muscle building w/ low testosterone levels

[brewer]

Hello,

Question:
I know that testosterone can help build muscle mass.  Since many of us here have low testosterone/high estradiol, I was wondering if anyone can say how these levels effects our ability to build chest muscle mass.  

Background:
I had surgery 11 months ago for gynecomastia.  I am 31 years old, 6'2", 180 pounds.  I have relatively low testosterone and high estradiol levels.  My total testosterone is somewhere around 300-400 and my estradiol is about 48.  

I've been trying to build my chest muscles for about 3 months with pushups: currently about 3x20 inclined and 3x20 wide pushups every 3 days.  I think I will start doing dumbbell pushups and fly's soon.

I am fit (volleyball and basketball), but have never been able to build much muscle.

Looking forward to hearing what you think.
Eric  

[Grandpa Bambu]

Interesting question....

I am the same way. My muscles don't get big. I can tone them up but they just don't want to gain any size.  :-/

Would testosterone shots help in this case? Would I get testosterone shots from my GP?

John.

[nukem2k5]

Brewer, have you had *any* signs of regrowth?  My surgery is on the 24th, and my endo recommended that instead of treating my hormones (424 Testosterone, 37 Estradiol) now, that I wait a year and test again to see if they improve naturally (I am 18 years old).

The only thing that worries me about waiting is the chance of regrowth in that time.  I understand why she doesn't want me taking anything yet, as she told me that people's hormones typically level out by the time they're 20.  I have two years to go before we're sure, so-to-speak.

[shakamunya]

Pushups will not build muscle mass, but they are fantastic for muscle endurance.

If you want to get big, you have to eat big. My natural T-levels are quite low (similar to your range) but I am still able to add muscle; not as fast as others, but it still works. I don't think your problem is in your hormones, rather your nutrition and workout plan. I would suggest signing up at a site like johnstonefitness.com to learn about how to add muscle mass.

[Spleen]

Growing muscle has two major elements: eating sufficient protein to manufacture muscle and high-weight, low rep strength training.  What's difficult to do is gain muscle mass without gaining fat.  You can do it up to a certain point,  but it is hard to do two things at once especially if you don't have a great metabolism.  

[hypo]

Building muscle mass has a lot to do with genetics and free testosterone levels.

There is absolutely no getting away from these very real facts.

A low total testosterone level and a high estradiol level, (particularly if SHBG is not low or even raised) is a recipe for a low free testosterone level and a catabolic as oppsed to anabolic state that will make it difficult to increase and sustain muscle mass.

Brewer your estradiol on the face of it looks quite high/high normal, although I would need to see the reference range.  In combination with a low total testosterone that could have a big impact on free testosterone levels- depending on what your SHBG is.

But this is not my area of interest so I'll leave it there.

[brewer]

nukem2k5,
I have had some regrowth after surgery.  First there was scar tissue underneath the circular incision.  Now the scar tissue is soft, but the nipples are bigger than they were after surgery.  I'd like to have a revision, but my surgeon didn't think it was necessary at 2-3 months postop.  I will wait a few more months before seeing her again.  She also does not think that my hormone imbalance will effect my results, but I am not so sure of that.  I wish I could answer that question.  Some people will say that I have nothing to complain about and I definately know where they are coming from, but here is a link to my pics: http://mysite.verizon.net/ekbrewer/before%20and%20after/

Eric

Brewer, have you had *any* signs of regrowth?  My surgery is on the 24th, and my endo recommended that instead of treating my hormones (424 Testosterone, 37 Estradiol) now, that I wait a year and test again to see if they improve naturally (I am 18 years old).

The only thing that worries me about waiting is the chance of regrowth in that time.  I understand why she doesn't want me taking anything yet, as she told me that people's hormones typically level out by the time they're 20.  I have two years to go before we're sure, so-to-speak.

[brewer]

My results:
Testosterone 270 (range 241-827)
Estradiol 45 (0-54)
SHBG not done

These were actually 2 years before my surgery so I don't know what they are now.

Building muscle mass has a lot to do with genetics and free testosterone levels.

There is absolutely no getting away from these very real facts.

A low total testosterone level and a high estradiol level, (particularly if SHBG is not low or even raised) is a recipe for a low free testosterone level and a catabolic as oppsed to anabolic state that will make it difficult to increase and sustain muscle mass.

Brewer your estradiol on the face of it looks quite high/high normal, although I would need to see the reference range.  In combination with a low total testosterone that could have a big impact on free testosterone levels- depending on what your SHBG is.

But this is not my area of interest so I'll leave it there.

[shakamunya]

If you are gaining weight and it is mostly fat, then it is probably your hormone levels.

If you are not gaining weight at all, you are not eating enough. Period. Adding muscle has absolutely nothing to do with your hormone levels if you are not in a caloric surplus... if you are not eating more than you are spending, your body will never add muscle OR fat. As spleen said, your level of protein intake is important but even more important is total caloric intake.

[target3]

I have low testosterone, but seem to have no problem putting on muscle but I have a hard to losing fat.

[hypo]

Brewer if those results are then you may well have hypogonadism.

I would certainly expect you to have great difficulty putting on or sustaining muscle mass and would expect you to develop gynecomstia with those levels (if there is any gland left follwoing surgery).

You have a low testosterone level and a raised estradiol level.

The normal range for testosterone is usually given as 300ng/dl upwards.

Now it is possible that on subsequest testing with a different reference range and different equipment callibration that you might come out with low normal testosterone level- but I'm not even sure of that.

And I am fairly sure that many endocrinologists would still wish to terat you should you be around the 300ng/dl level.

This could be a clear hormonal problem

You absolutely need to see a good endocrinologist who deals with reproductive endocrinology to further investigate matters.

If you tell me where you live, I'll get you the contact details of such endocrinologists so you can make an appointment.

I will PM you with further information later today.

[brewer]

More details:
I am pretty much ideal body weight for my height.  180 pounds, 6'2".  I do have some excess abdominal fat, but I don't tend to gain weight anywhere else.  Without gaining more weight, can this abdominal fat be "used" for the chest bulk?
Eric

[shakamunya]

Pretty much, the answer is no. It is difficult to both lose fat and add muscle at the same time. To lose your stubborn lower-ab fat, you will have to work hard, eating fewer calories than normal. To add real mass to your chest, you'd need to eat more.

I understand how the eating more part can be scary if you don't want to get fat, but if you are doing weight training and some cardio, there is little chance you will "get fat" -- if you eat clean and work hard, you will put on mostly  muscle.. especially if you don't have a tendency to be overweight already. So the bottom line..... eat more protein and work hard. It will be easier to lose your stomach fat if you have more muscle to start with when you diet down.

[STILLgotIT]

nukem2k5,
I have had some regrowth after surgery.  First there was scar tissue underneath the circular incision.  Now the scar tissue is soft, but the nipples are bigger than they were after surgery.  I'd like to have a revision, but my surgeon didn't think it was necessary at 2-3 months postop.  I will wait a few more months before seeing her again.  She also does not think that my hormone imbalance will effect my results, but I am not so sure of that.  I wish I could answer that question.  Some people will say that I have nothing to complain about and I definately know where they are coming from, but here is a link to my pics: http://mysite.verizon.net/ekbrewer/before%20and%20after/

Eric

brewer, your after pics look terrific. i am one of those that don't think you have ANYTHING to worry about as far as gyne is concerned.