Testosterone Therapy Update

[matthew1]

  I have very puffy nipples, now that I  am  on this  testosterone gel I will have to monitor  my  estrodiol. It turns out, one  gyne doc  I talked to wont  treat my gyne intill I get my testosterone under control. He did not elaborate.
     Everything is a two edged sword.

[matthew1]

 One week into useing the Adrogel I feel like a million  bucks, never rememeber feeling this good........ unbelievable

[skyhawk]

I remember feeling pretty good too one week into androgel. I stopped the androgel due to the breast enlargement. The doc that prescribed it didn't bother to mention monitoring Estadiol and managing E2 levels. Also. I could not afford the $50 copay every month.

I want to start back up on testosterone therapy, but do it right this time tracking and managing E2 levels. There is no doctor in my area that does that, sooooo... I am going to attempt to do this through friends that are physicians. If I can afford to pursue it financially.

Glad to hear you are feeling better Matt. Keep this thread alive.

[matthew1]

hormone history  synopses

45year old male, hypothytoid since age 13, gynecomastia[puffy nipples] since age 13 yrs. 6'7'' 290. lift weights and use elipitical machine with little results. High BF with fat around thr middle.
Put on AD meds 3 yrs ago for a bad depression spell. Still on AD meds.
6 months ago decided to check my hormones after reading possible link of hormones to gynecomastia and depression. Hired a company from the web called bodylogicmd.com.
here is me

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cf11b3127ccec2e9033a2ffa00000016100FcOGbls4Yg9vPhQ

first blood results from 12/07' prior to any hrt
cortisol morning 17.6 high range 3.7-9.5 ng/ml
cortisol noon 6.0 high range 1.2-3.0
cortisol eve 2.3 high range .6-1.9
DHEAS saliva 13.2 ok range 2-23
free T4 1.5 ok range .7-2.5
freeT3 2.4 low range 2.5-6.5
TSH 2,0 OK
ESRODIOL 81 HIGH RANGE 12-56 Pg/ML
testosterone 357 low range 400-1200
SHBG 36
RATIO T/SHDG .3 LOW range .7-1.0
psa 1.7 ok
lh 6.1 ok

started me on meds below 1/ 21/o8
T3 tablets 30 mcg daily Cytomil
Arimidex 1mg tab 2x a week
testosterone cream [ compounded] 20 mgs/ml strength, apply 1 ml dail 6x week
DR WILSons adrenal suppliments, and fish oil tabs

doing ok till about 5 weeks into HRT, I had a bad reaction in the middle of the night, itchy, sweaty, burning skin, SEVERE SUICIDAL depression return, hot flashes, stopped all of the HRT, took about 6 days and I started to feel better. In the mean time went to my primary doc, told him about my HRT treatment from another doc, he did blood tests.

blood results 3/19/ 08, 5 or so weeks into HRT, then 6 days off
FREE T 474 RANGE 241- 827 NG./ML
T4 1.30 .61-1.76
TSH .359 .350-5.50
CORTISOL 17.9 3'1-22.4
FREE TESTOSTERONE 12.4 RANGE 6.8-21.5 PG/ML

stayed off HRT, hired a new Endo doc, he said stay off HRT 4 weeks and retested blood work
4 weeks off any HRT, results
TestosteronE SERUM 305 NG/ML RANGE 350-1030
Free T 1.6 '' 1.5-3.2
free t 49 ng/ml range 52-280
shbg 43 range 20-60
prolactin 7.8 ok
ESTRODIOL .61 RANGE .8-3.5

** note how my estrodiol was low, i was very hiGH estrodiol prior to HRT
2 weeks ago my new endo doc started my on 5 mcg of T3 Cytomil, but dropped my synthroid med from 225 to 200 mcg said the t3 is potent so need to lower the synthoid as we add T3.
I got a B12 shot on my own 2 weeks ago
Started androgel 4 pumps a day 5 days ago.
Now feeling great , no depression at all. Plan on getting blood tested in another week or so, MY FEAR is my natural testosterone will stop, my T levels will drop and I will feel like SH...t
My goal is to taper off the AD meds, get gynecomastia operation for VERY puffy nipples, get hormones under control, loose fat and get a better build. thanks for looking Matt

[Paa_Paw]

You said that you got a B12 shot on your own and that you started using Androgel about 5 days ago.

Were these prescribed? Or did you do this on your own?

There is not a Dr. on this Earth that can help you if you are self medicating between visits.

The result of self medicating is that your Lab results are altered and you'll never get your medications right. Meaning that you'll also never get your hormones to stabilize.

Adjusting your reproductive physiology is not a do-it-yourself job.

Let the Endocrinologist do the job you are paying for.

[skyhawk]

Is getting a vitamin b-12 shot considered self medicating? Maybe it is. I'm not really sure. 

[matthew1]

You said that you got a B12 shot on your own and that you started using Androgel about 5 days ago.

Were these prescribed? Or did you do this on your own?

There is not a Dr. on this Earth that can help you if you are self medicating between visits.

The result of self medicating is that your Lab results are altered and you'll never get your medications right. Meaning that you'll also never get your hormones to stabilize.

Adjusting your reproductive physiology is not a do-it-yourself job.

Let the Endocrinologist do the job you are paying for.

 I do everything under a doctors presciption.
 The  b 12 shot does not require a prescription, they offer  them free to people at local health fairs.  I went to a clinic and paid 60 bucks for the shot.  I plan on another next week.

[skyhawk]

Hmmm... Maybe I should go and get some sublingual b12. That might give me some more energy. its second best to a shot. Won't do anything for the gyno, but I could use energy being i'm low T.

[matthew1]

 been all over the net at different   forums,  everyone is suggesting  the shots of testosterone are much better then the  creams, I will investigate

[Paa_Paw]

Sorry if I presumed too much.

What threw me was the B12 shot.

Here in California, You need a prescription to get either a needle or syringe. So having any kind of injection on your own was an indication that you were self medicating. At least from my perspective.

That is not to say that medications, syringes etc. are hard to find; people buy from Mexican Pharmacies.

[matthew1]

pee paw,,,,
 I had a  doctors office give me  the shot,   when I said I got it'' own my own'' I meant   none of my  docs  prescribed or recommended it, t I wanted one, found an office that offered it, went and got one.
    I will get another in a week or so.
          I will upon my next  visit to one of my docs ask for a prescription for b 12,    it is sold  in 1ml  vials  and  one  can  give oneself a shot as needed. I will have my  EMS  neighbor   give me the  shot.
 

[MSJ108]

How do you post those shutterfly pics. I can't figure it out... 

[matthew1]

 had a MRi  on my  pituitary  gland today, I wanted to  see if any  lesions on my pituitary gland  could  contribute to hormone  issues

   some general  notes on me

 low testosterone
 hi estrodiol
did not reach puberty till 18
 grew 6 ''  between age 18 - 19-20
 hypothyroid
vit D defficient [ even with being out in the sum all the time]
 puffy nipples  since teen years
 

 

[matthew1]

  updaTE

  5 weeks on  Androgel and doing well. I  upped my  dose  from 5g to 7 gram two weeks ago. Depression lifted. Tapering  slowwwwwwwly of  AD meds. I had my Testosterone tested 3 week into useing the  T  gel,  getting more  blood work with  about 25 tests  in July. At that point will decide what level of  testosterone I will  need.
 The gel has  side effects as it converts to estrogen easily  , so I will need   a  AI  to help with that. The T NATION forum I go on suggest T shots for the long run, I will consider this at a later time.   
  BIG NEWS....
                Went and paid  for  my gyne surgery  today. Paid in full. Scheduled  for  July 3rd at 10 am.  I am  getting   gyne  and  lipo  for my chin, it was only an extra 1500 to rid of double chin.
          Both scared and nervous, doc  seems competent. 

[matthew1]

 operations went well..........

 back to focusing on  hormone treatment.... doc switch  me to Testosterone shot with HCG injection starting  this monday
 gel was not absorbing well, T level  that started at 357  went  to 166!
    Between  new  chest and  new chin, T shots, and  weightlifting, hoping to look  and feel better then ever.................