Testosterone Therapy Update

[matthew1]

There are other ways to lower Estradiol than just arimidex. DIM, zinc, reducing body fat, eliminating exposure to chemicles that mimic estrogens.

When estrogen goes down, testosterone goes up. Some guys are able to increase their testosterone just by controlling estrogen through the things I mentioned above.

Some guys may do a combination. Like 1/4 pill Arimidex every 3 days, plus DIM and Zinc. Gotta do what works best for each individual.

Of course thyroid hormone also has an impact on steroid sex hormones. The only thing I am curious about, is if Matthew's doctor addressed the low T3 first, then waited to see if there was an improvement in the other numbers, would his testosterone/estradiol ratio improved? I can't say for sure. 

 I am  taking T3 treatment  everyday , with the  testost cream , and arimidex  2x a week

[matthew1]

Any accomplishment worth while will push a person to their limits. Keep your eyes focused on the finish line. Don't give up. The gyno can and will be corrected with surgery. You can do it man.

Focus on stage one. (Getting your hormones in balance) Then stage two  (surgery) is not far down the road.

It would be pointless to have done surgery with a 4 to 1 T/E2 ratio. I would bet money the gyno would have come come back.

Your doing the right thing. Stay the course my Friend.


 I appreciate you     good advice and kind words

[skyhawk]

Matthew, Although I am not in the medical profession, I am hypothyroid, and have studied thyroid in depth for several years. I would be happy to explain thyroid basics in very simple terms.

I will send you an email with the information you are seeking, along with my phone number, and you may call me anytime you have a thyroid question.

I know this sounds crazy, but human biology and health studies is my hobby. I could teach a class on thyroid basics and diagnosis.

[matthew1]

 I STOPPED HRT


I had to stop HRT  5 days ago. I had  horrible, nearly hospitalized depression. Suicidal idealizations, constant crying.. ! I have depression issues that  were at bey with meds and exercise ,   but after 5 weeks on T3 , TEST CREAM, AND ARIMIDEX  i went down hill quick. I felt depression sneaking back  a week or so ago, got  unbearable. Was having hot flashes waking me  up, once up  depression took over scary.
         My doctors and I   put the  depression  on the arimidex,  turns out  depression,  burning hot  flashes and  prickly skin sensation  are  possible side effect. It just happen to effect we very  badly. 5 days off all HRT,  starting to improve, may be another week till  I recover.
                   I was making good  progress  physically   with the HRT.
   My  primary  doc  , [ he was unaware Ihired another doc for HRT]  said we  will and would  have put me on  test cream ,no problem. I dont think he is  up to  speed on  gyne though.
           Depression   suck  the life  out of people. Tha AD meds are  no answer really.
   thanks for reading  Matt

[matthew1]

 I am returning to normal mental state  after stopping HRT  [ arimidex] 6 days ago.
  It was  h....llish, 

[skyhawk]

Wow, I had no idea that Arimidex could do that. What about other methods of controlling estrogen such as DIM and Zinc?

Are you absolutely sure it was the arimidex? How do you know that it wasn't an overdose of T3? I overdosed on T3 and fell down crying for no reason. It was really spooky. Stopping the thyroid meds gave me recovery.

The hot flashes waking you up in the night could also be hyperthyroidism from over ingestion of T3.  It can happen fast. Thyrotoxic attacks tend to strike in the night while sleeping. I've been ther, done that.

I'm not saying this was thyrotoxicosis, but couldn't help but notice it in your description.

[skyhawk]

I just googled Arimidex side effects and was stunned by the reports from women using this drug for breast cancer. I hate to admit it, but I had no idea about these side effects. Yep, Hot flashes, night sweats, tingling, joint aches, feeling old. Its all there. 

[matthew1]

hi skyhawk, I know it was not thyroid t3 because I did a full  blood work up during  all this and thyroid numbers were fine.
        Question is I want to start thr test treatment ,  but how to proceed without arimidex 

[skyhawk]

Matthew, I did some more research on DIM side effects last night. So far, I have not found any mention of bad side effects. Only talk about its safety up against other methods of controlling estrogen. I am continuing to take a hard look at DIM. Its the chemicals derived from cruciferious vegetables. You get DIM when you eat these vegetables.

SUGGESTION:  Now that your "back to the drawing board" you might want to take this approach-

1)  Tackle the thyroid issue first, since thyroid hormone has an impact on other steroid hormones, this could improve your other steroid labs. Remember, every cell and organ in your body has thyroid hormone receptors. It appears you have done step #1. 

2) Lower Estradiol without Arimidex. Try DIM, Zinc, and reduction of body fat. When Estrogen falls, testosterone rises, and you may find that supplemental testosterone was never needed.

3) After reducing Estradiol, if T levels are still too low you have the option of adding Testosterone, but it may not be neccesary if step #1 and #2 worked.

See my point?  Tackle the problem in step by step stages doing only what is needed. Its a conservative approach.

Looking back, I think your physician may have dropped cluster bombs on the hormonal problem, and you got collateral damage.

 

[matthew1]

Matthew, I did some more research on DIM side effects last night. So far, I have not found any mention of bad side effects. Only talk about its safety up against other methods of controlling estrogen. I am continuing to take a hard look at DIM. Its the chemicals derived from cruciferious vegetables. You get DIM when you eat these vegetables.

SUGGESTION:  Now that your "back to the drawing board" you might want to take this approach-

1)  Tackle the thyroid issue first, since thyroid hormone has an impact on other steroid hormones, this could improve your other steroid labs. Remember, every cell and organ in your body has thyroid hormone receptors. It appears you have done step #1. 

2) Lower Estradiol without Arimidex. Try DIM, Zinc, and reduction of body fat. When Estrogen falls, testosterone rises, and you may find that supplemental testosterone was never needed.

3) After reducing Estradiol, if T levels are still too low you have the option of adding Testosterone, but it may not be neccesary if step #1 and #2 worked.

See my point?  Tackle the problem in step by step stages doing only what is needed. Its a conservative approach.

Looking back, I think your physician may have dropped cluster bombs on the hormonal problem, and you got collateral damage.

 

Matthew, I did some more research on DIM side effects last night. So far, I have not found any mention of bad side effects. Only talk about its safety up against other methods of controlling estrogen. I am continuing to take a hard look at DIM. Its the chemicals derived from cruciferious vegetables. You get DIM when you eat these vegetables.

SUGGESTION:  Now that your "back to the drawing board" you might want to take this approach-

1)  Tackle the thyroid issue first, since thyroid hormone has an impact on other steroid hormones, this could improve your other steroid labs. Remember, every cell and organ in your body has thyroid hormone receptors. It appears you have done step #1.

 my  thyroid is reasonably  controlled  with the  synthroid I am taking, seems  about in the normal range. My T3 was a bit low and I was taking T3 as part of my HRT. Are you saying take the T3  without the test cream and arimidex to see if  that works at lowering  body fat  and thus raising test?

2) Lower Estradiol without Arimidex. Try DIM, Zinc, and reduction of body fat. When Estrogen falls, testosterone rises, and you may find that supplemental testosterone was never needed.

answer
     I have been working out  hard, I t is nearly impossible to rid my self of much body  fat with a  tesosterone / estadiol  ratio of  4/1 . Its like I need  the test cream to help loose the  fat


3) After reducing Estradiol, if T levels are still too low you have the option of adding Testosterone, but it may not be neccesary if step #1 and #2 worked.
  I do   I lower estadiol? mine is  high. Arimidex is a death sentence for me

See my point?  Tackle the problem in step by step stages doing only what is needed. Its a conservative approach.

Looking back, I think your physician may have dropped cluster bombs on the hormonal problem, and you got collateral damage.

    BIgger  question,  I want to  start back on the testosterone  cream , but I am afraid it will make  puffy nipples  even worse. I plan on getting gyne surgery soon, but am worried about  hormone issues.
       I feel if  enough  gland is remove maybe future post op   gyne may  not be an issue while on the  testosterone cream?
  it a  vicious circle  your input is welcome

[skyhawk]

It is possible for gyne to return after surgery, and more likely to return if you take Testosterone. I am making this statement based upon the experience of others on this site.

I understand that it is difficult if not impossible to lower body fat with a 4/1 T/e2 ratio. But you can do the things I mentioned to lower Estradiol and its over the counter and cheap.

Matthew, Testosterone and Estrogen compete for the same sites to bind to. Therefore if you lower estradiol, this clears the path for the testosterone your body already has to latch on and do its job. Plus, T levels should increase as well

I remember your lab numbers Matthew. It was the Estradiol that was really high. The testosterone wasn't that bad. I really believe that if you lower your E2 levels first thru alternate means, you could see some real benefits.

You have nothing to lose, except Estradiol!!

1) purchase some DIM from the health food store.
2) purchase Zinc gluconate.( 50 MG pills)
3) Purchase copper ( 2 milligram pills)
4) Purchase cruciferious vegtables from the grocery store. Get some shredded cabbage (cole slaw) in the bag. Broccoli, and Brussel sprouts.

If your interested in this I'll post further instructions. Stay with me my friend. Stay with me on this.


   

[matthew1]

 what is  dim?

 yes I am interested  in want  you have to say, please continue

    so  you think lowering estradiol naturally  with over the counter stuff works? hmmm

    I am wondering if it is prudent to stay with the testosterone cream   in the meantime?

[matthew1]

As  you may recall, I had  bad  outbreak  of depression and  pins and  needles/ hot flashes  while on arimidex, so I  stopped  HRT all together  after 5 or 6 weeks. I am  feeling better one week off Arimidex.
            My blood results  came in today, the 6 week of  HRT raised my  Testosterone  from 350 to 460. My  cortisol  has improved. He did  not  test estodiol that was high  pre HRT.
           I am considering  going on testosterone cream again,  I am not sure whether to resume the T3 or not.
           I have had  gyne already [ puffy nipples] now my concern is should I worry   about  worse  gyne if I start back on the  testOsterone  cream?

                   I want to get gyne surgery for the  puffy nips I  have lived with for 30 years but I dont think  a  doc will  work on my chest  while on  testosterone cream

[skyhawk]

Matthew,

A decision to continue with the T3 thyroid hormone woulsd be determined by lab tests. If you have low circulating levels of T3 in the presense of a normal TSH, then I think T3 is justified.

DIM is found in cruciferious veggies and is attributed to reducing estrogen dependent cancers in certain women. This is why some women with breast cancer experience a reduction in tumors when consuming these vegetables. However not all who try this find success. DIM lowers Estogens in the body. Its inexpensive, and is available from the health food store.

Zinc is a natural aramotase inhibitor. Studies have shown that zinc supplementation increases testosterone levels. care should be taken so as not to take too much zinc. A responsible zinc supplementation program could help you.

Anytime you take testosterone, the risk of increeasing gyno is there. So I would start without the Testosterone, concentrate on getting your E2 levels down thru DIM and zinc plus a well balanced diet and exercise, then recheck your labs. See how you feel physicaly, and then make a decision if you want to add testosterone. You may not need the Testosterone cream after all is said and done. 

   



 

[matthew1]

 feeling better [ depression  substantially  lifted] after  a week and a half off arimidex   AND T3.  Started  back on testosterone cream 2 days ago.
         Latest  blodd test shows cream help w/ testosterone . Estrodiol  still high.
 Meeting with  HRT in a  couple weeks to see what next move  should be .