Author Topic: What Came 1st The Chicken r the Gyne (finasteride)  (Read 11642 times)

Offline TitSeeds

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OK i'm going to tell you guys the whole story as none of my friends know the slightest thing about my medical regimens and they dont know this stuff like the people on the boards do... so please help if you can.

extreme male pattern baldness runs in my family. i asked my dad about what age did he lose his hair and he said "late 20s." At 26, i still have a completely full head of hair but i can sort of feel that it isnt as full as it used to be though not one person in history as commenting that they thought i might be going bald.  I had my barber inspect my scalp like a surgeon and he said, "well maybe... just a little."  That was all i needed to hear so i talked to my dermo. about "preventative" propecia soon after.

On Feb 15 i begin taking Proscar (divided up into 1/4ths = 1.25mg of Propecia (finasteride) daily.  No sexual side effects at all. none. Within a month it seemed like I grew chest hair over night. I've always had hairy arms/legs/private/head but i was noticeably pretty hairless (but definitely NOT bald, just thinner/finer hair) everywhere else i.e. chest/underarms.  I don't think many guys get chest hair during puberty around 13 so i guessed that it comes later in life around 25-ish and now was my turn to grow.  I did find it weird that it would happen a month into my finasteride since the drug has a side-effect of thinning hair on other parts of your body besides your head.  Or the timing of my new chest hair was just a coincidence.  The DR. says it takes about 3 months for finasteride to kick in and start working.

Between March 15 and April 15, months 2 and 3 of finasteride treatment, i notice that my gym routine is giving me way better results than what i was previously used to. Not that I was lifting more (and i'm NOT getting any bigger or putting on Muscle Pounds), but my chest area is definitely, and noticeably, more ripped than before to me. However, though it looks "firmer" in the mirror than before, it feels softer to the touch than before. This is weird to me. Before I looked softer but felt firmer. Now I look firmer but feel softer. Cannot explain it.. but i'm generally pleased with the appearance.  I chalk it up to the finasteride upping my testestrone levels and it's making my body more cut like a steroid or something.  Because I dont have noticeable hair loss, I cant tell if the stuff's working on my head or not... looks the same.
I read hair loss message boards to read about positive and negative side-effects because i am EXTREMELY neurotic about these things.

Now that month 3 is coming to a close, and I have read a ton of panic stories about gyne on the Finasteride boards, and seeing a CNN story about male breast cancer, one Friday night, i'm inspecting my pecs and notice that looking down on them, not in a mirror, there's some NEW droop to my nipples.  I look in the mirror and they look normal. I look down, and they look droopy on each side in pretty much equal measure.  I squeeze on them as hard as i can and i can feel glandular tissue behind the nipples.  I did this test a month prior and did not feel anything. I am VERY panicked. So much so I called in sick the next day to research it all day long, ending up making myself MORE nervous and neurotic by the minute. I immediately dropped my daily finesteride from 1.25mg a day to about 0.83mg - 1.0mg a day thinking my body might be overly sensitive to the effects.

Additionally, I started having nipple sensations. I dont know if they are just in my head because I have already diagnosed myself, or they are in slight pain because I had just squeezed and proded them every 20 minutes for a whole day and they are now swollen or what.  A week later, when i push on them, or pinch them, i dont feel any pain. Yet i can feel a tingle sensation from them. I poke around yet I cant feel where the tingle is coming from. Is it in my head..? or can you feel them growing?  I think i remember my nipples itchin around the time i started the finasteride but it could have been before. Not sure.  I'm driving myself insane because whereas before I panic over bald, now i panic over breasts.

i am trying to make sense of this before I go overboard. wondering are they growing or not.  could it be that i've had them all along and did not notice until i became obsessed with the side-effects of everything? as a kid, i did get pudgy during puberty and always kinda had a fleshy chest but nothing that kept me up wondering. Or could it be that the extra testestrone is... how can I say this and make sense... could it be the testestrone that is making my body more ripped, and revealing my abs better, etc., is peeling away the fat on my pecs that have covered the Gyne all these years and revealing my GYNE gland for the first time? If so, that is fine, and i will sleep easy. I just dont know how i could make sure that is it and that they are not just starting to grow. If it stays like this, I would be perfectly fine with them. Actually, they are kinda sexy, but i dont want them to grow ANYMORE.  

Can ANYONE shed some light on this for me?  Is this brand new gynecomastia Or is this old gynecomastia that's more visible because extra testestrone has stripped away a lot of pec fat?

??? ??? ???

i should also mention that i am very mentally unstable about all things health and disease and my mind often creates the symptoms i think i should have.  I routinely think i have contracted STD's from the slightest sexual encounter and worry myself to the point of actually having the symptoms. Infection Disease Dr's have routinely told me i dont have anything. i think a lot of us might be like that (with the over-worry), but dont let my neurosis affect your response.... gyne is gyne is gyne, regardless of my mental capacity. from the side my pecs definitely loook more GYNE-y to me.  :-[

I'm going for a complete Physical by my GP/internist in August.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2005, 11:42:25 AM by TitSeeds »

Offline hypo

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All you need to know about propecia.  You should not touch this drug with a barge pole!!!  
 
http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/  
 
Many men are suffering from the side effects of propecia and Proscar.  

The problems caused by propecia are much higher than the statistics quoted by the pharmaceutical manufacturers.  
 
The principle ingredient in propecia is finasteride and finasteride was first used in the treatment of prostate cancer to chemically castrate men.  
 
This is why one of the labeled side effects is lowered libido.  
 
Finasteride lowers the potent male androgen dihydrotestosterone.    
 
In doing this it can cause;  
 
gynecomastia, loss of musculature, fatigue/lethargy, lowered libido, erection difficulties.  
 
In some men these problems are permanent and the drug causes a form of hypogonadism that is very difficult to treat as explained by one of the worlds leading endocrinologists below  
 
Below is what Eurgene Shippen, one of the worlds leading experts on hypogonadism has to say about propecia and Proscar.  
 
Finisteride (propecia-Proscar)  
From: Eugene Shippen, M. D.  
Date: 5/15/01  
Time: 3:42:23 PM  
Remote Name: 152.163.195.186  
 
 
Comments  
I have become aware of a growing number of young men who started to take propecia for male pattern baldness. After relatively short intervals these men develop full symptoms of hypogonadism: decreased libido, sexual dysfunction, ED, fatigue, gynecomastia and depression. Testing shows low T and DHT, high E2, low or normal FSH/LH and normal prolactin. What is really troubling is the lack of response to T replacement, clomiphene stimulation, HCG injections. There may be significant increase in T after various methods of increasing it, but the response in all areas seems to be lacking entirely! If anyone has patients with these complaints after finisteride, please let me know as I am collecting case histories of this serious, though uncommon problem. Also, anyone who has had success with treatment, let me know at: ershippen@aol.com.  
 
Unquote  


The condition is called male pattern balding.  It doesn’t often occur in children or women because they are not men.  In using finasteride you are chemically lowering one of the chemicals that makes you male- not a good idea!!!    

Offline TitSeeds

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you said: [In doing this it can cause;  
 
gynecomastia, loss of musculature, fatigue/lethargy, lowered libido, erection difficulties.

i dont have a loss of muscles, i am having more muscles and less fat.... AND my sex drive is high..if not higher than normal. everyone using propecia does not have these symptoms. my question is about gyne. trust me, if propecia starts making my wang wig out, i'm chunking the pills PRONTO... but that's not my issue. my sex life, wang, balls, cum, and stamina are 101% perfect.  pls re-read my post

Quote
All you need to know about propecia.  You should not touch this drug with a barge pole!!!  
 
http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/  
 
Many men are suffering from the side effects of propecia and Proscar.  

The problems caused by propecia are much higher than the statistics quoted by the pharmaceutical manufacturers.  
 
The principle ingredient in propecia is finasteride and finasteride was first used in the treatment of prostate cancer to chemically castrate men.  
 
This is why one of the labeled side effects is lowered libido.  
 
Finasteride lowers the potent male androgen dihydrotestosterone.    
 
In doing this it can cause;  
 
gynecomastia, loss of musculature, fatigue/lethargy, lowered libido, erection difficulties.  
 
In some men these problems are permanent and the drug causes a form of hypogonadism that is very difficult to treat as explained by one of the worlds leading endocrinologists below  
 
Below is what Eurgene Shippen, one of the worlds leading experts on hypogonadism has to say about propecia and Proscar.  
 
Finisteride (propecia-Proscar)  
From: Eugene Shippen, M. D.  
Date: 5/15/01  
Time: 3:42:23 PM  
Remote Name: 152.163.195.186  
 
 
Comments  
I have become aware of a growing number of young men who started to take propecia for male pattern baldness. After relatively short intervals these men develop full symptoms of hypogonadism: decreased libido, sexual dysfunction, ED, fatigue, gynecomastia and depression. Testing shows low T and DHT, high E2, low or normal FSH/LH and normal prolactin. What is really troubling is the lack of response to T replacement, clomiphene stimulation, HCG injections. There may be significant increase in T after various methods of increasing it, but the response in all areas seems to be lacking entirely! If anyone has patients with these complaints after finisteride, please let me know as I am collecting case histories of this serious, though uncommon problem. Also, anyone who has had success with treatment, let me know at: ershippen@aol.com.  
 
Unquote  


The condition is called male pattern balding.  It doesn’t often occur in children or women because they are not men.  In using finasteride you are chemically lowering one of the chemicals that makes you male- not a good idea!!!    


Offline hypo

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breastseeds,

I am not telling you what it has done to you (YET) I am warning you as to what it can and has done many, many times.

If your sex drive has increased I can assure you it is not because of  propecia/Finasteride.

The same goes for your ability to lifting weights.

Like I said Finasteride is used to chemically castrate in prostate cancer therapy at a higher dose.

It lowers male androgens.

You have the information, not just from me but from those who have suffered from the long term unwanted side effects of propecia and from an extract from one of the world top andrologists.

You might not suffer the experiences reported by others.

What you choose to do is your prerogative.





« Last Edit: May 13, 2005, 04:22:36 PM by hypo »

Offline TitSeeds

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OK HYPO DANG! WE ALLLL know you hate finasteride, WE GET IT... but are you even READING WHAT I WROTE. your credibility is going down the tubes.

if propecia made EVERYONE who takes it impotent, it would be off the market by now.

and then you say, "The condition is called male pattern balding.  It doesn’t often occur in children or women because they are not men.  In using finasteride you are chemically lowering one of the chemicals that makes you male- not a good idea!!!"

Well how would you explain Rogaine for Women being on the market??  Did some mysterious drug fry their lady balls?  There is no easy answer. If all you want to do is berate me for using something like propecia, just save your typing.   On this board, everyone says i'd rather be bald than have breasts. On the propecia board, everyone says i'd rather have hair and have breasts. NOBODY WINS!  i just want someone to READDDDDDDDDD what i typed and respond without the progaganda

geez
« Last Edit: May 13, 2005, 01:44:39 PM by TitSeeds »

Offline TitSeeds

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ONE MORE THING:

Are these boards for real answers or just another way to make worrisome people drive themselves crazier???

Offline hypo

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I'm sorry you feel that way.

I never said it caused impotence in everyone :-/

But it does in a worrying percentage of men, the same goes for gynecomastia and even has a listed side effect of lowered libido.

You yourself may be developing gynecomastia yet you attack me for disliking this drug.

You said I hate propecia- yes I do.

Its principle ingredient is finasteride something that lowers androgens and it is androgens that has a large part in making males male.

Finasteride is used for the treatment of prostate cancer to chemically castrate men.  

I just do not think that male pattern baldness is a legitimate reason to risk the serious development of a hormone imbalance.

That is my personal view.

You do not have to agree with me.

Like I said you have to make your own decisions.


I wish you the best whatever you do, take care.

Offline TitSeeds

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ok dude.. i understand... proscar is 5mg of finasteride, propecia is 1mg... right now i'm only taking about .83 to keep my risk as low as possible..... BUT ASIDE FROM THAT

how do u know if you have gyne?  U said finasteride can prohibit what makes a man male... if you read my whole post, u can see that since the propecia, i've been becoming MORE male than ever: more chest hair, more muscularity....

ALLL i want to know is:

This slight very, very mild instance of gyne i have right now, is it from gyne developing OR have i had it for years and I'm just now noticing it since i have a lower body fat % and more muscle?

Offline hypo

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Quote
how do u know if you have gyne?
Unquote

That is a great question.

For some it is obvious as it is raised by doctors, in many more it is not but is patently obvious objectively to all;

For the rest it is a subjective feeling or impression that the chest does not look right (moderate or mild), some of whom are correct and some of who are worrying too much/have (BDD) Body dysmorphic syndrome, a condition where the individual thinks they look bad/differently from what they really look like.

Quote
if you read my whole post, u can see that since the propecia, I’ve been becoming MORE male than ever: more chest hair, more muscularity....
Unquote

I am not saying this is untrue, it is entirely possible that your pubertal progression has occurred at the same time as taking propecia.  This could make you think the two are connected.

I recognize what you are saying and do not dispute how you are feeling or the changes you have gone through.

It could lead you to believe that it is related to propecia.

I can assure you it is not.

I can tell you 100% that propecia lowers androgens, particularly dihydrotestosterone.

On no account has it ever in the history of medicine increased male hormones.

Quote
This slight very, very mild instance of gyne i have right now, is it from gyne developing OR have i had it for years and I'm just now noticing it since i have a lower body fat % and more muscle?
Unquote

Another great question and one that cannot truly be answered one way or the other.

If you post pictures people can give you their subjective opinion as to any issue.

Again the whole matter as to whether or not to take this stuff is your call.

You have asked for information, I have provided it honestly, what more can I say?

Other than- all the best whatever you choose to do.











Offline TitSeeds

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hey dude check your private messages pls

Offline Spleen

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Quote

i should also mention that i am very mentally unstable about all things health and disease and my mind often creates the symptoms i think i should have.  I routinely think i have contracted STD's from the slightest sexual encounter and worry myself to the point of actually having the symptoms.


To me this is where your problem starts.  In general, you might wanna get a hold of why you have neurosis about your health and body.  Counseling?  From reading your opening statement it appears that you  might have a hard time having a reasonable sense of your health because of the worry.  Empirically, it's impossible to say anything meaningful about yer teats without before and after pix.

Offline hypo

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Spleens concerns are true..

Another example of how truth and caring comes through no matter what...

Offline Paa_Paw

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Propecia is 1.0 mg of Finasteride and claims that it is not an Androgen Antagonist.

Proscar is 5.0 mg of Finasteride and is prescribed precisely because it is an Androgen Antagonist.

Somehow these two statements do not seem to agree.

The uses of Proscar include Prostate problems, Chemical Castration, and (with Estrogen) Hormonal Feminization of Male to Female Trans-gendered.

I'm glad to be Bald!

The decision is yours, but we have heard from many young men who have had problems.

I would hope that the Doctor who supplies you with the Finasteride is also monitoring your reproductive Hormones.   Or, are you using an underground source without Medical supervision?

Good Luck!
Grandpa Dan

Offline TitSeeds

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Offline aux513s

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I'm surprised the FDA hasn't banned this drug yet.

It really worries me to think that doctors are handing dangerous drugs like this out to people. Maybe all the finasteride victims can get together and file a class action lawsuit.


 

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