150 lb pound guy here looking to bulk up

[irish lad]

ok i think you picked me up wrong here..training twice a day a lot of people do this you are not on TONS OF GEAR as you put it..  its pretty basic.. sure its going to be tough starting off but gradually your body will adjust its like any routine ie. you'l get fitter and stronger the human body can adjust to far more interesting things than training twice a day! and you'l more than likely be increasing your calories which means you'l have more energy and calories to burn you dont need gear i dont think unknown man wants to be a bodybuilder or anything like that!.. and its a really good idea  if you are serious about bulking up or getting into shape! hence the word idea! you can bulk either by putting on muscle mass or fat! what im trying to say is to get the full benificial effects of creatine you need to train hard very hard! i know people who take creatine and go to the gym twice a week and sit around on their ass for the rest of the week now what effect do you think that will have? what is the main function of creatine? il answer that one it is too gain weight and build muscle.. what are the two types of weight you can gain? muscle mass and fat.. look your entitled to your opininon as it is even debated throughout the health and fitness industry.. im baiscally saying what iv been taught and what im studying.. and as far as most fitness instructors not knowing what their talkin about.. you get your good one's and your bad ones..but isnt that the same in every industry?? and p.s i dont mean the same training routine twice in a row! cheers

[slyblackdragon]

"Creatine Can Make You Fat:

...Creatine contains nothing capable of making someone fat. Where I believe this idea comes from is creatine's ability to make a person retain water. This can give a person the appearance of gaining fat, as muscle definition could be lost as the water weight covers it. This water retention will go away as soon as the person stops using creatine. This is not a "side effect" of creatine, it is actually a useful function of it. Muscles grow best when indulged in water, so water-retention is a good step in the body-building process.

Reasons for fat misconceptions are due to under-education on the part of the general public."
From an article by Dean Goudie found here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dean9.htm


I am not meaning to call anyone out so to speak, but I think the worst possible thing for a new trainer is being misinformed by those they trust. A beginner needs only a few things to build muscle. A good weightlifting routine based around heavy compounds (squat,bench,deadlift,overhead press,pullups, etc), a diet of wholesome healthy food, and rest. If you are training heavy and hard, which is required for protein synthesis, you will NOT be able to train with such high intensity twice daily, same lifts or not. Supplements are just that, to supplement. If you are already eating well and training hard, then supplementation should be something you look into, but ONLY if you are doing everything else correctly. Read a few of these articles and educate yourself:

Creatine http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-creatine.aspx

Basic Mass Gain Nutrition http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-mass-gaining.aspx

a few more here http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/articles.aspx

I understand everyone is trying to help, and that is a good thing. People "helped" me a while back when I first started lifting. Guess what? I spent tons of money on miracle supplements that didn't help and got fat because everyone said "Eat big, get big". The only thing that got big was my gut which is finally starting to go away. Please do yourself a favor and educate yourself from reputable sources and don't believe everything posted on the internet, including this post. Also, for learning all the basic lifts buy "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe.

[9Wolf]

"Creatine Can Make You Fat:

...Creatine contains nothing capable of making someone fat. Where I believe this idea comes from is creatine's ability to make a person retain water. This can give a person the appearance of gaining fat, as muscle definition could be lost as the water weight covers it. This water retention will go away as soon as the person stops using creatine. This is not a "side effect" of creatine, it is actually a useful function of it. Muscles grow best when indulged in water, so water-retention is a good step in the body-building process.

Reasons for fat misconceptions are due to under-education on the part of the general public."
From an article by Dean Goudie found here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dean9.htm


I am not meaning to call anyone out so to speak, but I think the worst possible thing for a new trainer is being misinformed by those they trust. A beginner needs only a few things to build muscle. A good weightlifting routine based around heavy compounds (squat,bench,deadlift,overhead press,pullups, etc), a diet of wholesome healthy food, and rest. If you are training heavy and hard, which is required for protein synthesis, you will NOT be able to train with such high intensity twice daily, same lifts or not. Supplements are just that, to supplement. If you are already eating well and training hard, then supplementation should be something you look into, but ONLY if you are doing everything else correctly. Read a few of these articles and educate yourself:

Creatine http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-creatine.aspx

Basic Mass Gain Nutrition http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-mass-gaining.aspx

a few more here http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/articles.aspx

I understand everyone is trying to help, and that is a good thing. People "helped" me a while back when I first started lifting. Guess what? I spent tons of money on miracle supplements that didn't help and got fat because everyone said "Eat big, get big". The only thing that got big was my gut which is finally starting to go away. Please do yourself a favor and educate yourself from reputable sources and don't believe everything posted on the internet, including this post. Also, for learning all the basic lifts buy "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe.

That's great info, slyblackdragon. I'm only trying to keep this thread as informative as possible, before flames start gettin' tossed around! 

As I said, I agree with you on the Creatine issue and I also alluded to the water-retention. Those links are perfect for the thread though and ups to you for clarifying it all for the others.

I've also been reading on bodybuilding science and kiniesiology for many years, and the whole issue of "rest" between workouts, between sets, (sh*t, even between reps) has been debated back and forth for a long time and the only definitive thing that can be said is that it differs individually. Some people's bodies react better with more rest, others with less... some bodies with more carbs, others with less. The whole ectomorph vs endomorph, yada, yada, etc... we can go on and on and on... 

[slyblackdragon]

I agree on with you that everyone is different, but other than someone being assisted or a genetic freak (in a good way) I don't see how one could train with the utmost intensity twice daily. Right now my current routine is as follows:

Mon/Wed/Sat alternating between A and B with the goal of adding 5 lbs to each lift per workout until linear progression fails.

A)
Squat 3x5
Bench- 3x5
Weighted Pullups/Chinups -3x5

B)
Squat- 3x5
Overhead Press- 3x5
Deadlift- 1x5 or Powerclean- 3x5

I can't see how I could possibly train with that kind of intensity more than 3x a week, let alone twice daily!  Though like we already said the best thing he can do is educate himself and do what is best for him.

[9Wolf]

I agree on with you that everyone is different, but other than someone being assisted or a genetic freak (in a good way) I don't see how one could train with the utmost intensity twice daily. Right now my current routine is as follows:

Mon/Wed/Sat alternating between A and B with the goal of adding 5 lbs to each lift per workout until linear progression fails.

A)
Squat 3x5
Bench- 3x5
Weighted Pullups/Chinups -3x5

B)
Squat- 3x5
Overhead Press- 3x5
Deadlift- 1x5 or Powerclean- 3x5

I can't see how I could possibly train with that kind of intensity more than 3x a week, let alone twice daily!  Though like we already said the best thing he can do is educate himself and do what is best for him.

Props for the squats. Right there, that is legit. See, this is what the rest of the thread needs to pay attention to. You're right that those are super high intensity movements, but the trick is actually and literally getting 110% of your energy into each one... which is much harder than it seems. And for someone just starting out, especially with a smaller frame, they would actually benefit from splitting those up into two or even three sessions. For example:

A)
Morning: Squat 3x5
Afternoon: Bench- 3x5
Evening:  Weighted Pullups/Chinups -3x5

B)
Morning: Squat- 3x5, Deadlift- 1x5 or Powerclean- 3x5
Evening: Overhead Press- 3x5

In the A group, since each is relatively independent of each other, spreading them out like that would allow the introductory body to adjust energy levels to recooperate more effectively to HANDLE that amount of intensity for each session. After they've practically puked their guts out from the squats, most likely the beginning body will NOT be able to give maximum effort for the critical bench press immediately after, and furthermore for the pullups. This way, the body can have adequate rest to give it literally 110% for EACH movement.

In the B group, since squats, dead and clean are related they obviously should NOT split them up into different sessions because then they would be in the wrong stage of recovery to tear them up again in the same day (since they're doing low-reps/high intensity... if it was opposite, high reps/low intensity, it wouldn't be as critical.) Further, since that morning session is pretty powerful and combined, the body would benefit from the extra energy gain from not having an afternoon workout and finishing up hard with the overhead press in the evening.

That's what I've learned would be the most efficient way to utilize the body's energy and recooperative powers. It's a natural way to combat "over-training" and also teaches the body to be ready "on edge" and "on peak" no matter the time of day (which is going into another theoretical area of actual combat training) instead of teaching the body that it can relax and deflate at whatever time you don't train. The added plus of this type of regimine is that you keep a pump throughout the day and you're always lookin' prime! Hehe...

However, the problem obviously lies in the fact that hardly no one (besides professional bodybuilders) has the actual time to get in that many sessions a day due to work, family, etc. But if you could do it, that would be optimum. Same philosophy applies to eating. And same applies in microcosm between individual sets.

[irish lad]

ok i understand what your saying but without going to town on links..my point was always that you need to train at least 5 times a week for creatine to do justice because otherwise it is kept as fluid and stored as fat but again i now know im wrong! this is what what i was taught and i too argued your point at first but my college lecture swore by it that this is the way it works and at the end of the day he marks the exams!lol.. but i will defiently be saying this to him as maybe he too was misimformed.. so i guess 2 of us were wrong in a way me about creatine and you about not being able to train twice a day without being on some gear! now as far training twice a day it is proven to be benificial.. i said if you could fit it into your schedule this means have enough time to incorpriate rest as it is just as it is important as your programme.. here are the pro's and con's... pro's = better mass gains and better strenght gains {n.b} training twice a day gives your muscles a real reason to grow and they do exactly that..  con's = you need the time 2. you need to eat more 3. could overtrain if not careful...  now i cant stress how benificial trainig twice a day is if you want to bulk up but you need to keep the pro's and con's in mind.. 80 per cent of building muscle is your diet lots of ppl think its the other way around.. its also about finding your bodys prime hours when you peak the most etc.. i know how hard it is too fit 2 trainigs per day in..with work and rest and a social life but i cleary outlined if he had the time it was just a suggestion which is 100 per cent proven too work

[slyblackdragon]

I really would like to see some studies showing the effectiveness of training twice a day. Not having a dig here, just always looking to learn. I have never done this and never met anyone (who wasn't on performance enhancers) who trained this way. Even if it was effective I would consider it an advanced technique and not something a new trainer should really be interested in. I have made good size gains, though I really train more for strength and performance, from routines like the one listed above. So for me it is this simple:

1) Consume more calories than you burn (from healthy sources)

2) Train with high intensity and a routine based on compound (big) exercises

3) Rest adequately

[carguy]

I know a roid head that trains twice a day. Theres also a girl that trains the same way. Im not sure if shes using steroids but she is huge too. Im fine with training once a day. I think low intensity cardio twice a day is ok though.

[slyblackdragon]

I know a roid head that trains twice a day. Theres also a girl that trains the same way. Im not sure if shes using steroids but she is huge too. Im fine with training once a day. I think low intensity cardio twice a day is ok though.

if "she" and "huge" are in the same sentence, she is either A)fat, or B) on performance enhancers. Women don't make enough testosterone to carry enough muscle mass to be "huge"

[mshoaf]

man i didnt read everyones post but if you think creatine turns into fat, that is total BS!!! not true what so ever!!! do some research before you give this guy false info! as for training twice a day(and your not on juice) you would be waisting your time and you might even loose muscle due to over training. as for protein drinks an iso whey is good but since this dude is trying to "bulk up" he could stand to have some carbs!! which are really important. dont let them be your main source of protein tho

[slyblackdragon]

Anyone else notice that the OP never replied to this thread