My thoughts about this web site.

[Curiousone89]

Hello all,

Well, I intend to keep it short for your own personal interest, criticism is welcome.

When I first joined this site, I felt just a tad better about myself because I knew I wasn't the only one with gyne. But after reading some of the posts on this website it got me a tad concerned.

For one, I do have gyne, I also had it removed just a couple of days ago. It was a lipo only surgery and the results were fantastic. This site provides a LOT of information on gyne, good doctors, bad doctors, techniques, and so on. But what I don't understand is this:

95% (I just made that number up :/) of this forum board are perfectionists.

I don't know if this is purely psychological or not, but even the people who had their surgery start to worry if they did it right or not. I don't get this, yes I understand that in some cases revision surgery is needed, and I also understand that I, myself, might need revision surgery (too early to tell, I'm only 3 days post op.)

However the main point here is simple, people are coming on here judging other people's chests to be SUPREMELY flat chested. This I do not get.

I was looking at some of the pictures of some post op operations and people were complaining that their chest looked abnormal when it looked perfectly fine. I know it isn't a bad thing to aim for such a good posture, physical structure, and gain confidence, but just because your chest isn't perfect doesn't mean you should dwell on it, there are other people on this site that can't even afford surgery, there also other people on this site who started to live with the fact they have gyne. I respect those people because even though they are going through hard times, they still have the chance to live through what they want to.

So please, no offense to anyone on here, but this is my final thoughts of this website:

It provides great info, a great community of the people with the same problem, and I truly respect some of the people's efforts on here. However, a lot of the people here are pessimistic of what they look like, even after surgery. I think some of the users of this forum are too judgmental in a sense that they want to see a chest based on their needs and not of the one who actually stated his problem. This would create a lot more social anxiety to people, dwelling on the little things in life.

Please let me know what you think of this, I'm interested in your responses.

[Grandpa Bambu]

Dude....  I agree 100% with you.

Those who are considering this procedure, must keep in mind that Gynecomastic Reduction Surgery (GRS) is just a fix, not a cure... Also, they must keep in mind that they need to have Realistic Expectations of surgery results. They will not look like Arnold, in his prime...  

Plastic Surgeons, after all, are no more than mere mortals. They are not wizards that can make G magically disappear. PS's can only do so much...

In addition, the post-opper must realize that his chest will get worse before it gets better. When swelling sets in, the chest can look like the G has returned. We need to wait 3-6 months, and possibly up to a full year, to see final results.

In closing, my advice to anyone contemplating G surgery....  Don't aim for a 'flat chest', aim for a G-free chest. And.... to have Realistic Expectations!!!


GB...

[Curiousone89]

That's exactly my point GB, thank you for backing me up on this.

It just saddens me because people actually think that they'll be immediately flat chested after the surgery. Then when they swell they're not satisfied. Clearly, they don't even know how the human body works so why even take the chances of going through a surgery in the first place?

And for the record, no offence to the doctors on here, but just because you state your opinions along with your own info doesn't mean you have the right to be correct either. Doctors have different opinions. Just because you have found a way to promote your knowledge on the internet doesn't make you better than the others. (Just saying)

So friends, please, allow me to say one thing to you.

If you have surgery, sit down on a couch and eat for the next 5 years and complain that your nips are puffy again because the doctor didn't do the right actions, it wasn't his fault, it's yours for not taking care of your own body.

If you're planning on having surgery whilst not even looking after your own body, what's the point of even considering it? Try and be at least physically active before you even consider surgery.

Stop being so shy on your gyne. You're only human. Tell me one time where you all went to this beach party, and every single guy on that beach took their shirts off and had, what GB so well put, "A chest like Arnold's in his prime."

You come on here to look for ADVICE AND OPINION, not for information.

That is all, thanks.

[Dr. Elliot Jacobs]

This is a long overdue discussion -- and I am glad it has been brought up.

Yes, many people expect an immediate, perfect and symmetric chest -- as soon as the bandages are removed. And yet they fail to have REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS. 

First and foremost, please understand that every surgeon wants to do his very best with every operation.  No surgeon ever wants to walk away from the operating table knowing that he hasn't tried his very best and obtained the best possible result for a patient.

But many patients do not realize that there are three individuals involved in every operation:  the patient, the surgeon and Mother Nature.  Sometimes, despite a supreme effort by a surgeon and despite total compliance with the doctor's recommendations by the patient, the results are not "perfect."  Why?  Mother Nature intervenes.

That is why I tell my patients that once in a while, I so hit a 100.  Most of the time I hit in the 90's -- and I emphasize to my patients that they should be realistic and accept that -- hitting in the 90's is pretty damn good.  Some patients don't listen and want to push for a "revision" because their result was a 95 and not 100.  And I caution them that sometimes, when you reach for the ultimate star, you fall flat on your face and can look worse.  And sometimes, when I encounter a patient who will accept nothing less than a perfect result, I will not operate on him.

Let me give you an example of what a surgeon faces.  He does a gyne procedure and walks away content that he has achieved an absolutely fabulous 100% result.  And then Mother Nature gets involved in the healing processes and the result is a 95.  This is similar to handing in a math exam in high school.  You double checked every answer and it is perfect -- you should get 100 on the exam.  Now something entirely unexpected and uncontrollable enters the picture -- your teacher, who is grading your exam, is having a bad hair day.  And she inexplicably deducts 5 points for some outlandish reason and you end up with a 95.  Did you do anything wrong? -- and yet you ended up with a 95!  On the other hand, 95 isn't a bad grade either.  (I think most guys would be pleased to graduate high school with a 95 average!).

Bottom line is that when considering surgery, there is no guarantee of absolute perfection as a result.  One must have realistic expections and be willing to accept the fact that there is rarely perfection in this world -- or in surgical results.  Even Lexus is still relentlessly pursuing (but has not yet attained) perfection.

Would welcome further discussion from everyone on this site.

Dr Jacobs

[Curiousone89]

This is a long overdue discussion -- and I am glad it has been brought up.

Yes, many people expect an immediate, perfect and symmetric chest -- as soon as the bandages are removed. And yet they fail to have REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS. 

First and foremost, please understand that every surgeon wants to do his very best with every operation.  No surgeon ever wants to walk away from the operating table knowing that he hasn't tried his very best and obtained the best possible result for a patient.

But many patients do not realize that there are three individuals involved in every operation:  the patient, the surgeon and Mother Nature.  Sometimes, despite a supreme effort by a surgeon and despite total compliance with the doctor's recommendations by the patient, the results are not "perfect."  Why?  Mother Nature intervenes.

That is why I tell my patients that once in a while, I so hit a 100.  Most of the time I hit in the 90's -- and I emphasize to my patients that they should be realistic and accept that -- hitting in the 90's is pretty damn good.  Some patients don't listen and want to push for a "revision" because their result was a 95 and not 100.  And I caution them that sometimes, when you reach for the ultimate star, you fall flat on your face and can look worse.  And sometimes, when I encounter a patient who will accept nothing less than a perfect result, I will not operate on him.

Let me give you an example of what a surgeon faces.  He does a gyne procedure and walks away content that he has achieved an absolutely fabulous 100% result.  And then Mother Nature gets involved in the healing processes and the result is a 95.  This is similar to handing in a math exam in high school.  You double checked every answer and it is perfect -- you should get 100 on the exam.  Now something entirely unexpected and uncontrollable enters the picture -- your teacher, who is grading your exam, is having a bad hair day.  And she inexplicably deducts 5 points for some outlandish reason and you end up with a 95.  Did you do anything wrong? -- and yet you ended up with a 95!  On the other hand, 95 isn't a bad grade either.  (I think most guys would be pleased to graduate high school with a 95 average!).

Bottom line is that when considering surgery, there is no guarantee of absolute perfection as a result.  One must have realistic expections and be willing to accept the fact that there is rarely perfection in this world -- or in surgical results.  Even Lexus is still relentlessly pursuing (but has not yet attained) perfection.

Would welcome further discussion from everyone on this site.

Dr Jacobs

Doctor, thank you so much for agreeing with me.

Ever since I had the surgery, I went back to this site (yes, back, I was a sufferer of gyne for a while and I just browsed around the forums a bit) to talk about my experiance. But after looking at some of the things people said on this discussion board, it truly did scare me.

What scares me most is some of the men on this site are over 30, I would expect the "NO I WANT TO BE PERFECT" rant from a 16 year old, but this is just re-fucking-diculous. You're grown men, and don't bring up the fact that "You don't know what I went through" blah blah, we ALL know what you went through, if we didn't we wouldn't be here talking about this site.

Let me tell you a short experiance I once had.

I was looking around the site after knowing that someone stated the lipo + excision was MANDITORY. Clearly the individual has not been doing research at all. I only had lipo and I think the results were fantastic, my chest isn't flat, there's a bit of swelling there, but I decreases by a lot. (Literally, a lot.) And even though I had the surgery, spent my parents money to have it, I was very paranoid that my PS didn't do it correctly based on some people's expectations.

There's a reason we don't have the same body structure, eyes, nose, hair or skin color in this world. This isn't even about religion anymore, you were brought in here to be different from everyone else.

People of this site have no right to comment on a doctor's performance unless it was sickening. Have you guys read some of the stories of some unqualified PSs on this site? One man had his nipples droop down to his rib cage and you're complaining that your PS hasn't removed enough gland? Sheesh.

Please, stop acting so foolish. As the doctor above has clearly stated: 95% is very good.

And this really is the quote of this thread.

READ WHAT HE SAID AND READ IT CAREFULLY.

"And sometimes, when I encounter a patient who will accept nothing less than a perfect result, I will not operate on him."

i hereby invite everyone to discuss your thoughts into this site and stop scaring people. This site was meant to help not promote paranoia.

[dondante]

A well needed discussion, indeed. I'm 8 months out from my surgery and I still see that mother nature is still working away slowly as my body recovers. As safe, and as sophisticated as gyne surgery has become - and there are some of the best practitioners out there actively involved in this site - it is STILL a trauma to the body. Pieces of your insides are being cut, suck, scratched and pulled out of you. We don't see the trauma because it's internal, but it's there. Post surgical swelling and scarring is your body's way of telling you it's there. It takes TIME to recover.

[Dr. Elliot Jacobs]

Dondante

Very well put -- this is a difficult thing for many patients to accept, but much of the healing after surgery is beyond the control of the surgeon or the patient!  It just takes lots of time.

Dr Jacobs

[user87]

I think that many guys here need a 100 to really get this thing out of their minds.
It is because of all those years being embarrased and missing "real" life. Even when only 2-3% of the gynecomastia remain, they still have this old feeling of having "bad" gynecomastia. It's some kind of a pattern. The only way to break this pattern is to achieve the 100! When you don't see anything that would hint towards slight gynecomastia, many more would be happy. But I understand that it's not easy to get this 100. You can easily overdo it and get a 110 and then you would have indentations.
Another problem is that many docs wil see a result as a 95 but the patient will see it only as a 50. what can you do then? it's really a problem. many guys expect a COMPLETELY flat chest with no sign that they had gynecomastia and I think that most surgeons don't make clear enough beforehand that it's not easy to get this perfect contour.
i am one of those who want 100%. my ps is telling me that i have really good results, he says "99%". but I dont' see my results as 99%. i have still slightly puffy nipples, so how in the hell could he tell that this are 99%. in my opinion 20%  of my gynecomastia are still remaining.
I still have the same feelings connected with gynecomastia and I am sure that i will only get rid of them if I get rid of my "gynecomastia" 100%!
Furthermore, I am sure that many patients don't tell their docs that they are not fully happy with the results!
I am sure that all the surgeons want to do the best job. but I don't think that all of them have enough empathy.

[Curiousone89]

I think that many guys here need a 100 to really get this thing out of their minds.
It is because of all those years being embarrased and missing "real" life. Even when only 2-3% of the gynecomastia remain, they still have this old feeling of having "bad" gynecomastia. It's some kind of a pattern. The only way to break this pattern is to achieve the 100! When you don't see anything that would hint towards slight gynecomastia, many more would be happy. But I understand that it's not easy to get this 100. You can easily overdo it and get a 110 and then you would have indentations.
Another problem is that many docs wil see a result as a 95 but the patient will see it only as a 50. what can you do then? it's really a problem. many guys expect a COMPLETELY flat chest with no sign that they had gynecomastia and I think that most surgeons don't make clear enough beforehand that it's not easy to get this perfect contour.
i am one of those who want 100%. my ps is telling me that i have really good results, he says "99%". but I dont' see my results as 99%. i have still slightly puffy nipples, so how in the hell could he tell that this are 99%. in my opinion 20%  of my gynecomastia are still remaining.
I still have the same feelings connected with gynecomastia and I am sure that i will only get rid of them if I get rid of my "gynecomastia" 100%!
Furthermore, I am sure that many patients don't tell their docs that they are not fully happy with the results!
I am sure that all the surgeons want to do the best job. but I don't think that all of them have enough empathy.

As Dr. Jacobs so well put it, scoring 100 is a pretty tough task, and it's not the fact they MISSED OUT on those activities, it's the fact that they want to relive those scenarios with the best image in their mind. Girls, manly friends, and walking around topless like it's some Beach Party where the men in the movie 300 and Megan Fox clones went to.

This is why I tell the people I know, I HAD SURGERY TO REMOVE MY MOOBS. I don't care what they have to say, so that when they see me without a shirt again, they'll know there's a huge difference.

And about your last line, dude, seriously? Not enough empathy?

It takes a PS like 10 years to even get a degree, and you're telling me it's not enough empathy? @_@

[DrBermant]

Hello all,

Well, I intend to keep it short for your own personal interest, criticism is welcome.

When I first joined this site, I felt just a tad better about myself because I knew I wasn't the only one with gyne. But after reading some of the posts on this website it got me a tad concerned.

For one, I do have gyne, I also had it removed just a couple of days ago. It was a lipo only surgery and the results were fantastic. This site provides a LOT of information on gyne, good doctors, bad doctors, techniques, and so on. But what I don't understand is this:

95% (I just made that number up :/) of this forum board are perfectionists.

I don't know if this is purely psychological or not, but even the people who had their surgery start to worry if they did it right or not. I don't get this, yes I understand that in some cases revision surgery is needed, and I also understand that I, myself, might need revision surgery (too early to tell, I'm only 3 days post op.)

However the main point here is simple, people are coming on here judging other people's chests to be SUPREMELY flat chested. This I do not get.

I was looking at some of the pictures of some post op operations and people were complaining that their chest looked abnormal when it looked perfectly fine. I know it isn't a bad thing to aim for such a good posture, physical structure, and gain confidence, but just because your chest isn't perfect doesn't mean you should dwell on it, there are other people on this site that can't even afford surgery, there also other people on this site who started to live with the fact they have gyne. I respect those people because even though they are going through hard times, they still have the chance to live through what they want to.

So please, no offense to anyone on here, but this is my final thoughts of this website:

It provides great info, a great community of the people with the same problem, and I truly respect some of the people's efforts on here. However, a lot of the people here are pessimistic of what they look like, even after surgery. I think some of the users of this forum are too judgmental in a sense that they want to see a chest based on their needs and not of the one who actually stated his problem. This would create a lot more social anxiety to people, dwelling on the little things in life.

Please let me know what you think of this, I'm interested in your responses.

I agree, realistic expectations are the key to success and happiness after surgery.  This has been a topic discussed here many times before over many years and is appropriate to bring up again to remind visitors the limitations of real surgery.  Healing of the emotional component of gynecomastia is as important as healing the surgical sculpture.  A testament to how effective a surgeon deals with these issues is if their patients have surgery and then move on with their lives.