Anybody on here had luck with clomiphene?

[Wayne1985]

I'm taking a drug called clomiphene because my sex drive is low.

I also happen to have puffy nipples.  They only look normal and erect if I am getting out of a pool or if I give myself a titty twister.

Is there any hope this drug will take care of my nipples?  Anybody had luck with this?

I should add that I am 21, have had it since I was about 11, and am not overweight.  When erect my chest looks fine, but these babies are 3D 90% of the time

[Grandpa Bambu]

'Clomiphene' is a fertility drug for women who have problems ovulating dude. Why are you taking such a drug?

I highly doubt that a 'fertility' drug will produce your 'ideal' areola/nipple...   

GB

[flex1appeal]

You are correct about clomiphene (commonly called clomid) being a fertility drug. But clomid is known to help reduce estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less. Many bodybuilders use clomid as part of their post cycle therapy.

After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible.

Clomid, very similar to Nolvadex (tamoxifen), is classified as triphenylethylenes. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.

This has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that when use is discontinued, the estrogen level is still the same and new problems will develop much sooner. The advantage is that it works much faster and has results sooner than with an aromatase blocker like Proviron or arimidex. Therefor, when problems such as gynecomastia occur during a cycle of steroids one will usually start 20 mg/day of Nolva or 100 mg/day of clomid straight away, in conjunction with some Proviron or arimidex. The proviron or arimidex will actively reduce estrogen while the clomid or Nolvadex will solve your ongoing problem straight away. This way, when use is discontinued there is no immediate rebound.

[Hypo-is-here]

Nolvadex is Tamoxifen by brand name.  It is nothing like Clomiphene Citrate or Clomid as it is termed.  Yes they are both Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMs), but the fact is Clomiphene has a FAR greater impact on the Hypothalamus and instigates a much greater increase in GnRH and subsequently higher levels of LH and testosterone in healthy testicles.

Clomiphene has been known to re-start the HPTA post steroid use, Tamoxifen has not.

Clomiphene has also been known to cause serious problems with vision which is less associated with Tamoxifen.


Both medications in too high a dose can cause osteoporosis, fatigue, lowered libido and erection dysfunction.

[flex1appeal]

I agree that Clomid is far superior for HTPA than Nolvadex. I never implied that it wasn't. What I was stating is that they are similar SERMs. Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex

Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT, since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis

[Hypo-is-here]

flex1appeal, all I would say is that Wayne1985 is not self medicating Clomiphene be it part of PCT or anything else but is being prescibed it in order that it might increase his testosterone production due to deficiency.  What I would reiterate is that there are significant differences between Clomiphene and Tamoxifen and as you have correctly pointed out one of them is the positive influence that the former produces on GnRH, LH and testosterone.....whcih should hopefully help Wayne1985 (not sure we disagreed about anything- flat forums can make for misunderstanding).

Wayne1985 did your endocrinologist ascertain the cause of your deficiency?

I say this because it is something that makes a great deal of difference in terms of how effective Clomiphene is as a treatment.

Have you had pathology on treatment and if so what are the differences in LH and testosterone levels?

Clomiphene is best used when the individual has post pubertal hypogonadotropic hypogonadism with an intact hypothalmic/pituitary axis where the testicles are fully functional.  If there are problems with the hypothalmic/pituitary axis or where there is limited function of the testicles, Clomiphene might either be the wrong medication or external testosterone replacement therapy might be required in order to best improve symptoms of deficiency.

If you start getting any problems with your vision, blurred vision, floaters, headaches etc then you should contact your endocrinologist and make them aware of such issues.




 



   

[flex1appeal]

No hypo, I actually was not disagreeing with you at all. I actually agree with what you said.

[Hypo-is-here]

Maybe I have my Homer Simpson head on today 

[Hypo-is-here]

Wayne1985,

The best thing you can do is become more infomred about the condition that you have- hypogonadism.

The best starting point in that journey is requesting a copy of your hormone pathology results and reference ranges when you get them done next and post them to the help group below.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2/

You'll need to register which is simple enough.

Fellow sufferers will be able to help you understand what the numbers mean in terms of your health and likely symptoms.  In doing so you might find that you can help your doctor know what is likely to work best for you in terms of dosage etc.