Our Brother? Our sister? One of Us...

[42CSurprise!]

For those who believe two sizes fit all... here is another expression of being human.  He is not trans but is definitely a she... mind boggling in reality... of course, to tell the story fully he/she needed to supplement with estrogen... our friend and companion.  We didn't need supplementation though.  Nature took care of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7gUADQsO0w

[Dudewithboobs]

I dated someone who was intersex in my 20s. Couldn’t tell a difference other than as she explains some areas felt different. But bodies are different and wasn’t a something is off here. She eventually told me a few months in and it wasn’t a shock or concern or “does this make me gay” idiocy it was just a thanks for telling me I’m sure that really sucks to have to live with and who you can tell and appreciate you trusting me with it. 

I definitely wouldn’t consider her a he/she. I assume she was assigned female at birth, lived raised and developed as a woman other than a few obstacles faced prior to and after diagnosis. I look at intersex women similar to men with significant gynecomastia. They have testes instead of ovaries and we have breasts instead of pecs. Doesn’t make us she/he’s. And I’m not being combative here so forgive me if it comes across as that just I see intersex as a singular gender. It would be like calling trans people he/she rather than just he or she. 

[Johndoe1]

We have an expert anong us on the subject if they wish to discuss. How cool is that!

[Justagirl💃]

Androgen insensitivity can present itself in many many variations. 1/1500 children are born under the umbrella term "intersex". 
Interesting enough, some experts even include those born with a micro-penis. 

Some might be assigned female at birth, and others male (depending on the extent of development towards a specific gender). Many times surgery to "fix the problem" was prescribed, and the children were surgically modified to be females. 

Some of us it's a "coin toss" at deciding gender. 

Either way, the doctors gender determination can be completely wrong from the actual individuals as they mature. 

How does it feel to be intersex? Well, being told you are in the wrong locker room because you lack a penis and have to sit to pee whilst supporting breasts makes for a horrific childhood. Family that can't decide between themselves whether to raise you as a girl or a boy just adds to the confusion. 

As an adult, getting admitted into the hospital (last friday) and the nurse bringing condom catheters because of my paperwork, then looking at things and saying, "oh, bring me a PureWick catheter (female) because these will not work" makes for hilarious situations. Then the nurse saying, "sorry ma'am".

Sex has always been interesting, and "toys make the world go around". 

Birdie 💖

[taxmapper]

No formal diagnosis but plenty of other "symptoms". 

But trying to ask 'what it is like"? it is like trying to tell someone who doesn't have a left arm what a left arm is like. 

Another way of putting it is that having the programming of both sides is 'normal' but trying to conform to one side or the other. 

[42CSurprise!]

I stumbled on that video and because I watched it YouTube threw a few more at me.  What is clear is that there is a great deal of variety in how human development unfolds.  Typically, these things aren't talked about with those who are different in some way often living with great shame.  That was what this person was doing with her video... releasing shame by telling the truth.  Being different is always difficult, regardless of what makes one different.  Certainly boys with breasts will face cruelty.  It has been talked about on this website.  Finding release from long carried shame is not easy but ultimately it is essential if we're going to find freedom to simply be who we are.  That is what we're doing on this side of the site.  Who we are  and how we express ourselves is completely up to us.

Of course, this young person is very beautiful.  That surely makes life easier.  I'm delighted for her that she has found freedom.

[Justagirl💃]

Finding release from long carried shame is not easy but ultimately it is essential if we're going to find freedom to simply be who we are.  That is what we're doing on this side of the site.  Who we are  and how we express ourselves is completely up to us.

42C, you sussed that one up quite well.

Just remember that "shame" is based upon "perceived societal norms" that we have been TAUGHT.
There is not a "gold standard" in how we are formed as individuals.

Every individual has been created specially by the creator of the world to be exactly who and what they are.

Shame and embarrassment is completely in our own minds.

We have breasts, oh well! Learn to enjoy them and be proud of them.
Some of us don't have anything downstairs, consider it a blessing. In my case I have a "penis" that looks like a clitoris, and a zero depth vagina. Without the testes I would look 100% female. I am quite proud of the way I am built, but I used to be ashamed. The shame was all in my head.

If it's allowed to happen, it's within God's plan.

[42CSurprise!]

This young woman experienced essentially what you have Bridie... looking between her thighs she looked like a woman.  Remarkably, the scrotum can be either a sack to carry testes or the flesh that surrounds the opening of the vagina.  The process of becoming either a boy or girl is quite complex with hormones dancing.  Clearly, things can unfold in surprising ways.  But, as you observe, we live in societies that have IDEAS about how things SHOULD be that then drive behaviors.  That is why witches were  burned and why black people were enslaved.  These stupid prejudices still exist and still play out in our communities.  It is a fortunate human being that sees through these illusions.  When we do we invariably feel better about ourselves and kinder toward people who are different.  It is called growing up.  It is worth doing.

[Johndoe1]

I'll admit I wobble back and forth on the shame issue. There's times it eats me up inside and other times it's a f* it kind of thing. I am trying to determine if it's related how my mind is being effected by the estrogen or testosterone at that moment. It's probably just BS in the long run. I also am finding the whole gender/non gender debate society is having tedious and I am to the point I don't care either way. I am what I am and it is just that simple. That and my bra is being difficult today. 

[Moobzie]

From 42c:
"and why black people were enslaved"

It's well to realize that slavery is not, and was not, exclusively suffered by black people.  White Europeans were captured and taken to Africa and arabic lands to be enslaved (> 1 million 1500-1850), indigenous peoples in the western hemisphere enslaved each other routinely waaay before Europeans got there, and in Asia and India slavery was common.  And slaughter.  And mutilation.
Slavery still exists (Africa, and especially in China).  Slavery is a human problem not confined to one region, epoch, tribe or culture.

[Justagirl💃]

 
Remarkably, the scrotum can be either a sack to carry testes or the flesh that surrounds the opening of the vagina.  

Or in some cases (intersex), both. 

[42CSurprise!]

"The only thing that truly needs to be fixed is the way we treat people who are different from us. We can do better."  Emily Quinn

What I've Learned From Having Balls

And Moobzie slavery exists because of human capacity to dehumanize the other.  There are many ways to do that but, surely, the easiest is to rely on physical differences to  demonize/brutalize another person.  The color of skin works beautifully for that purpose... all over the world and forever.  That was doubtless one reason why indentured servitude gave way to full fledged slavery in this country.  Finding an escaped white person is much more difficult than finding an escaped darky.

[42CSurprise!]

I'm learning a great deal from these amazing people.  There are THIRTY different expressions of intersex experience.  We have two recognized genders and a panoply of possibilities.  As you've noted Birdie, it is estimated almost 2% of humans stand outside the norm.  That is approximately 160,000,000 people.  Time to get over our fetishes about gender.  As so many of these intersex people are saying... treating their differences as justification for medical intervention is criminal.  Those things happen ONLY because parents and medical professionals are so terrified by differences... We live with shame simply because the world wants everyone to stay in one of two boxes... boxes defined by Madison Avenue and religious fanatics.

Funny... when I came to this website I had no idea this is where conversations about wearing brassieres would lead... freedom.  None of us has deserved to live with the shame and confusion we have.  And ultimately this has less to do with what we wear than how we express our full humanity.

[Moobzie]

42c:
Yeah, yeah, yeah....I know: life and injustice are only about skin color (yeah, right).

I was merely stating the fact that slavery has been around since pre-history.  None of the pyramids - which we find in Asia, Africa, and the western hemisphere - were built by union contracted labor.  Nor were the 'owners' differently colored from the slaves they forced to construct them.

[42CSurprise!]

I find it interesting Moobzie that in this conversation on gender the one item about which you felt the need to take exception was a single line in which I note that blacks were enslaved... a simple statement of fact on American history that continues to reverberate through the body politic.  Don't you have anything to say about the amazing array of gender expressions?  From what you've said before I have the feeling you prefer the two box approach.