Author Topic: Intersex diagnosis or symptoms  (Read 2465 times)

Offline Justagirl💃

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What is PMDS? An intersex condition that allowed the "male" body to develop a uterus and fallopian tubes. 

https://www.webmd.com/children/persistent-mullerian-duct-syndrome

In my case, also a deformed penis that resembles an enlarged clitoris inset in a crease that has no vagina and the pee hole is not on the appendage but rather underneath it like a female. Prostate and testicles exist. 

Puberty also largely didn't match assigned gender marker at birth by providing me wide hips and breasts. 

1/1500 children will be born under the intersex umbrella with hundreds of variations. Is it really "gynecomastia" when we develop breasts? And since "gynecomastia" simply means "female-breasts" in the Greek root word, then wouldn't every individual including women have the condition of gynecomastia if they have breasts?

Bottom line is that no two individuals will be born exactly the same. We are all unique. Rather than trying to crawl into two well defined gender boxes accepted by society we should all be accepting of ourselves and create our own unique place in society as we are. 

Birdie 💖
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Offline Evolver

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Thank you very much for providing that link, Birdie. I have seen you use the PMDS abbreviation before and it made me a bit curious, but I never bothered to look it up myself. I feel better educated now. 👍

As far as the technical definition of gynecomastia goes, my rudimentary understanding of the word is "Breasts like a woman", but that's just my interpretation.

Offline taxmapper

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This is a subject I have great interest in.  I have posted before on this and there is a good deal of information and historical context involved that would utterly change the approach taken in society if we made it popular.

Intersexuality is not just having girl parts but the mixture makes for interesting combinations of body. 

Female shaped hands and bone placement but in male sizes. 
Pelvis halfway between typical male and female shapes. Muscle mass going both ways. Hormonal issues. Emotional baggage, weird hair behavior, crossed feelings, indecision, unexplained emotional desires, weird cravings, lack of adams apple but able to go to Berry White levels on the voice, or just weird and screechy mono-tonal voice, undesired feeling about “Alpha Males”. And a long list of other things that cause one to go mmmmmmmmm!

Which takes me back to the concept of maintenance rather than “correcting “ these differences.

Offline Justagirl💃

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This is a subject I have great interest in.  I have posted before on this and there is a good deal of information and historical context involved that would utterly change the approach taken in society if we made it popular.

Intersexuality is not just having girl parts but the mixture makes for interesting combinations of body.

Female shaped hands and bone placement but in male sizes.
Pelvis halfway between typical male and female shapes. Muscle mass going both ways. Hormonal issues. Emotional baggage, weird hair behavior, crossed feelings, indecision, unexplained emotional desires, weird cravings, lack of adams apple but able to go to Berry White levels on the voice, or just weird and screechy mono-tonal voice, undesired feeling about “Alpha Males”. And a long list of other things that cause one to go mmmmmmmmm!

Which takes me back to the concept of maintenance rather than “correcting “ these differences.
Yes, abnormal hormonal balances are a symptom as well. It can create quite a bit of confusion during puberty and development. 

Offline 42CSurprise!

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I was curious about something you wrote Birdie about how Judaism treats intersexuality and did a search on its place in history.  I came across this very long article in Wikipedia that I'll share for others who might be curious.

Intersex People in History

Offline Justagirl💃

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I was curious about something you wrote Birdie about how Judaism treats intersexuality and did a search on its place in history.  I came across this very long article in Wikipedia that I'll share for others who might be curious.

Intersex People in History
This is the actual image of the "measuring device" used to determine sex in many borderline cases. 

The appendage is gently pulled and measured across the scale. 

Offline 42CSurprise!

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Amazing how terrifying it is for cultures to accept that whomever is born is worthy of love for being exactly as they are.  The need for clarity and specificity is huge.  Keep everyone in their boxes so the world can relax in its delusion it actually knows what is happening.

I took a walk through the neighborhood two days ago.  I was wearing a brassiere but as always I wore an unbuttoned shirt over a tee shirt that showed my curves.  I saw two people approach me, a woman and someone I took to be a young quite tall trans woman.  The trans woman was very self conscious and not at all attractive.  The woman was older and I wondered if she was a mother walking her child home from the nearby high school.  What must it be like to have a child whose gender identity is confused?  What must it be like to be that teenager trying to find a place in the world.  Of course, I think about the men here who developed breasts as adolescents.  This human journey is never easy.  Sometimes it can be brutal.  Every difference becomes a source of shame simply because the world has such a hard time with differences of any kind.  And wars have been fought over differences from the beginning of history.  It is comforting to find an oasis where differences can be celebrated rather than demeaned.  I wish us all well.

Offline Parity

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42C Your right.  The ignorance and fear of whats unknown to them makes it hard for those living outside the small narrow boxes and lines they have drawn and live within.  I long for the day when hatred, bigotry and the fear of the unknown are gone.  I know it will never happen however I feel we have made progress on so many levels.  

Offline 42CSurprise!

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I guess we can call it progress that we don't burn witches at the stake any longer... but I'm afraid we have a long way to go simply because driving wedges between people can be a more effective strategy for gaining power than the messy process of finding common ground.  Despots will invariably take that path either in the name of righteousness or patriotism.  History tells the story for anyone paying attention.

Offline Parity

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I guess we can call it progress that we don't burn witches at the stake any longer... but I'm afraid we have a long way to go simply because driving wedges between people can be a more effective strategy for gaining power than the messy process of finding common ground.  Despots will invariably take that path either in the name of righteousness or patriotism.  History tells the story for anyone paying attention.
I agree.
There will always be those...  However,  if we go back two three generations ago a gay man was locked up, shamed, fired etc. by the general public without repercussions of the law

Offline Evolver

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I agree.
There will always be those...  However,  if we go back two three generations ago a gay man was locked up, shamed, fired etc. by the general public without repercussions of the law
Or murdered! 😧

This is a great discussion point. How do we measure the progress towards acceptance in a sexuality or gender identity or physical attribute sense compared to a few decades ago? There is no doubt that acceptance is more widespread now, but the haters seem louder than ever!

Offline Justagirl💃

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Education is key!

A CNA asked me the other day if I am taking hormones. I told her, "honey, I don't need more hormones!"

She didn't know that was possible, yet intersex is a very common diagnosis.

I was just talking to my med nurse last night. She commented that Lane Bryant is having a sale on bras this weekend. I jokingly said, "what makes you think I need a bra?"
She commented that how strange it is that we are all born so different. So many variations even within male/females. Males with breasts and women with beards, and then intersex thrown in between. We are just all so different.

We just need to talk about it more rather than quietly shoving things into one of two gender boxes.

Offline 42CSurprise!

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Who would have thought that a website created to offer "Support at Every Step" to men diagnosed with gynecomastia... a condition that in itself carries no health consequences but which is often considered a cause for breast reduction surgery?  Honestly, over the last few years this website has definitely shifted from "the sky is falling" view to a more nuanced consideration of gender and its expression.  I was speaking with a close friend last night, observing that our worlds generally consist of no more than a few hundred family members and friends.  From this incredibly narrow slice of humanity we come to all sorts of conclusions about who we are, who other people are, how the world should work.  My guess those among us who've had an opportunity to travel to other countries have had experiences similar to mine.  Other languages, other cultures, other religious practices can shock our senses.  Yes, we can fall back into our prejudices but the opportunity is there to widen our perspective on what this human journey is all about.  Of course, as I've observed often, it is usually the perception of differences that leads to violence simply because giving credence to the possibility other views are equally valid threatens our insecurity about who WE are.

I honestly don't expect anyone to be as thrilled by my voluptuous breasts as I am.  I'm simply relieved that I no longer look at either the development of breasts on my chest OR how I relate to them as evidence of my defectiveness or perversion.  Every human being is the amazingly complex product of a lifetime of experiences.  A great deal of my life journey has been trying to understand how I came to be this person.  My journey on the estrogen highway which has led to my wearing a brassiere and feeling erotic pleasure in doing so is a recent chapter in a long story.  When we tell our stories here we invariably focus on the development of our bodies.  Only rarely do we talk about people and events that have shaped who we are in the world.  We certainly don't need to do so, but it is good to remember that our view of the possibilities of what it means to be a human being can be quite narrow.  A little humility is called for in my opinion.  A fellow I worked with decades ago loved the line "You never know until you're in the bullfighter's shoes."  Truth is, meeting life can be very challenging for most of us.  We talk about contending with breasts as men but that is a relatively insignificant problem to face.  I live in one of the wealthiest regions in the United States and I drive by many people standing at intersections with a sign that says "need help".  Watching violence in other parts of the world is bracing as well.

We are fortunate to have found a place where we can talk about breasts that have developed on our chests... about traveling on the estrogen highway.  That we are able to do that with respect is wonderful.  A few laughs and rolled eyes along the way can be good.  Hopefully, we can find a way to be fully ourselves in our lives, whether we want to or need to share this part of ourselves or not.  It is all up to each of us... to simply be who we are.


 

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