use these drug.
If chicagobuffed had any of these, something you wouldn't have known, you could have caused him serious health problems.
Additionally someone using these drugs without the correct knowledge and pathology investigations can easily lower their estrogen/effects of estrogen too much and suffer from fatigue/lethargy, libido and erection problems and can throw their thyroid function out and cause metabolism problems.
gogotren quote "If you don’t know about using gear just shut up".
In a word NO!
I will not censor myself for you, so someone who thinks he understands steroids can go and offer stinking advice.
I know far more about steroids and their effects than you do, it just so happens that I support their legal use as opposed to illegal abuse.
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chicago for blocking progesterone you can use bromocriptine aka bromo. You should have blood work done first to see if you even have progesterone or prolactin problems and exactly what your estrogen levels are. If one of them is not an issue for you then you dont need to be taking the drug to counteract a problem you dont have. now hypo.... do i need to put a disclaimer after all my posts as to my qualifications and that you should consult with your dr or atleast do research on the products i mentioned? I would assume a person to do a lil more due diligence on a drug before taking it, not just buy something and take it and not understand the drug, that is irresponsible, yet people do it everyday. I can tell your knowledge of steroids and their use is very limited and swayed by the media. I know many people with scripts from a real doctor for test injections. These people are bodybuilders, what they are doing is legal though becuase they have a script, guess that is ok with you then. Steroids cycled in moderation are for less toxic than the common cigarette.
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I have bromocriptine as well, bromo and dostinex work pretty much in the same manner, it's just that bromo is an older drug so people are familiar with it. They're both dopamine inhibitors. I have a lot of knowledge in this area as well. I study it daily. I'm going to ignore Hypo from now on, he's a difficult person who wants to argue back and forth, for whatever reason I don't know. I have better things to invest my time in.
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You also make a good point about cigarettes gogotren. Let's not forget about alcohol that has impaired people's ability to drive a car and that has cost so many innocent people their lives. But hey if the government allows it for the sake of their wanting to get their tax money (same as cigarettes) then hey that's okay. Ignorant people will judge me for making well planned decisions while those that drink and smoke themselves to death and affect others in the process of damaging their own health (i.e. second hand smoke, or drunk while driving) aren't judged like me. And I do have a script but whatever.
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gyno 51: 90% of people who use juice dont work out by time there 30? where did you get those #`s? your right tho there are a alot of irrisponsible people who are dumb asses that take gear. alot of problems with steroids come from using orals also. i finished my last cycle 1 1/2 month ago, my blood pressure today was 110/68...she said that was good. chicago, glad to see you educated yourself a bit, glad to here about bro`s being smart. are you on any message boards bout gear? pm me i`ll give you some good ones. oh yea... i had my surgery done today also. These fuckin drains are uncomfortable, but it will all be worth it when i`m riding my motorcyle this summer with no shirt to the beach.
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gyno 51 your def. a bit out of the loop on gear and how available it is. deca and var along with all the others are very readily available, from dr`s scripts to vet grade to underground labs. and no i dont judge my lhealth just on my blood pressure that is just 1 part of a very long equation
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gogotren,
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I can tell your knowledge of steroids and their use is very limited and swayed by the media.
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Do some reading around these boards and I think you will find differently.
If you mention anything like this again we can have a full on discussion on these boards where I WILL show you that you actually know very little about steroids.