Author Topic: Does the gland produce fat?  (Read 5971 times)

Offline Hypo-is-here

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once hormone levels reach a favorable ration, how likely is it that gynecomastia will recline? For instance, as cells die, would gynecomastia gland cells reproduce themselves at a lower rate due to a suppression of the hormones it takes to produce them, or is rehabilitation of a cell dependent on another catalyst? Thanks.


Many factors are involved but basically;

Glandular Gynecomastia that is in the proliferation/developmental phase is far more likely to respond to positive changes in the endocrine system.  After about one and a half to two years gynecomastia becomes more fibrous and usually less responsive.

This means that medical intervention in terms of drug treatments are far more likely to reduce or resolve glandular gynecomastia during the proliferation/developmental phase.  It also means that if a guy is going through puberty and their androgen to estrogen ratio improves there is the chance that the gynecomastia will be reduced or resolved naturally.

Gynecomastia can be reduced or resolve in the above stated manner and this happens as cells atrophy.

Pseudogynecomastia on the other hand is not directly affected by changes in the endocrine system, but it to maybe decreased during puberty if androgens increase in relation to estrogens as higher levels of free testosterone can help the body to burn off excess visceral fat.  For some people gynecomastia is not sufficiently reduced or resolved during puberty and some men with pseudogynecomastia cannot rid themselves of the problem without risking malnutrition (as fat loss cannot be localized).

Unfortunately there is no way of accurately knowing/saying how likely it is for a specific individual’s gynecomastia to resolve if they are going through puberty at least not typically, neither can it accurately be said (typically) who is likely to respond favorably to medical intervention and who isn’t irrespective of the time frame.

What I can say is that moderate exercise can often reduce estradiol as has been seen in breast cancer studies and this of course can only help, whereas alcohol causes temporary increases in estradiol and reductions in testosterone which obviously isn’t great.

So exercise in moderation can give your body a helping hand in this lottery, what it wont do, or at least is unlikely to do is help you if you have an underlying causative condition, are on medication that allows for the development of gynecomastia or have plainly poor genetics that predisposes you to the problem.

I added the very true but not asked for positive note regarding exercise as I feel the answer to the exact question is unfortunately a little downbeat.



 


 




Offline MonarchX

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So...maybe 19 is not a good age to perform the surgery?  Maybe I'm still going through puberty...I know I got hairy REAL early, but like facial changes didn't occur until maybe 1 year ago.  I used to have a baby face and now its way different.

Also, my 4th finger is 3mm higher than my 2nd finger!

Offline plato

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Many factors are involved but basically;

Glandular Gynecomastia that is in the proliferation/developmental phase is far more likely to respond to positive changes in the endocrine system.  After about one and a half to two years gynecomastia becomes more fibrous and usually less responsive.

This means that medical intervention in terms of drug treatments are far more likely to reduce or resolve glandular gynecomastia during the proliferation/developmental phase.  It also means that if a guy is going through puberty and their androgen to estrogen ratio improves there is the chance that the gynecomastia will be reduced or resolved naturally.

Gynecomastia can be reduced or resolve in the above stated manner and this happens as cells atrophy.

Pseudogynecomastia on the other hand is not directly affected by changes in the endocrine system, but it to maybe decreased during puberty if androgens increase in relation to estrogens as higher levels of free testosterone can help the body to burn off excess visceral fat.  For some people gynecomastia is not sufficiently reduced or resolved during puberty and some men with pseudogynecomastia cannot rid themselves of the problem without risking malnutrition (as fat loss cannot be localized).

Unfortunately there is no way of accurately knowing/saying how likely it is for a specific individual’s gynecomastia to resolve if they are going through puberty at least not typically, neither can it accurately be said (typically) who is likely to respond favorably to medical intervention and who isn’t irrespective of the time frame.

What I can say is that moderate exercise can often reduce estradiol as has been seen in breast cancer studies and this of course can only help, whereas alcohol causes temporary increases in estradiol and reductions in testosterone which obviously isn’t great.

So exercise in moderation can give your body a helping hand in this lottery, what it wont do, or at least is unlikely to do is help you if you have an underlying causative condition, are on medication that allows for the development of gynecomastia or have plainly poor genetics that predisposes you to the problem.

I added the very true but not asked for positive note regarding exercise as I feel the answer to the exact question is unfortunately a little downbeat.

So when you say proliferation/developmental phase, do you mean when the gland as a whole is still growing, or are you talking individual cells? I'm not sure exactly how to word my question, but I'll see if I can express it.

proliferation/developmental=while the gland is still growing right, sintead of just lying stagnant? So I assume that the stagnant cells have long lives sine their reproduction isn't fast, would that be correct? And if so, will forced cell atrophy(like hard massage etc on the gland, I've seen it on the Health chennel, for whatecer that's worth) kills some cells, leaving them less inclined to reroduce than they would be in proliferation/developmental?

Offline lopher

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O.K let's put this in lay mans terms  ;)

When the gland is newly developed it's possible for it's growth to be reversed by either natural or chemically assisted means.

But once it's been there for 2 years it's status changes from 'temporary resident' to 'permanent resident'  >:(

Then the only way to say goodbye to it is by serving it with an 'eviction' order from a PS.

However you should be aware, fukkin around with hormonal treatments even within the 2 year mark is rather unreliable and can often make the problem worse rather than better, and can potentially do a whole lot of damage messing around with your endocrine system.

Best advice: Don't interfere with nature unless you have some medical reason too. Let nature take it's course and if it's still there after 2 years, you can't live with it and it's growth has stabilised, get the op,

Comprende?

lopher
« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 08:33:28 PM by lopher »

Offline Hypo-is-here

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O.K let's put this in lay mans terms  ;)

When the gland is newly developed it's possible for it's growth to be reversed by either natural or chemically assisted means.

But once it's been there for 2 years it's status changes from 'temporary resident' to 'permanent resident'  >:(

Then the only way to say goodbye to it is by serving it with an 'eviction' order from a PS.


Yes that is pretty much how it works.

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However you should be aware, fukkin around with hormonal treatments even within the 2 year mark is rather unreliable and can often make the problem worse rather than better, and can potentially do a whole lot of damage messing around with your endocrine system.


It depends greatly on who is doing what.  If you have a competent endocrinologist/andrologist or hormonal specialist who is treating with hormonal medications and taking regular pathology then it will certainly not get worse as a result and in fact there is a good chance of things improving.  If however you are talking about individuals self medicating then of course that is a minefield and not one that any rational person should wish to enter.  

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Best advice: Don't interfere with nature unless you have some medical reason too. Let nature take it's course and if it's still there after 2 years, you can't live with it and it's growth has stabilised, get the op,

Comprende?

lopher


Yes, without a medical doctor treating, don’t interfere with matters.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 04:57:42 AM by Hypo-is-here »

Offline lopher

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Sure I think we pretty much agree on the basics. Just the thing is not all gyne caused by medicine is 'self medicated'. Doctors have certainly prescribed a few medicines in their time that have made gyne worse. I think the whole problem is even the most competetent endocrinologist dosen't know exactly whats going to happen with any medicine that alters hormone levels.

The problem is they just can't know for sure. Hormone levels can be extremely sensitive and in constant change. Hormone levels change by the day, hour and even the minute. All blood work does is give them a snap shot. Unless you had your hormones continually monitored 24/7 then maybe exasberating the gyne through medicines could be avoided, but there are too many factors that the endocrinologist just cannot calculate to a 100% accuracy or even close. Hormones are affected by too many things, physiological and psychological that no-one can calculate for.

Bottom line, if a endocrinologist prescribes a medicine, then sure take it, but just be aware no medicine comes with a guarantee.

lopher

Offline Hypo-is-here

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Sure I think we pretty much agree on the basics. Just the thing is not all gyne caused by medicine is 'self medicated'. Doctors have certainly prescribed a few medicines in their time that have made gyne worse.


Obviously, I never stated otherwise.

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I think the whole problem is even the most competetent endocrinologist dosen't know exactly whats going to happen with any medicine that alters hormone levels.


That is factually incorrect.  Competent endocrinologists know exactly what is going to happen with the use of certain medications, in terms of what hormones they are going to affect and how.  The only question is one of the degree to which the medications work and this is something that differs person to person.  They also know for sure what will not happen or is unlikely to happen with particular medications as a result of controlled studies.  

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Hormone levels can be extremely sensitive and in constant change. Hormone levels change by the day, hour and even the minute.


Yes but this means nothing.  A competent endocrinologist medicates when he or she sees a medical need evidenced by symptomatology, pathology and physical examination.
Multiple pathology, sometimes pooled pathology and even highly specific evocative dynamic testing of the HPTA form part of the diagnosis that comes before any given treatment.  If you were aware of the realities of this area of medicine you would not think the way you do at present.  

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All blood work does is give them a snap shot.


Again this is to completely misunderstand the medicine involved, it is true to a degree, but it is a generalization that implies far too much.  

A competent endocrinologist will take into account the whole medical picture including physical examination, symptomatology and pathology.  Primary testicular failure can often be evidenced via orchidometer measurement of the testis.  Small testicles and symptoms of androgen deficiency coupled with high or low LH would offer a highly specific diagnosis for hypogonadism.  Pre pubertal androgen deficiency of any origin is often evidenced by eunecoid body statue or a failure to go through puberty.  If an individual has overtly high estradiol levels they very rarely change from one test to another as estradiol levels tend to take quite some time to fall if they are going to do that at all.  So this snapshot doesn’t tend to alter very much at all as long as the individual is not going through puberty.  In order to diagnose hypogonadism a minimum of two morning samples of testosterone would be taken along with ancillary hormones and very often LH values can easily point to the problem at hand.  LH is of a pulsatile nature and can be different every time it is tested, however if it is low, inappropriately normal in the setting of low androgen levels or high in the setting of low androgen levels in multiple tests it gives a fairly strong indication of hypogonadism and that is before even considering symptoms. Men with longstanding low GH or testosterone deficiency also often have osteopenia or osteoporosis as evidenced via bone density scans, so again this is something that can aid the competent endocrinologist when considering the possibility of long term hypogonadism.     When an individual has a more complicated case evocative dynamic testing of the HPTA is often used.  A GnRH test can help an endocrinologist ascertain whether the hypothalmic pituitary axis is intact and can also help ascertain whether or not the individual is suffering from pituitary insufficiency.  A high prolactin level or a poor GnRH response would prompt a MRI or CT scan of the pituitary another medical aid that enables the competent endocrinologist make a definitive diagnosis.  Some men may have Insulin Tolerance tests to ascertain cortisol and Growth Hormone levels.  These tests can conclusively follow up on pathology for definitive diagnosis for differing conditions or at least aid in the endocrinologist in ruling out or following up with further dynamic testing in order to again arrive at a definitive diagnosis.  When it comes to TSH (Thyroid testing).  TSH is a highly sensitive test that reveals over ninety percent of those suffering from thyroid problems.  In those suspected of thyroid problems not evidenced by low or high TSH, further testing of freeT4, freeT3, thyroid antibodies, reverse T3 etc usually provides definitive diagnosis of deficiency or excess.   I could go on but wont

Pathology alone or poorly interpreted pathology is the problem, but pathology in the right setting with appropriate weight and interpretation applied to it alongside other diagnostic aids make pathology an incredibly helpful tool in ascertaining the hormonal make-up and problems of any given individual.


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Unless you had your hormones continually monitored 24/7 then maybe exasberating the gyne through medicines could be avoided, but there are too many factors that the endocrinologist just cannot calculate to a 100% accuracy or even close. Hormones are affected by too many things, physiological and psychological that no-one can calculate for.


It is highly unlikely that anyone would require their hormones to be monitored in the manner you have stated.  In an extreme case where longer dynamic testing was conducted it would not increase gynecomastia.  I think you have read far too much into whatever it is that you have read.  Although stress can temporarily reduce testosterone levels, hormones are working in the body 24/7 and gynecomastia does not respond/increase to such small episodic increases or dips in endocrine function.  Like I say if you knew this area of medicine then you would know that competent endocrinologists can very often know more than enough to allow for medical intervention when it is necessitated.

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Bottom line, if a endocrinologist prescribes a medicine, then sure take it, but just be aware no medicine comes with a guarantee.
lopher


It depends what you mean here, because again this statement is a generalization.

If you are referring to medical/drug intervention in cases of gynecomastia, I agree that there are no guarantees in terms of how successful such intervention will be.  However the efficacy of such treatment can pretty much be assured if prescribed by a competent endocrinologist and any potential side effects well explained.  If you are meaning your statement on a more general level, as in medications for hormone problems then I would argue that you’re far too pessimistic as thyroid, androgen and adrenal problems are very often well treated with medication and the benefits usually far outweighing any drawbacks.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 01:16:19 PM by Hypo-is-here »

Offline supaaman

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Thanks for the comments Hypo.  I appreciate your information.  Your descriptions make sense.  Thanks for taking the time to do that for us.  The explanations take time to wade through and understand, but very enlightening (we could use an interpreter).  I don't know what you do for a day job, but if isn't dedicated to this, it sure is a waste of talent and valuable knowledge!  If you could take all of that knowledge and put it in simple layman's terms, it would be helpful to many here.  A Hypo's "Explanation for Dummies" would be good!  Regardless, you are a great asset here.

A couple of questions:  

Do you think that those with true gynecomastia all have some level of hypogonadism related to high estradiol (or a relative imbalance with testosterone) during puberty?  What kinds of symptoms would you see... you mentioned the gynecoid body shape... what else?

If the hormones have been imbalanced during puberty to the extent that gynecomastia has set in permanently, can the hormones have gone back to being in balance later - it's just that the gyne won't resolve at that point?

Those with gyne could assume that their male children would be genetically prone to a hormonal imbalance.  What steps can be taken, and at what age should they be taken, to lessen or eliminate the chance of long term effects of such an imbalance (ie gyne).
JCF  Success Story - Surgery Aug 23, 2006


 

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