Gynecomastia Support Forum
General => User Photos => Topic started by: errible on May 22, 2012, 05:03:12 PM
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After using beta sitosterol and saw palmetto (marketed as prostate medication) in an effort to slow the progression of my hair loss, I'm rather sure I've acquired gynecomastia. I've become markedly depressed; this is not at all what I need right now on top of going bald at 20 years old.
Do I have any (non surgical) options, having caught it relatively soon after its initial onset? Please, any input is appreciated. How bad is it, really?
Finally, my doctor told me it will likely go away over time, as I have now stopped the medication completely. I'm skeptical, and unsure that this would be a probably outcome. I've seen cases on hair loss forums which contradict what she is telling me. Thoughts?
(http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r543/mushr2/gn3png.png)
(http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r543/mushr2/gn2png.png)
(http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r543/mushr2/gn1png.png)
As an aside, I'm rather worried I'll end up like this gentleman; http://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/34/new-here-my-photo/
Who took a similar prostate medication, then stopped, but his gyno continued to grow. Any insight? Are there preventative measures I can take?
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I took Saw Palmetto (2x320mg a day) for about a year to treat BPH and developed a full B cup breast. I felt soreness in my chest for months and ignored it which was not a good idea. After months of soreness and tenderness it seemed like one morning I just woke up with breasts! I'll bet 90% of the growth occurred in about a months span.
I am in my late 40's and have had BPH for nearly 20 years. The good news was that my BPH symptoms all but disappeared and my thinning scalp filled in nicely (something I was not expecting at all). Despite the improvement in the BPH symptoms and hairline, I gave up the Saw Palmetto once I did some research and made the connection to gynecomastia. That was over a year ago and my breasts have not changed (for better or worse). I am afraid I am stuck with them at this point. BTW, it was that research that lead me to this wonderful website!
I will not elect to have surgery. I am overweight and probably not a good candidate for gynecomastia surgery anyway so I am trying different ways to hide them. My wife says I should not worry about what other people think and I should not even bother to try and hide them (easy for her to say). I am very aware of what they look like and how they jiggle and I'm quite embarrassed.
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I took Saw Palmetto (2x320mg a day) for about a year to treat BPH and developed a full B cup breast. I felt soreness in my chest for months and ignored it which was not a good idea. After months of soreness and tenderness it seemed like one morning I just woke up with breasts! I'll bet 90% of the growth occurred in about a months span.
I am in my late 40's and have had BPH for nearly 20 years. The good news was that my BPH symptoms all but disappeared and my thinning scalp filled in nicely (something I was not expecting at all). Despite the improvement in the BPH symptoms and hairline, I gave up the Saw Palmetto once I did some research and made the connection to gynecomastia. That was over a year ago and my breasts have not changed (for better or worse). I am afraid I am stuck with them at this point. BTW, it was that research that lead me to this wonderful website!
I will not elect to have surgery. I am overweight and probably not a good candidate for gynecomastia surgery anyway so I am trying different ways to hide them. My wife says I should not worry about what other people think and I should not even bother to try and hide them (easy for her to say). I am very aware of what they look like and how they jiggle and I'm quite embarrassed.
Hi Frank,
MY photos are somewhere around. I have a pair of 54DD breasts. They look smaller than Jim38C because my chest is so much larger. For all sorts of reasons I'm not a good surgical candidate and if I were there are several procedures I would have done before breast removal but none of it is affordable. I have come to acceptance of them. I'm a nudist and they really make no difference. At this point I would prefer they looked better since they are going nowhere. I work out in the back yard without a shirt and around here the neighbors make faces and close their curtains. One neighbor won't let his grandchildren or wife out back if I'm out there. I suppose he thinks they are infectious or something. The old lady behind shuts all the curtains on the backside of the house and won't let her hubby out.
Nothing much ever seems to affect them. They did shrink a little, all the way down to DD, when I lost 85 pounds of water accumulated because of health problems. They do make an interesting conversation piece with some of the nudist ladies but in no way interfere. They have gotten me a number of "you can feel mine if I can feel yours" offers with some of the ladies. When I do exchange massages the ladies usually have me do their breasts too. So I can honestly say they have become an asset since the hell of junior high and high school. Otherwise, at the nudist clubs they are a complete non-issue. Outside the clubs it bothers a few who ignore me ostentatiously and attracts the bullies who in their attempts to bully merely hand me a straight line to make them look ridiculous. The only real problem is that they cast shadows that makes for tan lines which I would prefer not to have but I don't sit out tanning so there it is, a problem only for a nudist. I do get to sit around with the ladies comparing their breast shadow tan lines.
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Unfortunately its highly unlikely that it will go away over time. Once developed gyno is a permanent condition, even with the causative agent removed -in your case the medication.
Surgery is the only curative option. However, the internet is full of claims about pills and creams. These are based on little or non existant scientific evidence and you would do best to avoid them.
The drug tamoxifen has been studied for its ability to treat gynecomastia. It would be fair to say that it has some success. However, it has only ever proved beneficial in the absolute earliest stages of gynecomastia development, I mean the first weeks - couple of months. Even then it does not work for everyone and when it does work the effects could be minimal or may just relate to helping with tenderness. Personally I wouldn't recommend it. it may produce all kinds of side effects and it should only be prescribed.
BTW i think your chest looks good
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There are a lot of things worse then gynecomastia and going bald! How would like to spend the rest of your life in a wheel chair unable to walk, or not have the use of your arms to scratch an itch?
I always try to look at the ways I have been blessed instead of the bad things that have happen in my life. I have had my share, feel free to read "my story after all these years" in stories. To me having double "Ds" are nothing more then a hang nail!
God put hair on the head of some men, and others he made bald! On some he gave big breast, and others he made then small.
I also agree, your chest looks fine.
Bob aka Hammer
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Thanks for the replies everyone, much appreciated.
It's rather unfortunate to hear that the gyno will unlikely go away over time. Beginning to question my GP..
The drug tamoxifen has been studied for its ability to treat gynecomastia. It would be fair to say that it has some success. However, it has only ever proved beneficial in the absolute earliest stages of gynecomastia development, I mean the first weeks - couple of months. Even then it does not work for everyone and when it does work the effects could be minimal or may just relate to helping with tenderness. Personally I wouldn't recommend it. it may produce all kinds of side effects and it should only be prescribed.
I'm seriously considering tamoxifen, as my gyno is rather recent. What kinds of sides are associated with it? I researched it briefly and couldn't find any that sounded too terrible.
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Estrogen blockers are better at preventing Gynecomastia and not all that good at treating it. That said, you might invest in some lab tests to see what your hormone levels are and talk to an Endocrinologist.
Many boys develop Gyecomastia in early puberty and have the conditions resolve without treatment as their hormones stabilize. In the same way, Gynecomastia caused by side evvects to drugs can also resolve IF the medication is withrawn soon enough. As your Doctor indicated, this happens rather slowly. The general feeling is that if the condition is essentially unchanged in two years it will not change. If the condition is going to resolve I would think you should see some sign of this in much less than two years. Obviously there are many of us who developed the condition and it did not resolve..
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errible,
While I am sure you believe your case is terrible believe me there are those of us who are FAR more noticeable. I am a full 38C on a relatively trim frame (as you are) so unless you continue to develop do not be too concerned about what you have.
Your doctor is more than likely ignorant as to what has/is happening to you, Saw Palmetto is used by men for natural breast enhancement so you should stop taking it if you do not want to continue your development. Additionally what you now have you are stuck with so unless you want surgery move on over the the "Acceptance" section of this forum.
As for hair loss, please remember there are ALWAYS side effects and breast development is one of them. Going bald is not so bad, believe me many ladies either do not care or actually prefer it. The same is true for your breast development.
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Paa_Paw, TigerPaws; thanks for the replies and input.
Estrogen blockers are better at preventing Gynecomastia and not all that good at treating it. That said, you might invest in some lab tests to see what your hormone levels are and talk to an Endocrinologist.
Many boys develop Gyecomastia in early puberty and have the conditions resolve without treatment as their hormones stabilize. In the same way, Gynecomastia caused by side evvects to drugs can also resolve IF the medication is withrawn soon enough. As your Doctor indicated, this happens rather slowly. The general feeling is that if the condition is essentially unchanged in two years it will not change. If the condition is going to resolve I would think you should see some sign of this in much less than two years. Obviously there are many of us who developed the condition and it did not resolve..
I will absolutely check out an endocrinologist, but I fear my options are limited. When I do go and see the endocrinologist, do you feel it would be worth it to try tamoxifen out for a while? Even if only to prevent the condition from worsening?
errible,
While I am sure you believe your case is terrible believe me there are those of us who are FAR more noticeable. I am a full 38C on a relatively trim frame (as you are) so unless you continue to develop do not be too concerned about what you have.
Your doctor is more than likely ignorant as to what has/is happening to you, Saw Palmetto is used by men for natural breast enhancement so you should stop taking it if you do not want to continue your development. Additionally what you now have you are stuck with so unless you want surgery move on over the the "Acceptance" section of this forum.
As for hair loss, please remember there are ALWAYS side effects and breast development is one of them. Going bald is not so bad, believe me many ladies either do not care or actually prefer it. The same is true for your breast development.
TigerPaws; I understand the extent of my gynecomastia is not necessarily terrible yet, and am entirely empathetic towards anyone having to deal with this condition, whatever the degree of severity.
It's more of just a shocker for me, and I worry it will get worse. Do you feel that since I've discontinued the medication entirely, the gynecomastia won't progress? Or is it tough to gauge such a thing?
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I would very much appreciate the boards opinion on this particular study;
ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts/2000marburg/researchabstracts/p27-ferrando.htm
"Three males aged 18 to 29 with grades II to IV of the Hamilton/Norwood classification developed unilateral gynecomastia after 2 to 6 months on treatment with 1 mg oral finasteride (one case with ProscarTM, 1/5 of tablet per day, two cases with PropeciaTM).[...] In all cases gynecomastia disappeared between 2 to 6 months after the treatment was discontinued.
Five mg oral finasteride (ProscarTM) used for treatment of benign prostatic hypertrophy can produce gynecomastia, so it would not be rare to find that effect with PropeciaTM. Gynecomastia is mainly caused by alterations of estrogen/androgen ratio. Finasteride decreases circulating dihydrotestosterone levels, increasing serum estradiol, so it could produce gynecomastia.Gynecomastia produced by PropeciaTM is transient and disapears if the treatment is discontinued."
As a final question; is it worth waiting to see if the gynecomastia gets better over time, or better in some instances to have surgery earlier on before the condition might worsen?
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I would very much appreciate the boards opinion on this particular study;
ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts/2000marburg/researchabstracts/p27-ferrando.htm
"Three males aged 18 to 29 with grades II to IV of the Hamilton/Norwood classification developed unilateral gynecomastia after 2 to 6 months on treatment with 1 mg oral finasteride (one case with ProscarTM, 1/5 of tablet per day, two cases with PropeciaTM).[...] In all cases gynecomastia disappeared between 2 to 6 months after the treatment was discontinued.
Five mg oral finasteride (ProscarTM) used for treatment of benign prostatic hypertrophy can produce gynecomastia, so it would not be rare to find that effect with PropeciaTM. Gynecomastia is mainly caused by alterations of estrogen/androgen ratio. Finasteride decreases circulating dihydrotestosterone levels, increasing serum estradiol, so it could produce gynecomastia.Gynecomastia produced by PropeciaTM is transient and disapears if the treatment is discontinued."
As a final question; is it worth waiting to see if the gynecomastia gets better over time, or better in some instances to have surgery earlier on before the condition might worsen?
Finasteride is a very powerful DHT inhibitor which suppresses Testosterone, it is one of the DHT/Testosterone inhibitors most preferred with the Male to Female Transsexual community. Take it long enough and your natural Estrogen which is normally overpowered by your Testosterone will become dominate.
Men have breasts which are exactly the same as women, the difference is that Testosterone is a far more powerful hormone and it overpowers your natural Estrogen. Given enough time Finasteride will shrink your testicles which will further reduce your Testosterone and well you see where this is going.
As far as your "condition" becoming more pronounced (developed) that will be very difficult to evaluate by any physician no matter what they tell you because each person is very different, it all depends on your genetics. If your mother has/had large breasts you could develop up to 1 cup size smaller than her though with Finasteride alone that is unlikely but not unheard of.
The best suggestion is to get off of any DHT or other medications that inhibit your natural Testosterone production (if possible), other than that you have a waiting game to see what develops :'(.
Look having real breasts (not sacks of fat) is not as bad as you might think, like anything else you will need to work through your own self esteem issues which will be a roller coaster ride. While surgery is always an option but know that there are always side effects and there is NO guarantee that what you "perceived" as an issue will be solved by what is nothing less than a full Mastectomy.
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Hell, I have become attached to my breast, somewhat! If they had to be removed I think I would miss them after all these years! Don't get wrong, I don't like or love them, but I have had them so long I don't remember what it is like not to have them!
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Hell, I have become attached to my breast, somewhat! If they had to be removed I think I would miss them after all these years! Don't get wrong, I don't like or love them, but I have had them so long I don't remember what it is like not to have them!
;D Well maybe someday those of us who need them will be able to wear a sexy bikini :o
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Hell, I have become attached to my breast, somewhat! If they had to be removed I think I would miss them after all these years! Don't get wrong, I don't like or love them, but I have had them so long I don't remember what it is like not to have them!
I have to go with hammer. These breasts have been part of me for 52 years. It would take a full double mastectomy to get rid of them. And for what gain? Making the neighbors more comfortable? I will NOT give them that kind of control over my life.
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I have to go with hammer. These breasts have been part of me for 52 years. It would take a full double mastectomy to get rid of them. And for what gain? Making the neighbors more comfortable? I will NOT give them that kind of control over my life.
Exactly, don't give them or anyone any control, be it the neighbors, insurance co. or the government!
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As always, thanks for the input everyone. I'm currently trying to schedule an appt with an endocrinologist.
I've just one more question, regarding surgery. I read somewhere on these forums that it would be wise to wait until gynecomastia is fully developed before pursuing surgery, as there is a risk that gynecomastia will return if done sooner rather than later. Is this true?
If so, what is a good amount of time to wait before pursuing surgery? How will I know if the gyno has stopped developing?
Regards,
errible
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As always, thanks for the input everyone. I'm currently trying to schedule an appt with an endocrinologist.
I've just one more question, regarding surgery. I read somewhere on these forums that it would be wise to wait until gynecomastia is fully developed before pursuing surgery, as there is a risk that gynecomastia will return if done sooner rather than later. Is this true?
If so, what is a good amount of time to wait before pursuing surgery? How will I know if the gyno has stopped developing?
Regards,
errible
Ok! A smart ass reply would be when you have finally filled out your bra. As for the real answer, no one knows.
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Heres the definition of gyno....... if you work out and are in shape usually everywhere but the nipple section. Which gyne is causing not to be defined.. out of shape people it is hard to tell.. this is gyne. like my case. surgery time. and lets hope the hairloss and gyne arent related to those mlb enhancers..
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What the hell happened to men having pecks? Half of these whiners have underdeveloped pecks! The other half have NHO, nipple hard on!
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What the hell happened to men having pecks? Half of these whiners have underdeveloped pecks! The other half have NHO, nipple hard on!
Hi Hammer,
Until I showed up at this site I thought gyne was rare. After all I saw very few guys carrying a pair like Jim38c or my DD or yours or whatever. I had no idea that nipples alone, NHO, or a barely bulged was gyne, much less surgical fodder. By that standard half the guys in high school harassing me in the showers had gyne and didn't even know it. What has happened that so many people are so charged up about something nobody notices except them in their own worst fears. That I don't get. Is this hypersensitivity about the body new or what?
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What the hell happened to men having pecks? Half of these whiners have underdeveloped pecks! The other half have NHO, nipple hard on!
Hi Hammer,
Until I showed up at this site I thought gyne was rare. After all I saw very few guys carrying a pair like Jim38c or my DD or yours or whatever. I had no idea that nipples alone, NHO, or a barely bulged was gyne, much less surgical fodder. By that standard half the guys in high school harassing me in the showers had gyne and didn't even know it. What has happened that so many people are so charged up about something nobody notices except them in their own worst fears. That I don't get. Is this hypersensitivity about the body new or what?
I think do to the media some think they need to look like the nuts you see on TV and in print that aren't even reality. The sizing of clothing isn't even reality! What is size 0? I think you should be able to take a tape and if you are a 44 you wear 44, if you are 24, well you know what I mean.
People have lost what is real and what is not! They spend money they don't have to try to be someone or something they are not, just be yourself, just as you are! Learn to like and love yourself!
Alchemist has learned and is a nudist if that is what it takes, do it, but for God sakes learn to be yourself and like who you are before you forget who that is!
It is better to be hated for who you are, then loved for who you are not!
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What the hell happened to men having pecks? Half of these whiners have underdeveloped pecks! The other half have NHO, nipple hard on!
Hi Hammer,
Until I showed up at this site I thought gyne was rare. After all I saw very few guys carrying a pair like Jim38c or my DD or yours or whatever. I had no idea that nipples alone, NHO, or a barely bulged was gyne, much less surgical fodder. By that standard half the guys in high school harassing me in the showers had gyne and didn't even know it. What has happened that so many people are so charged up about something nobody notices except them in their own worst fears. That I don't get. Is this hypersensitivity about the body new or what?
I think do to the media some think they need to look like the nuts you see on TV and in print that aren't even reality. The sizing of clothing isn't even reality! What is size 0? I think you should be able to take a tape and if you are a 44 you wear 44, if you are 24, well you know what I mean.
People have lost what is real and what is not! They spend money they don't have to try to be someone or something they are not, just be yourself, just as you are! Learn to like and love yourself!
Alchemist has learned and is a nudist if that is what it takes, do it, but for God sakes learn to be yourself and like who you are before you forget who that is!
It is better to be hated for who you are, then loved for who you are not!
Hi Hammer,
A lot of the ethic of the nudist society is body and self acceptance and acceptance of others. In Alchemy, one must accept ones self before making changes or the changes are all imaginary and unpredictable because it's like following the map without knowing if the map you are looking at even covers the territory, and of course the map is not the territory, just a representation. I've worked in the group health field for decades. Satisfaction with outcomes is most common where the problem is definite and the fix is definite. Where the problem exists in the mind surgery doesn't help. So the ladies that keep going back for bigger breast implants have unrealistic expectations. I see that here when somebody whose "problem" isn't visible to most others wants surgery. As somebody pointed out I would have been thrilled to have chests like most of the per-surgical folks unless I was looking a every "silly little millimeter" (remember 101mm cigarettes. If I had a 98% reduction in size I would be trilled and still larger than 75% of the people posting pictures here. But it would be a double mastectomy with all the inherent hazards including death, scaring, loss of sensation and so on and lots of money I don't have with a delicate health balance. I found self acceptance to be superior with the Alfred E. Newman approach, "What, me worry?"
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With all due respect to the forums owner and the physicians who donate their time to answering questions. In my very humble opinion far too many men are getting totally unnecessary surgery. There are serious risks and there are no guarantees and while I highly respect a persons right to do what they want, all to often I have seen physicians downplay what the risk/rewards are.
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Noone gets this surgery for fun.. it will help your mind, which is bigger than budlets.. if you have a problem with your nipples, they will never fix themselves. i regret waiting til 21. Its prob hereditary so ill have the surgeon rdy for my kid the first time i see a bulge in his shirt.. secondly most ppl.just have no clue what it is..
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Noone gets this surgery for fun.. it will help your mind, which is bigger than budlets.. if you have a problem with your nipples, they will never fix themselves. i regret waiting til 21. Its prob hereditary so ill have the surgeon rdy for my kid the first time i see a bulge in his shirt.. secondly most ppl.just have no clue what it is..
No offense intended but, the only way to fix your head is to accept what and who you are. Fix that first then decide of your "problem" is real or imagined.
My son had gyno and went on to be a decorated officer before being killed I Iraq. While I support a persons right to choose what they want to do with themselves no amount of surgery will ever fix a problem in-between you ears. To believe so is beyond foolish.
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TigerPaws, I am sorry about your son! I am a vet, 4 years Navy, 7 Army and gynecomastia also all the years during service. I agree with you as far as between your ears, as I said in the previous post, one needs to learn to like/love themselves, before they can do anything else, including love someone else!
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Noone gets this surgery for fun.. it will help your mind, which is bigger than budlets.. if you have a problem with your nipples, they will never fix themselves. i regret waiting til 21. Its prob hereditary so ill have the surgeon rdy for my kid the first time i see a bulge in his shirt.. secondly most ppl.just have no clue what it is..
Hi Coorsbright,
At 21, If I had a way to pay for it and the surgery had existed with the 8 years of utter misery I had with C or D breasts I had in Jr High, high school and college I would have been thrilled to get it, regardless of risks, "Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead." Of course it wouldn't have ended most of the crap as I was overweight and because of hereditary nutritional and metabolic problems that were unsolvable until 4 years ago. Being fat was ample reason for every bully in sight to go after me. Most didn't even know about the breasts.
At 19 I started dating the girl who had founded the college nudist club. I started teaching skiing at 19 and became a professional ski patrolman at 21. I was one of the best skiers on the mountain. The girls didn't give a damn if my breasts were bigger than theirs when the clothing came off. At 22 I got married and at 24 my life was changed with 3 fractures in my back, and damaged everything else when a truck ran a red light. At that point breasts became at most a minor annoyance, even a C or D cup pair and almost never interfered at all except in my own head and that rarely any more after that crash. The rest of my life has been spent trying to make a living despite the damage from the crash and aforementioned hereditary metabolic and nutritional problems. They are DD now, and a conversation item that occasionally gets me an offer from the ladies of "You can feel mine if I can feel yours". What a difference self acceptance, 43 years and $300,000 of health expense later makes.
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TigerPaws, I am sorry about your son! I am a vet, 4 years Navy, 7 Army and gynecomastia also all the years during service. I agree with you as far as between your ears, as I said in the previous post, one needs to learn to like/love themselves, before they can do anything else, including love someone else!
Thank you hammer.
I spent 25 years in the service, from Viet Nam to Afghanistan (yes there were U.S. combat troops there in 1987, 88 and 89) then again in Somalia, Bosnia, Iraq 1 & 2. That was the life I chose as did my son, he knew the risks seeing me go off to war time and time again, he saw me come home wounded, battered and at times beaten down.
He knew what he was getting into more than most, he knew the risks.
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Thank you for your service! I knew that we where there during those years as I was still in too, I spent time in the early 80's trying get Qaddafi! To bad we didn't way back then! Oops I don't think that was classified anymore, LOL. He is dead now? My discharge was April 1989!
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Thank you for your service! I knew that we where there during those years as I was still in too, I spent time in the early 80's trying get Qaddafi! To bad we didn't way back then! Oops I don't think that was classified anymore, LOL. He is dead now? My discharge was April 1989!
Sounds good hammer, I watched the Soviets cross the Freedom Bridge in 1989 for 5 miles away, and while "officially" no U.S. troops were in actual combat I did manage to kill a couple of Mi-24 Hind helos in the process of training the Afghan mujahideen.
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I have to be honest ! I do miss some of that stuff, but I love seeing my wife every day and my health started going to the dogs in 94 do to the diabetes, so that would have ended it all anyway. Truth is I had the diabetes all along and never knew it. I was told that I could probably get it covered by the VA, but I also heard the it isn't that hard to get VA coverage anymore anyway, but I have not looked into it yet. Debbie has good insurance however the place that she works at as been kinda rocky for a while now!
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I never got the chance to experience the military, not that it was necessarily desirable during the Vietnam war. When we were all called in for the pre-draft physical nobody batted an eye at my breasts. When I took the classification tests, the proctor called me to the front afterwards and gave me a slip of paper that would have caused me to be directed towards intelligence service. I already knew how to program computers by 1967. Then after the physical exam I was classified 4F because of my back injury in football a few years back and poor health history including multiple pneumonias.
The kid that attracted all the attention was a farm boy who showed up in his formerly white underwear but it was grey with patches of pink, yellow and green molds. Nobody wanted to get within 10 feet of him. He was pulled from the line by the first doc we paraded in front of. I had a lot of friends who served and too many that didn't make it back. It was a tough period wanting to support my friends while being against the gov't policies. I was totally freaked out about how I would be treated in the military with a pair of D or DD breasts at that time. All I wanted was to be treated like anybody else and not singled out as by bullies. I was treated horridly by coaches and fellow players in high school. The coaches were going to work those breasts off with lots of extra PT and laps and make me suffer for it as much as possible by making me play "skins" every time that ever came up. In Jr HS and high school there was not a single time I EVER played shirts in the usual shirts and skins setup.
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I didn't have any trouble for having breast! I could even kick the crap out of the wrestling coach and he took second in state in collage. It took me less then 30 sec to pin him. I only spent my summers on the farm, but thank God I'm a country boy! No one messed with me, and in the Navy the guys always said Petty Officer Ski can take any 3 or 4 guys and in the Army I was called Sgt Mongo! Damn I miss those days when I was healthy and strong!
I can't wait for Debbie to get home now from work to open me a bottle of beer, LOL!
Makes me wish all I had to worry about is itti bitty tittis!
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I didn't have any trouble for having breast! I could even kick the crap out of the wrestling coach and he took second in state in collage. It took me less then 30 sec to pin him. I only spent my summers on the farm, but thank God I'm a country boy! No one messed with me, and in the Navy the guys always said Petty Officer Ski can take any 3 or 4 guys and in the Army I was called Sgt Mongo! Damn I miss those days when I was healthy and strong!
I can't wait for Debbie to get home now from work to open me a bottle of beer, LOL!
Makes me wish all I had to worry about is itti bitty tittis!
LoL! Yes far too many are way to concerned about what is on their chest than what is in-between their ears. There are too many other "issues" to be concerned about than what you look like.
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Makes me wish all I had to worry about is itti bitty tittis!
LoL! Yes far too many are way to concerned about what is on their chest than what is in-between their ears. There are too many other "issues" to be concerned about than what you look like.
I am glad they are not in our military!
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Hello everyone
Thought I'd post an update, and have a question as well. Seeing an endocrinologist this Tuesday; hopefully he can provide some insight.
Question; My gyne being a relatively recent development, how long until a person's gyne can be considered 'well established'?
I read somewhere on these forums that it would be wise to wait until gynecomastia is fully developed before pursuing surgery, as there is a risk that gynecomastia will return if done sooner rather than later. Is this true?
If so, what is a good amount of time to wait before pursuing surgery? How will I know if the gyno has stopped developing? Is this mode of thinking incorrect?
Any insight appreciated, much thanks.
errible
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I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV!
However, if you think of it as a gardener, and you trim a growing tree, the tree will continue to grow, but if the tree has died and stopped growing, and you trim it or even cut it down it will no longer sprout new branches.
So I would say, looking at it that way it might be best to wait until growth has stopped. I do however recommend that a good endocrinologist may be a place to start to check hormonal balance in your system. As I see you have an appointment on Tuesday so I think you are headed in the right direction.
Good luck!
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Hello everyone
Thought I'd post an update, and have a question as well. Seeing an endocrinologist this Tuesday; hopefully he can provide some insight.
Question; My gyne being a relatively recent development, how long until a person's gyne can be considered 'well established'?
I read somewhere on these forums that it would be wise to wait until gynecomastia is fully developed before pursuing surgery, as there is a risk that gynecomastia will return if done sooner rather than later. Is this true?
If so, what is a good amount of time to wait before pursuing surgery? How will I know if the gyno has stopped developing? Is this mode of thinking incorrect?
Any insight appreciated, much thanks.
errible
Hi Errible,
I'll give you my history. Maybe it will help sort out the "when it is done growing" issue, or maybe not. When my mother changed my diet and made me fat (a very specific heritable genetic vitamin issue), in 3rd grade, by 4th grade I started getting fatter. I also started getting a fold of fat across the chest that makes for the fat boobs. Then when I hit puberty at 11 they started growing and by 6th grade I had C+-cup breasts. The doctor gave me the old "they will be gone in 6 months, do pushups". I got a set of barbells and started working out along with the next door neighbor with the same "problem". In fact a whole lot of classmates all got barbells that year, most of them growing breasts. When I went back a year later and I took off my shirt the doctor took one look at the now D-cup breasts and said "There are clearly not going away. Get used to them". My arms, and torso didn't stop growing until my late 20s. We are talking growing from 36" sleeves to 37" sleeves 1 inch in height and chest growing from 46" to 54" with breasts growing to DD or more depending upon fat level. This restarting of growth appeared to be because of a change from thyroid extract to Synthroid and getting out from under my mother's dietary control. Since about 30 they have fluctuated up to +1 or +2 cup sizes with more fat and water and down to DD as the fluid and fat is shed. However without the fat they stick out more than ever without the stomach.
I haven't had any drugs affect them that I know of but as one ages and hormones change and takes more medications and or herbs many of them can also cause breast enlargement. Half of those men having breast enlargement end up getting them as they age.
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Alchemist; hammer;
Appreciate the posts, thanks for taking the time to write. I guess I'll wait it out for a while and see what happens in due course.
The endocrinologist gave me a script for tamox (nolvadex), which I am currently running in hopes of seeing some improvement (as my gyno development is relatively recent).
These are the dosages I am currently taking;
""FOR GYNO REDUCTION"
Tamox - 40mgs ED (for the first 5 days.)
From there you can drop the dose to 20mgs ED, and if symptoms subside, continue use of 10mgs throughout the remainder of your cycle and into PCT."
as per source: forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?379916-quot-Estrogen-Control-Treatment-and-PCT-by-WARMachine-quot#.T-tJKLVSR_c
errible
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Alchemist; hammer;
Appreciate the posts, thanks for taking the time to write. I guess I'll wait it out for a while and see what happens in due course.
The endocrinologist gave me a script for tamox (nolvadex), which I am currently running in hopes of seeing some improvement (as my gyno development is relatively recent).
These are the dosages I am currently taking;
""FOR GYNO REDUCTION"
Tamox - 40mgs ED (for the first 5 days.)
From there you can drop the dose to 20mgs ED, and if symptoms subside, continue use of 10mgs throughout the remainder of your cycle and into PCT."
as per source: forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?379916-quot-Estrogen-Control-Treatment-and-PCT-by-WARMachine-quot#.T-tJKLVSR_c
errible
An endo is a good place to start, I would also suggest that you do a lot of your own research, you have more knowledge today at your fingertips than at any time in human history. Educate yourself on what is happening to you and what is going on in your body. While a good endo will be of help ultimately you are responsible for what happens now and in the future.
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Its pretty tiresome reading the same anti surgery posts. People need to realise that people come here to find ways of getting rid of their gyne, rather than getting preached at by people who've accepted it. If you accept your gyne then fair enough, but there are some who want to treat it!
If you've had gyne for more than two years, the drugs are a placebo. It depends how you developed the moobs, surgery tends to shrink the gland to a 1CM disk the only chance of re-occurrence would be if you were taking supplements (i.e Steroids, Hair loss treatments). If you've got the cash and the endo gives you the all clear get booked in ;).
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Its pretty tiresome reading the same anti surgery posts. People need to realise that people come here to find ways of getting rid of their gyne, rather than getting preached at by people who've accepted it. If you accept your gyne then fair enough, but there are some who want to treat it!
If you've had gyne for more than two years, the drugs are a placebo. It depends how you developed the moobs, surgery tends to shrink the gland to a 1CM disk the only chance of re-occurrence would be if you were taking supplements (i.e Steroids, Hair loss treatments). If you've got the cash and the endo gives you the all clear get booked in ;).
Sir,
With all due respect any and all surgical procedures carry risk, to deny that is disingenuous as best. I have helped bury men who have had a "Simple Biopsy" and while the procedure was a success the patient died. There are success stories and horror stories, both can be read on this forum. When someone goes under a surgeons knife they are taking a risk. In some cases it is necessary to attempt to save someones life, this is both acceptable and understandable.
Gynecomastia will not kill you, Period end of story. Any uncomfortableness someone feels about having gynecomastia is self induced which can be overcome without drugs or surgery.
It is still a free country (for now at least) so people are free to make their own choices. If a man believes that his lot in life will be improved by surgery then that is his choice, he will either reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of that decision.
But to suggest that there is only one course of action is narrow minded and a disservice to others.
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Thetodd,
You are correct. I am against surgery but for different reasons. It was my hope that the internet would make the truth of Gynecomastia widespread and the stigma of the condition sould simply go away. Instead, misinformation proliferates even faster than truth and young men are even more stigmatized than when I was a boy.
Fortunately, several developments in the 1980's brought about surgery that is safe and effective beyond the dreams of us who are now past the age of caring.
For some young men it is enought simply to know that they are not alone and they are actually very normal. For others, surgery is available. Each man must decide this for himself.
While some men describe their surgery as being very liberating, the bitter truth is that surgery will not change who or what you are. A shy person will still be shy etc.
The biggest danger is that a person will seek surgery based upon totally unrealistic hopes and expect to see the final result in mere days. Such a man will never be happy with the results of his surgery.
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I agree there are risks involved with surgery. People can die under the knife but if your young, live a healthy lifestyle then there is a minute risk of death. But yeah there are plenty of bad cases of seen on here from bad surgeons, agreed!
Unfortunately you basically have three choices with gyne
- Accept it
- Anti estrogen's, within a small amount of time
- Surgery
There is no shame in accepting it, at all! But i dont agree with the notion that if you elect to have surgery you are somehow weak minded. Ive spoke to hundreds of lads post op, who've experienced huge lifestyle changes after the op, im not saying its going to turn people into alpha males. But for some lads it improves their social lives tenfold.
But yes unrealistic hopes are a real problem, and on the flip side ive spoke to a fair few unhappy with surgery. Surgery certainly isn't for everyone, but id recommend it to anyone who's reached their breaking point.
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I agree there are risks involved with surgery. People can die under the knife but if your young, live a healthy lifestyle then there is a minute risk of death. But yeah there are plenty of bad cases of seen on here from bad surgeons, agreed!
Unfortunately you basically have three choices with gyne
- Accept it
- Anti estrogen's, within a small amount of time
- Surgery
There is no shame in accepting it, at all! But i dont agree with the notion that if you elect to have surgery you are somehow weak minded. Ive spoke to hundreds of lads post op, who've experienced huge lifestyle changes after the op, im not saying its going to turn people into alpha males. But for some lads it improves their social lives tenfold.
But yes unrealistic hopes are a real problem, and on the flip side ive spoke to a fair few unhappy with surgery. Surgery certainly isn't for everyone, but id recommend it to anyone who's reached their breaking point.
Hi Thetodd,
I've worked in the group healthcare business since 1979, at the software and data end, consulting, designing systems, analyzing results. One of the things we did was customer (patient, member - pick your preferred term) satisfaction. It is approximately inevitable that there will be a high percentage of dissatisfaction (unsatisfaction?) of surgery done for psychological reasons.
First half the guys posting here asking if they have a problem, don't really appear to have much more than a technicality, at least to me. Prior to reading this forum I wouldn't have even believed most of these guys have gyne. The extraordinary small growth, invisible to everybody but the person themselves and the surgeons, but not visible to "the common man" (or woman), causes a massive psychological fear and shame speaks to a different problem, a cultural belief that is not accepting of any body variations. First the women were set up to hate their bodies about breasts too big, too small, too pointy too round too whatever it is or isn't. And their hips, thighs, face, chin, nose, ears, eyes, hair, legs ("who wants the woman with the skinny legs?") and everything else is imperfect. Now the men are following the lead of "every body is too different to be acceptable". Instead of people seeing half the bare-chested male actors on TV having some degree of gyne and saying "Oh, I'm okay" as they see all these guys with bigger breasts than they have.
Looking at old pictures of Ramakrishna, a well known Yogi, it is easy to see he has one sided gyne as male chests are typically exposed in traditional dress. As a Shiva devotee he might have very well said he was personifying the combined alchemical marriage hermaphrodite form of Shiva (The Hindu god Shiva is often represented as Ardhanarisvara, with a dual ... with gender diversity such as Ardhanarisvara, Wikepedia )in which he has combined with the female Goddess and become one being with phallus and one enlarged breast (half man half woman sideshow style). He wouldn't even need to say so, others would see it as well. In India they can easily be holy men while in the USA they became sideshow freaks.
The degree of body shame we have here in the USA, UK and other similar cultures appears to be rather self destructive and causing of much ill health. This whole acceptance and expectation of body shame is the problem.
Getting out of junior high and that mentality where they are all sharks in a feeding frenzy for any perceived physical differences is good for a person's mental health. By age 18 and done with high school most of the actual problems disappear, it's only remembered harassment and the learned fear that goes with a person. And yes, a few adults with their minds left back in junior high school consciousness still act like assholes and bullies. Most don't. They act more like, well, adults.
Under the acceptance category, most people accept that they have these breasts, but still wince and hide at the thought of bullies. That isn't acceptance. At best that is slight toleration. If those bumps of flesh don't cause shame and distress, then one is bullet proof with the bullies and they go look for easier pickings.
I really have accepted my body, realizing that it is not unusual, no more unique than all others around me and past the first 3 minutes following introduction to non-nudists with a junior high mindset, nobody else at all cares.
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Let's put this issue in perspective -
When patients seek out cosmetic surgery from New York-based Dr. Oliver Zong, they're often looking to remove fat, but not from their bellies or thighs.
Zong is a podiatrist, and one of his specialties is slimming down people's fat toes -- "toe-besity," he calls it.
Now, he said, more and more people are zoning in on the smaller details of their feet, like the width of their toes.
For many patients, an odd-looking toe is a source of great embarrassment.
Brenner said a number of patients -- mostly women -- have come to her requesting cosmetic surgery. Several women hoped to have their pinky toes removed in order to fit into smaller shoes. She always turns them down, however.
"Why fix something that's not broken?" she said.
"I think it's the same as if you would ask for any kind of cosmetic surgery," he said. "They're very embarrassed by the situation and afterward, they gain self-esteem and feel more confident. Some people have said they're so embarrassed that their boyfriends have never seen their feet."
As soon as the swelling is gone and his toe is healed, E.R. said he isn't going to hide his feet anymore. He plans to ditch his sneakers for a more summer-friendly option.
http: //abcnews.go.com/Health/cosmetic-toe-surgery-rise/story?id=16750698
When I was a kid, more than 50 years ago there was a joke that was current at the time.
A young man and his girlfriend are getting undressed for the first time together. He is nervous about his body.
He - I've never gotten undressed with girl before.
She - It's okay, You look find to me.
He - I've had a few diseases that have caused me some deformities. I'm kind of sensitive about them.
She - It's ok. I'm not worried about them.
He - Okay, here it goes. Pants coming off. Please don't be upset about my knees. First he took off his pants
She - I don't see anything wrong with your knees.
He - they are terrible compared to what they used to be like before I had a terrible case of kneesals, a rare disease.
He - Please don't be shocked when I take off my shoes and socks. I have horribly deformed toes. As he said this he removed his socks.
She- I don't see anything wrong. What happened.
He - They are horribly deformed from a rare disease I had when I was younger, toelio.
She - They look fine to me. So go on, take off the rest and let's have some fun.
He proceeded to take off his shirt (this didn't originally include "breastoria" make up your own line.) Then he took off his underpants.
She - I see you also had the worst case of smallcocks that I have ever seen. Let's see if I can help you stretch it out.