yoga and herbs

[zarathustra]

I'm new here, so hello to all.
Bit of background:
I'm 22, 6'2 and currently about 200 lbs.
I've had this ailment for as long as I can remember, dating back to at least grade 1.  I was an obese child, and I believe that was the cause of my condition.
When I was 18, I went on a very unhealthy diet and went from 250 lbs - 170, but this failed to cure my condition as I hoped it would.  
After giving up on pure weight loss, I started strength training regulary for the next 4 years.  Moved my way back to 250 lbs gradually over this time (however, MUCH more muscle than fat this time)..

About a year ago I decided I'd try again.  I started to trim up, and for the past few months I've completely scrapped the weight training (since it proved ineffective) and started pure yoga instead.  Currently I do it daily for about an hour or just over.

I've noticed definite decrease in that time.  And more recently I've started supplementing my diet with high-lignan flaxseed and curcumin to get an hormonal edge.

I still have a lot of chub I know I can burn off (ass stomach as well as chest) and I'm hoping this will further reduce my problem.  However, from talks on this board, I'm afraid it seems surgery (and to a much lesser extent) drugs are the ONLY solution...

I was wondering if anyone had some inspiration for me.  Someone who cured their condition through physical dedication..  Or perhaps experienced success with yoga (or lack of success...)
Yoga has scientific support of being very beneficial to the body as a cleanser and can cure many conditions on its own.  My hope is it will provide some effect that other exercise disciplines do not in the battle against gynecomastia.  This is pure hope though.

I can honestly say my condition is better now than ever before (even when I weighed 30 lbs less).. however I am still a far cry from being carefree.

I think the main part of my problem is softer tissue, and if I could eliminate it, I might be able to get by without surgery (that I can't afford).  

I have 2 months to win.  At that time, I'm off to Croatia for some fun in the sun - which is like a date with the executioner for someone like us.  

IF I fail, I'm very open to hear about methods to cope with such a trip..  ie.  what you all may have done to avoid taking off your shirt... faking illness, injury, etc etc....

Anyways, I'll keep you posted on any success I experience since I haven't seen much discussion on yoga-ing to a cure anywhere on this board or elsewhere...

Please let me know if you have any information that could be beneficial to my cause.  I'd much appreciate it.

Godspeed.

[STILLgotIT]

zara, if you dropped your weight down to 170 @ 6' 2" and you STILL had the boobs, then I would say that you are NOT going to be able to deal with it by weight loss. 170 is pretty lean for someone who is 6' 2" (I'm 6' 2", as well, so I know).

post some pics for us so we can get a perspective.

[brother_gyne]

I trying yoga to get rid of the stoop I got trying to hide the gyne. I use the gym a lot but yoga has given me a different direction which I like.  I feel good on it and I think my posture is improving.

I found being thin made the gyne I had look worse, having some weight/muscle  did hide it but just a bit. The only thing I found that works is an operation.


Try hard to get the money . Is the Zarathustra Zorastrian or  Nietzche

[Puff]

Yoga won't get rid of gyno.  Why would it?

You've got to exercise and eat healthy to lose weight.  Yoga is not strenuous enough to cause any substantial weight loss.

[Paa_Paw]

You refer to a fat ass.

Obese men often use suspenders because as they lose definition of the waist, they cannot keep their pants up.  conversely, women who put on extra weight usually put it on around the hips, buttocks, and thighs. Not as much around the waist which remains well defined.

Fat deposits in the breasts, hips, buttocks, and thighs; is called Gynecoid Obesity.

If this is what you have, You really need to see an Endocrinologist who specializes in reproductive issues before doing anything else.

Good luck!

[zarathustra]

No digital camera so no pics, sorry..  Hahah.  Not really in the mood to ask my friends to take some shots!

As for yoga, I daresay it can be strenuous enough to cause weight loss.

I've lost weight doing it (15 lbs so far combined with a healthy diet).
In fact, if I compare how I feel after an hour of yoga to how I feel after an hour at the gym doing pure strength training, a) I'm more exhausted from yoga and b) my muscles recover daily so I can do full body every day instead of limiting myself to muscle group cycles as I must with weights.  Also I don't have those annoying breaks between sets that I feel take up half the workout in the weightroom.  Yoga is continuous ie. constant energy use.

The reason why I mention it as opposed to other exercises in general is because it isn't like other exercises in general.  It creates more of a mind-body connection (mind over matter?  hahah unless it was a joke it sounds like someone's had some success in this department...) and it benefits many disorders.  I figured who knows?  Maybe it will benefit gyno too.  I've trusted in more foolish fancies, as I'm sure everyone here has.

Gynecoid Obesity you say?  I'll check into it..  My ass isn't SO fat that I ever thought I had a worrisome condition...  In fact, many ladies comment on liking my ass for it's round fullness.    But thank you for the advice.  I've been looking for endocrinologists in the Toronto area, but internet hasn't been helping too much.  I reckon I should just go to the hospital and inquire.  Anybody know any good ones???

And Zarathustra as in the Zoroastrian.  I'm certainly not a nihilist, although somedays I sure as hell feel like I am.  Damn gyno.  Hahaha.  Maybe Nietzche had gyno too, which inspired his philosophies..

[zarathustra]

Hmm.  It seems 'I disagree' replaced the words I thought I used a couple times in that post..  Sorry...

Why did it replace 'my ass' with 'I disagree'?
Very strange...
In case it did it again, I meant to say 'my butt'..

[webster]

ZaraT - I have read quite a few posts on this site and I have never come across anybody finding a substantial improvement to post-pubetal gynecomastia with anything other than surgery.  

IMO it is possible to control gyne by exercise and diet, but you’ll never get a resolution so it’s not an issue in your life.

I’m 40 and have gyne since 11 or 12. During my 20’s I spent a lot of time training for judo matches. I’m 6’2” and at that time weighed 175lbs. I got my chest to the point where I would go to a swimming pool (on a cold day anyways) with only a few worries. But I couldn’t devote the amount of time required to be that fit all my life and in the last 10 years it got worse as I got fatter (up to 225lbs).

So I’m having surgery in 2 weeks. I’ve dropped a bit of weight to 200lbs and I do look better without those 30lbs obviously, but the gyne’s still there. I’d love if I could drop another 30lbs and that would mean I don’t need surgery – but I know for sure I’m kidding myself.

But I do think that yoga would be good to reduce gyne. I used try to do yoga to increase flexibility and stamina when I was doing competitive judo. It always amazed me how much sweat guys doing a serious yoga session generated. But you gotta do it pretty hard.

If yoga doesn’t improve your chest much in 2 months then when you get to Croatia you will have to develop a keen interest in the castles and monuments inland.
ATB. Webster.

[zarathustra]

Thanks webster.  
That was exactly the kind of inspiration I was going for.

Right now I do yoga 6 times a week for over an hour each session.  I've combined a lot of pilates and other exercises (push ups) to try and tighten up my core and add even more of a cardio element to the workout.

Even if it doesn't acheive results I can bare, my confidence is still higher than it's ever been.  

And I survived 2 weeks in Greece, so maybe I can survive a month in Croatia...  

Sometimes I question my priorities when I, without hesitation, slap 3 grand down for a trip that could have paid for surgery..

Ah well.  If only the student life was more lucrative...

[webster]

Ur best bet is to lose as much weight as u can (it's gotta make some difference right?) and carry on with the yoga / aerobic stuff. Avoid dairy products - even milk. Its got estrogen in it. Eat green veggies / tofu and fish. You can make quite a difference to ur chest in 2 months, if you really try.

This fall, get surgery somehow if you reckon you must be rid of your gyne for good. You'll never have more time left than now.

Once you get a job, wife, kids etc you'll struggle to get 5 mins to read the paper on the bog let alone get the time to have surgery and take weeks to recover.... well thats my story anyway.  
Laters.. webster.

[Paa_Paw]

I think you are missing the importance of what I said.

Gynecoid (feminine) distribution of fat could indicate some glandular problems, Possibly serious problems. 

If you are having problems finding an Endocrinologist, see your regular Doctor and get a referral.  

"ladies -- liking -- it's round fullness"

Masculine=Angular, firm

Feminine=Round, soft

Another indicator of trouble is that you say you've had it since first grade  That would be about the age of 6 years.  Gynecomastia before the onset of puberty should always be investigated.

FYI: Gynecomastia is not a disease or ailment. While it can be an important symptom sometimes, the condition itself is so common that many people believe it is normal.

Leave the philosophy alone long enough for a reality check with your doctor.

[hypo]

zarathustra,

I think posting your pictures would be helpful.

The saying goes that- pictures paint a thousand words.

So  

If you have posted them already I apologize.


One small thing I would like to add is just to say that losing weight in general is good but losing weight so that you are lower than your natural weight is not desirable.  

In fact if you go too far with such action you may develop gynecomastia more readily.

This is because gynecomastia can occur by a process called refeeding.  

Refeeding is a process whereby the individual becomes too low in weight and this interferes with their pituitary function, causing a temporary hormonal imbalance.

Malnutrition being the extreme- can result in an effect similar to a second puberty.

So weight lose whilst being a good thing, like most things in life is about moderation.

I think that you could not go far wrong AT ALL in listening to a man that has lived with this condition for a darn long time- Paw Paw has it right.

[tonysoprano]

zarathustra,

I think posting your pictures would be helpful.

The saying goes that- pictures paint a thousand words.

So  

If you have posted them already I apologize.


One small thing I would like to add is just to say that losing weight in general is good but losing weight so that you are lower than your natural weight is not desirable.  

In fact if you go too far with such action you may develop gynecomastia more readily.

This is because gynecomastia can occur by a process called refeeding.  

Refeeding is a process whereby the individual becomes too low in weight and this interferes with their pituitary function, causing a temporary hormonal imbalance.

Malnutrition being the extreme- can result in an effect similar to a second puberty.

So weight lose whilst being a good thing, like most things in life is about moderation.

I think that you could not go far wrong AT ALL in listening to a man that has lived with this condition for a darn long time- Paw Paw has it right.

wow.. I think this really hits home

When I was about 19, I had kinda mildpuffy nips and though I need to lose some weight ( I was only 5'8 ft. 62 kilos anyway).. so became obsessive/almost kinda anorexic and dropped by weight with extreme diet and exercise to about 56/57 kilos.

needless to say my gyne got worse between 19 and 22/23, when it tapered off, but I also became extremely hairy(in weird places like my back , neck, shoulders etc) after age 20, though its hard to say whether this would have happened anyway. My dad who is 60 had only  a patch of chest hair, which is what I had until age 20.
so you kinda got be thiunking now, bout this second puberty.

anyway, if it wasnt a second puberty than it was the antidepressants and anxiety medications I was on for a year at 19 , and if not then I guess it may have been daily pot-smoking between 16 and 22. who knows.
Maybe it was even all the milk I drink every day

I guess my point is that I made myself so sick becoming so skinny, and looking back now, when I got back to a normal (for me, still low for the average person) weight My gyne was worse,plus I was really fuucking hairy to boot. way to worsen a situation huh? (If in fact this hypothesis was what actually happened)

[tonysoprano]

what you reckon hypo ? a 2nd pubertyy" ?

[hypo]

It is possible that if you became anorexic the gynecomastia could have got worse by the process of refeeding.  

Such cases are well noted so it is a possibility.

I couldn't say much more than that and there are probably other possibilities that would account for your situation as well.

In cases of refeeding, usually through severe malnourishment there is a lowering of androgen levels (not sure whether this occurs at the hypothalamic/pituitary level, the testicles or both).  

In those going through puberty, puberty can stop.  

When the individual is given food, re-fed, hence the term refeeding and health and weight becomes restored to a norm, the individuals endocrine system kicks back in again and this can cause a temporary hormonal imbalance akin to a second puberty.

If the individual was going through puberty of course they would now continue to go through puberty as they normally would, but again could well experience that hormonal surge/imbalance.  

If you started to get quite hairy after you put weight on, that could be an indication of a surge in testosterone, I say this because hair growth like you have mentioned can occur quite rapidly due to an increase in dihydrotestosterone, which itself being a metabolite of testosterone can only increase when testosterone increases.

So I guess there is some circumstantial evidence that could point to refeeding, but it could of course be coincidental and the changes you went through due to different factors.