Author Topic: Hi, Devestated College Student here  (Read 6332 times)

Offline Unyielding

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First off, this is my first post.

I discovered this site over a year ago, but I've only recently come to terms with how much I want to correct my problem. Except, I live in Wisconsin, and the procedure is not performed here very often compared to a big city. There is a Dr. Bartell in Madison mentioned here: http://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php/topic,4679.0.html
But it seems that people aren't sure how often he does the procedure. Has anyone been to him?

Besides him, the closest to me is Chicago: http://www.gynecomastia.org/content/surg_listing/surgeons.cgi?filter=USA&filter_state=IL

I've read about Dr. Pensler on this forum before, and I might choose him because of his experience with this procedure.

Though all gyne cases cause psychological damage, my situation causes my physical soreness and daily irritation, as well. Because of my unique situation, insurance must cover this. I'm just a college student, and this condition is devastating to me. Oh, look what I just found:

Quote
Court Orders Insurance Company To Pay For Teenage Boy's Breast-ReductionBY Special to the Sun
April 4, 2007
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/51762

An insurance company must pay $5,000 for the surgery of a young man who suffered from an enlarged-breast disorder, a state appellate court in Manhattan ruled yesterday upholding two lower court decisions. The court rejected Group Health Incorporated's claim that the condition, known as gynecomastia, should not be covered because the procedure was "elective cosmetic surgery or treatment." The ruling noted the teenager's "devastating condition with ‘psychosocial' consequences."The company couldn't be immediately reached for comment.

Exactly how I feel! Sometimes I cry myself to sleep when I think about how much I hate the way I look without my shirt on. It's become a serious emotional problem that I need to solve... SOON.

How do I find out more about covering the procedure with insurance?
Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 09:26:40 PM by Unyielding »

Offline Bolognianips

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If you are going to have it coverd by insurance, good luck first of all.  Second the path of least resistance will be getting your case well documented.  Although the case you mentioned was won, there was a considerable legal battle that certainly would have cost more than the surgury, as it appears that it appealed at least once, so insurnace companies know most patients will not consider that an option.

If you are experianceing physical pain, and can gain documentation to that effect by an approved dr. of your insurance company, that is step one.  Notice the insurance company was arguing that there was no proof of mental anquish (per professional diagnosis), so that would be your step two.  Commonly insurance companies will pay for some phycological services, you may want to look into it, and make sure you have adiquate documentation in that situation as well.

Make sure that you make your poition clear to your physician, and if he has a problem with it, find a new one.  If you are experianceing pain, be carefull and mindfull how you approach it, as insurance companies will certinaly only want to pay the bare minimum and you could end up with a crude masectomy rather than a delicate procedure with the intention of elimintaing any evidance it ever existed.

This is how I would veiw the situation at least, I hope it helps.  Insurance companies seem very dedicated to spend dozens of times the cash to defend thier decision, than to actually pay for the prcedure.

Good Luck! 

I am from Wisconsin as well, and I would be excited to see such a president in our state as well as new york.  Certainly there would be no shortage of individuals to testify as to the terrible effects of this condition.



Offline Bolognianips

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Here is the decision.  Remember this was a NY state case, and it is policy specific.  Best of luck.

Decided on April 3, 2007
Saxe, J.P., Friedman, Marlow, Buckley, Sweeny, JJ.

203
Index 570394/05


[*1]Steven A. Schulman, Plaintiff-Respondent,

v

Group Health Incorporated, Defendant-Appellant.





Ted L. Wilkes, New York, for appellant.
Steven A. Schulman, respondent pro se.


Order of the Appellate Term of the Supreme Court of the State of New York, First Department, entered March 29, 2006, which affirmed a judgment of Civil Court (Small Claims Part), New York County (Barbara Jaffe, J.), entered on or about September 7, 2004, after a nonjury trial, awarding plaintiff the principal sum of $5,000, unanimously affirmed, with costs.

This action against a health insurer to recover medical expenses requires an interpretation of apparently conflicting provisions of a nine-year-old legislative enactment (L 1988, ch 586).

Insurance Law § 4914(b)(4)(A)(iv) provides that the determination of an external appeal agent shall "be binding on the plan and the insured," while clause (A)(v) provides that the external review agent's determination shall "be admissible in any court proceeding." Statutory terms related to the same subject matter must be construed together so as to make a coherent whole (McKinney's Cons Law of NY, Book 1, Statutes § 97), reconciling the apparently conflicting provisions in a manner most consistent with the overall legislative intent (id. § 98; Levine v Bornstein 4 NY2d 241, 244 [1958]).

These two clauses were harmonized in Nenno v Blue Cross & Blue Shield of W. N.Y. (303 AD2d 930, 932 [2003]) and Matter of Vellios v IPRO, 1 Misc 3d 468 [2003]) by construing clause (iv) not as a bar to judicial review but as marking the end of the administrative review process. The legislative history (see Senate Mem in Support and Governor's Mem upon approval, 1998 McKinney's Session Laws of NY, at 1977 and 1480, respectively) expressed concern that coverage disputes were being decided by the courts, a costly process for both consumers and insurers. The primary purpose of this external appeal law was to create a new layer of independent and impartial administrative review, which did not previously exist, and which would provide consumers with a low-cost, expedited review option in addition to the courts (cf. Insurance Law § 4907 [rights and remedies conferred in this article are cumulative and in addition to, not in lieu of, any other rights and remedies available under law]; see Nenno, 303 AD2d at 932). Defendant's argument that the external review determination precludes an insured from seeking redress in the courts is without merit and flies in the face of both the statutory scheme and the legislative intent of these provisions. Defendant's interpretation provides no mechanism for review of either erroneous or arbitrary determinations by external review agents, a result that is not only inconsistent with the purpose of these statutory provisions, [*2]but would be detrimental to both insureds and insurers.

Turning to the merits, plaintiff seeks reimbursement for a bilateral mastectomy performed on his 17-year-old son, who was suffering from a condition known as gynecomastia, or enlarged breasts. The burden is on the insured to show that a policy was in force at the time a claim arose (Moneta Dev. Corp. v Generali Ins. Co. of Trieste & Venice, 212 AD2d 428, 429 [1995]), and on the insurer to show that the claim is excluded from coverage (Continental Cas. Co. v Rapid-Am. Corp., 80 NY2d 640, 652 [1993]). Under the policy in question, medically necessary services are defined, inter alia, as services provided for the direct care or treatment of the condition, disease or injury, not in excess of the care indicated by generally accepted standards of good medical practice, and not furnished primarily for the convenience of the patient, his family or the provider. The policy contains an exclusion for "elective cosmetic surgery or treatment which is primarily intended to improve [the insured's] appearance." An exception to this exclusion exists for "reconstructive surgery because of congenital disease or anomaly of a covered child which has resulted in a functional defect." The term "functional defect" is not defined.

As Appellate Term found, the trial court's determination that plaintiff established a prima facie case with, inter alia, medical evidence provided by the son's pediatrician and plastic surgeon, describing the son's gynecomastia as a "deformity" that caused him to suffer emotional distress and depression, inhibiting his "psychosocial development," was not "clearly erroneous" (Schiffman v Deluxe Caterers of Shelter Rock, 100 AD2d 846, 847 [1984]), and otherwise satisfied the governing substantial justice standard (see Williams v Roper, 269 AD2d 125, 126-127 [2000], lv dismissed 95 NY2d 898 [2000]). Defendant, relying simply on the determination of the external appeal agent that the mastectomy could not be deemed medically necessary absent evidence of "a significant functional problem secondary to the enlarged breasts," failed to sustain its burden of showing that the exclusion for cosmetic surgery applied.

Defendant's argument that plaintiff's claim of emotional distress must fail since it is not supported by a mental health professional is particularly disingenuous. The condition suffered by plaintiff's son was characterized by plaintiff's medical providers as a "deformity" and, particularly in the case of a 17-year-old male, clearly a devastating condition with "psychosocial" consequences. It is absurd to deny coverage on the grounds that plaintiff's son did not provide support from a mental health professional, particularly where the external review decision itself acknowledges that the patient suffers "depression" and "emotional distress" from this condition.

We have considered defendant's other arguments and find them unavailing.

THIS CONSTITUTES THE DECISION AND ORDER
OF THE SUPREME COURT, APPELLATE DIVISION, FIRST DEPARTMENT.

ENTERED: APRIL 3, 2007

CLERK

Offline Unyielding

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Thank you so much, Bolognianips! Your info is invaluable.

Completely agree with this:
Quote
The condition suffered by plaintiff's son was characterized by plaintiff's medical providers as a "deformity" and, particularly in the case of a 17-year-old male, clearly a devastating condition with "psychosocial" consequences.

So it looks like I have to:

A. Gain documentation of physical pain by approved doctor of insurance co
    1. make position clear to physician
    2. make sure there's no problem and that he feels the same way
B. Get proof of mental anguish per professional diagnosis
    get reimbursed for psychological services?


So my first step is to see a physician? What should I say it's for? "glandular problems"? I'm so embarrased that I don't even have the words.
Also, once I have physician documentation, will the doctor recommend me a psychologist or what?

Thank you so much again for your guidance. Thinking about all of this is stirring up a lot of old emotions... i have to breathe deep.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 10:19:36 PM by Unyielding »

Offline Bolognianips

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Hey, I'm glad I could help. 

Yes, your first step is to see a GP of some sort.  Whatever your insurance comany allows or approves of.  Generally the GP will act as a "Gatekeeper" for most insurance plans.  What that means is that in order to see a specialist usually you will need a refferal from this Dr. in order to avoid conflict with your Insruance comapny.  He may also, recommend speaking with somone about the mental condition it presents.

I am not sure how insurance comapnies handle "mental services" so you may need to check with your insruance company about that.

Anyways, I think the best way to save time on this issue would be to go to a shrink, get your hormones tested, and then return to your GP with the results of each, and you will then be able to look for a solution.. ie..  gland removal.  Hopefully at that point, with your emotional evaluatoin, and hormone levels in hand you will be able to make a strong case for some sort of resolution. 

Here is the issue though.  Some insruance companies that I have seen posted on this forum had very sepcific language and definitiaons of covering Gynecomastia (or "Cosmetic procedures).  I think one had age ranges and how bad the condition must be, and all sorts of disqualifiers for the surgury.  I think you needed to be AT or belove your recommended BMI, not smoke or do drugs, drink.. all sorts of crap they can do to save a buck.

Your Dr. on the otherhand can only do so much.  Ideally, in my opinion, and I assume the opinion of most medical professionals, they have an obligation to find a solution to your suffering.  In reality, our current healthcare system will severly tie their hands, and dictate weather or not you recive relief.

It could be a long road, but keep me, and all of us posted, perhaps we can establish the most efficient procedure for gaining insurance coverage.

One more thing, as I relise how discusted I am about the issue of insurance and gynecomastia.

Look into HR 676.  It establishes a national heathcare program, much like Canada.  If it is instituted, the NY case will have far more impact as a legal precident when dealing with a government run heath insurance.

I said before, if I had a million dollars I would pass out operations to everyone I could suffering with this condition.  Perhaps if I had a million dollars I could better spend it Lobbying for coverage of this condition and similar conditions by any U.S. heathcare provider.

Peace out!  Keep us posted, I am really interested in PS's in Wisconsin and Chicago so you might give me a hand and save me a trip to VA if you can find somone of compitance in these areas.



Offline Unyielding

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Responses below.

Quote
Anyways, I think the best way to save time on this issue would be to go to a shrink, get your hormones tested, and then return to your GP with the results of each, and you will then be able to look for a solution.. ie..  gland removal.  Hopefully at that point, with your emotional evaluatoin, and hormone levels in hand you will be able to make a strong case for some sort of resolution.

Will my GP be able to provide a list of "shrinks" that are covered by my insurance? Where do I test my hormones?

Quote
I think one had age ranges and how bad the condition must be, and all sorts of disqualifiers for the surgury.  I think you needed to be AT or belove your recommended BMI, not smoke or do drugs, drink.. all sorts of crap they can do to save a buck.

I'm skinny like my Dad. I'm most likely below my BMI, as well. Nor have I ever smoked or drank or done any kinds of drugs. Looks like not being "popular" paid off.  ;D

Quote
It could be a long road, but keep me, and all of us posted, perhaps we can establish the most efficient procedure for gaining insurance coverage.

If my situation helps others, then this will all be worth it.  :)

Quote
Look into HR 676.

Yeah, but doesn't that have to be passed in Congress?

Quote
Keep us posted, I am really interested in PS's in Wisconsin and Chicago so you might give me a hand and save me a trip to VA if you can find somone of compitance in these areas.

Glad to help. I did hours of research on PSs in Wisconsin and none of them even mention the procedure on their website. They nearly never do this, so that really rules out Wisconsin. However, as I mentioned before, Dr. Pensler looks very promising. Check him out at the Surgeon List. He does this A LOT, 85-100 times a year a lot, so I trust his ability.

Right so, I'll make an appointment with my GP, and I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again.  :)

Offline Unyielding

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Hello again.

I'd just like some clarification. Is there anything else I should mention besides that insurance is going to cover it? What kinds of questions should I ask the GP and what kinds of things should I make clear? I realize that the GP is the gateway for insurance coverage so I'd like advice on dealing with that.

Thanks.

Offline Grandpa Bambu

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Is there anything else I should mention besides that insurance is going to cover it?

So... insurance coverage has been approved for you?

GB
Surgery: February 16, 2005. - Toronto, Ontario Canada.
Surgeon: Dr. John Craig Fielding   M.D.   F.R.C.S. (C) (416.766.8890)
Pre-Op/Post-Op Pics

Offline Unyielding

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Not yet, I was told that seeing a GP is the first step.

Offline shaqazulu

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I had one sided-gyne.  I never even knew about this site...

Mine was VERY PAINFUL.

Even still, insurance WON'T cover it.  That's just one case.  It's so much money, it'd be easier & headache-free to just gather up some money & do it.  OR move to Canada, & they'll do it for free.

Offline Grandpa Bambu

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Not yet, I was told that seeing a GP is the first step.

So how do you know that insurance will cover it then?

GB

Offline Grandpa Bambu

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OR move to Canada, & they'll do it for free.

Who told you that GRS is done 'free' in Canada?

GB

Offline Unyielding

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...the path of least resistance will be getting your case well documented...

If you are experianceing physical pain, and can gain documentation to that effect by an approved dr. of your insurance company, that is step one.  Notice the insurance company was arguing that there was no proof of mental anquish (per professional diagnosis), so that would be your step two.  Commonly insurance companies will pay for some phycological services, you may want to look into it, and make sure you have adiquate documentation in that situation as well.

Make sure that you make your position clear to your physician, and if he has a problem with it, find a new one.  If you are experianceing pain, be carefull and mindfull how you approach it, as insurance companies will certinaly only want to pay the bare minimum and you could end up with a crude masectomy rather than a delicate procedure with the intention of elimintaing any evidance it ever existed.

My questions referred to the above quote. Will a GP refer me to a psychologist? Or an endocrinologist?

Offline Bolognianips

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Hopefully both.  You need to make sure that you are very percise in explaining the type of trauma this condition has caused you.


Offline Unyielding

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Well, today is a big day. My GP appt. is at 1PM, and I'll be sure to be very specific in detailing the physical and psychological anguish this condition has caused me. I'm optimistic that the doctor will be very helpful. I've heard good things about this guy.

Also, thank you so much for your help thus far, Bolognianips and others! Your info is invaluable. I hope my experience will help blaze a trail for others.


 

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