Butchered?

[a019283ba]

I call this a butchered job. I got advice on this forum to NOT go to a person who isn't a specialist and .. well, being 17 at the time and wanting to get my man boob's gone, and family talking me into it saying that there's no risk....Here's what I got. I'm speechless. Surgery was in October. Well over 6 months post-op these picture's are. I...I don't really know what to say. I have shocking pains sporadically, burning sensations (I assume that's the nerves...they are everywhere. When I run my finger down the middle it sends a tingling sensation to both sides.) Umm..I don't really know what to say. I'd like an expert's opinion. I went to the doctor for 2 Post-Op appointment's before almost getting into a physical fight after a verbal one and I'm just torn. He told me all Gynecomastia surgeries look like this and everything is healing great...lol. The flash is a little bright but the left side indents about an inch, maybe 1 1/2 & the other .. I don't know. The nipples are shot apparently. I don't know if anything can really be done for me now. Expert opinion's only please.

[DrBermant]

I call this a butchered job. I got advice on this forum to NOT go to a person who isn't a specialist and .. well, being 17 at the time and wanting to get my man boob's gone, and family talking me into it saying that there's no risk....Here's what I got. I'm speechless. Surgery was in October. Well over 6 months post-op these picture's are. I...I don't really know what to say. I have shocking pains sporadically, burning sensations (I assume that's the nerves...they are everywhere. When I run my finger down the middle it sends a tingling sensation to both sides.) Umm..I don't really know what to say. I'd like an expert's opinion. I went to the doctor for 2 Post-Op appointment's before almost getting into a physical fight after a verbal one and I'm just torn. He told me all Gynecomastia surgeries look like this and everything is healing great...lol. The flash is a little bright but the left side indents about an inch, maybe 1 1/2 & the other .. I don't know. The nipples are shot apparently. I don't know if anything can really be done for me now. Expert opinion's only please.

Unfortunately, you have a crater deformity defect which we were discussing in your prior thread here:

https://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php?topic=21693.msg146886#msg146886

You are not the first, and sadly most likely not the last that has concerns about contour after surgery. That is why I answered you before having surgery about why it is so important to understand what any surgeon's skills are like.

My Standard After Surgery Pictures were designed to demonstrate the degree such deformities. The flexing views from front, both obliques, and sides, the arms up overhead, and the gynecomastia videos can reveal the extent of the defect. They are one method to help others better understand the degree of the contour issue. Lighting can be important, follow the instructions on the page to best show what is going on.

I have shocking pains sporadically, burning sensations (I assume that's the nerves...they are everywhere. When I run my finger down the middle it sends a tingling sensation to both sides.) Umm..I don't really know what to say. I'd like an expert's opinion

Injured nerves can result in numbness and as nerves regenerate, hypersensitivity, pain, and burning. Revision surgery may not help, unless the nerve is stuck in scar tissue. Being patient, time might see this yet improve.

I strongly disagree with:

He told me all Gynecomastia surgeries look like this and everything is healing great...

That may be true for that doctor, but the many cases I have posted on my site are only a small percentage of what I have achieved with this sculpture. To date with my career nearing its end with retirement, I have never created such a chest. There may be revision options which we are glad to help explore during a consultation or our Preliminary Remote discussion. Options will depend on the original problem, what was done, skill of the surgeon, after surgery care, compression therapy, and many other factors. If you are considering a revision surgery, surgeon selection becomes even more critical. While prevention is the best way to avoid such issues with primary surgery, repair of these defects is even more demanding. Look for how any one individual has managed these Crater Defects. Look for the same criteria discussed before. Seeing real results of what a doctor can offer is much better than reading words or listening to assurances. Although no surgeon can offer a guarantee, we are required to put up on or sites or show patients in our offices examples that are typical of our work. That has been my guiding principle over my career, document, demonstrate, and educate. If my patients tell me that their experiences were similar or better than what they found on my site, then I know I have succeeded.

Sorry, to hear about your results of what you have shown us so far. Did you look for examples of your doctor's methods before surgery? Is what you have now typical of what you saw?

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, M.D.

[Dr. Elliot Jacobs]

Certainly not an acceptable result and I would absolutely not expect any spontaneous improvement from now on.

You really need to go to an expert on gyne surgery for another opinion. There are a number of possibilities for improvement -- but nothing can be stated without benefit of an actual hands-on examination.

Dr Jacobs

[DrBermant]

I don't know if anything can really be done for me now. Expert opinion's only please.

With most of my practice coming from quite a distance, I needed a system to be able to offer surgery and minimize travel. Since different operations need different planning, estimated operating times, and costs, I evolved our Preliminary Remote Discussion. The various Standard Gynecomastia Photograph series was my response. When a problem (or for that matter a surgical solution) is evaluated with more than a few simple photos, I have been able to help my patients with a detailed discussion or risks, benefits, and alternate methods of care, a surgical plan, price, stay estimate before they came to Virginia.

We are usually able to set up a tentative surgery based on these details. Keeping with my theme of documentation, I write down this tentative plan. Each patient is required to have the in office examination to verify my observations of this more complete set of information before I agree that surgery is the right option. This is part of my discussion and education process.  During the actual in office exam, I then write a second surgical plan. I recently did a comparison of those tentative plans to the actual plans and found the phone discussions were right on over 97% of the time. Surgical plans vary anyway adopting to what is found during surgery, but I prefer an educated patient, a better estimate of how long the surgery will take, and fairer price for the work done for these cases.

Some problems are targeted as not suitable for such a discussion. One example of this happening is when a patient tells me that the pictures do not show the problem. If you think about it, it makes sense not to base a discussion on pictures that do not show the problem. At no additional charge from us, patients can continue this discussion in the office. The difference is that the tentative surgery is not in place. They are evaluated and then can schedule surgery for the next available surgery slot. One example I vividly remember is the Canadian Bursa Crater Deformity. He was right on target. The pictures do not tell the entire story. The system worked fine and his surgery was organized the same week as his visit (some must return to Virginia depending on available times). Another example would be if I do not think there are nearby resources such as for an extended crater defect. Then I need that hands on exam in order to book the operation.

Yet other patients decide during the telephone discussion, they would rather continue the discussion in the office without the tentative surgery booked. That is fine by us. That is how our process is designed to minimize stress on the patient, yet maximize convenience when travel is a factor.

What happens to the less than 3% of patients that did not match my estimate of the problem and needed something different. Then surgery can be rescheduled for a different date so patients can take their time to consider the new information and not feel pressured into something they may or may not want.

Now I have done quite a few crater revisions and many tentative surgeries based on this methodology. The examples on my site are only a sampling of what has been managed in this fashion. The methodology of documentation, evaluation, documentation, evaluation has been what has permitted me to evolve what I offer over the years. That thoroughness of the process certainly is not simple. But simple sets of images just do not tell the entire story, neither for surgical planning nor just how good a result actually is achieved with an operation.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, M.D.

[a019283ba]

Reading over the replies and discussing option's on where to go from here with family. Will make a significant reply more than likely some time today. Thanks a lot for the input.

Also.....I know Doctor's don't like to really discuss this..But, it really looks like he just went in and slice & diced me. There was no maneuvers done to my eye's to even avoid the crater deformency......Is this malpractice? I asked my Family doctor and he said "no" -- But, I know a lot of Doctor's stick together and my Family Doctor is the one who recommended me to this tool to begin with. I really don't have money to get this even LOOKED at. My medicaid ended the day I turned 18 (this May).

I need to know if there's any Legal avenues I can pursue in hope's of not only getting this fixed, but avoid having this doctor take more surgical cases that he is obviously unqualified for.

[sabercut]

> I went to the doctor for 2 Post-Op appointment's before almost getting into a physical fight after a verbal one and I'm just torn. He told me all Gynecomastia surgeries look like this and everything is healing great...lol.

Sorry not an expert but I think I have a good advice -

Try gouging one his eyes out and see if that helps him see right

[sabercut]

Who is this butcher? Atleast future patients will avoid him ...

[Rocky76]

Ironically that is what my Dr. told me. Post operative he claimed that all surgeries for gynecamastia have indentation when you move your arms to anything but the side position. He even went as far as to claim that he tells his patients this. Well I can tell you he didn't tell me and I am sure he doesn't tell his patients this as they nor I would have ever gotten the surgery with him. I wonder if we had the same Dr.

The only thing being is that my Dr. was suppose be one of the best and specialized. It is so unethical how these Dr's. continually get to do damage because everyone professional and otherwise, are worried about law suits etc.

There really needs to be a change in how these Dr's are protected. I don't see how one is liable for simply posting pictures of a Dr's work and simply stating "you be the judge".

The irony is the bad Dr's are protected and that's just wrong on many levels. Until it happens to you, you may really never understand that frustration. I would have never went to my Dr. if people where allowed to share this information. Instead I got caught up in all the fake stuff that was printed about positive results and all the truthful stuff that was unflattering gets killed and suppressed. It has come to the point that I beginning to have little respect for the profession.

[a019283ba]

Ironically that is what my Dr. told me. He claimed that all surgeries for gynecamastia have indentation when you move your arms to anything but the side position. He even went as far as to claim that he tells his patients this. Well I can tell you he didn't tell me and I am sure he doesn't tell his patients this as they nor I would have ever gotten the surgery with him. I wonder if we had the same Dr.

The only thing being is that my Dr. was suppose be one of the best and specialized. It is so unethical how these Dr's. continually get to do damage because everyone professional and otherwise, are worried about law suits etc.

There really needs to be a change in how these Dr's are protected. I don't see how one is liable for simply posting pictures of a Dr's work and simply stating "you be the judge".

The irony is the bad Dr's are protected and that's just wrong on many levels. Until it happens to you, you may really never understand that frustration. I would have never went to my Dr. if people where allowed to share this information. Instead I got caught up in all the fake stuff that was printed about positive results and all the truthful stuff that was unflattering gets killed and suppressed. It has come to the point that I beginning to have little respect for the profession.

Yeah. My respect for the profession has dropped immensely too. I will not be releasing the name of this doctor, but I advise you to seek somewhere bigger if you're thinking about getting your surgery done in the Northern Indiana area.

[Rocky76]

I would release his name if I could but I am not allowed to as per the website rules.

[sabercut]

I would release his name if I could but I am not allowed to as per the website rules.

Where r these rules posted. I think its time to change them.

As long as you are vocalizing your real experience, that should be allowed. If you are bringing bad repute to a doctor with bad intention, that shouldnt be allowed.

well said about losing respect - I dont have any respect for this profession, you should really avoid plastic surgeons (including pseudo ones) and lawyers if possible. I honestly think even plumbers get way more consistent results (and most often beat my expectations).

[Dr. Elliot Jacobs]

One bad apple doesn't mean the whole crop is bad.  There are just too many excellent, decent, honest and hard-working doctors around for me to respond any further to your comments.  

I dont have any respect for this profession, you should really avoid plastic surgeons (including pseudo ones) and lawyers if possible. I honestly think even plumbers get way more consistent results (and most often beat my expectations).

I would suggest you go to a plumber for your gyne surgery -- I guess in your opinion he would do a better job!!

But I, too, would avoid lawyers!

Dr Jacobs

[a019283ba]

One bad apple doesn't mean the whole crop is bad.  There are just too many decent, honest and hard-working doctors around for me to respond any further to your comments.  

I would suggest you go to a plumber for your gyne surgery -- I guess in your opinion he would do a better job!!

But I, too, would avoid lawyers!

Dr Jacobs

lol

Edit: Glad you had to edit your post to reassure us that you're surrounded by Saints. I'm happy for you. And I'll be sure to avoid a Malpractice lawyer at all cost as I fail to get a full night of sleep from waking up to shocking pains with no insurance to see a doctor.