Gyne, Low testosterone, and Symptoms.

[skyhawk]

Hey guys, I have been diagnosed with "Very low testosterone." My numbers are anywhere from 180 to 240. And thats in the morning when T levels are highest.

I am suffering from exercise induced muscle fatigue. I would be very interested in hearing from anyone else who has also has this same diagnoses.

[flex1appeal]

I found this list of symptoms on a site that talks about low testosterone. How many of these symptoms do you experience currently???

Symptoms of low testosterone can include:


A lack of energy;
Low libido (sex drive);
Depression;
Irritability;
Fatigue;
Postural problems;
Increased blood pressure;
Loss of muscle;
You exercise consistently but can't add any lean muscle;
Loss of muscular strength;
Loss of muscular endurance;
Physical height reduction;
Your erections are not "rock hard";
Sleep disorders.

[Time_to_fix_it]

Hey guys, I have been diagnosed with "Very low testosterone." My numbers are anywhere from 180 to 240. And thats in the morning when T levels are highest.

I am suffering from exercise induced muscle fatigue. I would be very interested in hearing from anyone else who has also has this same diagnoses.

I assume your doctor is investigating the cause of your low T levels?  I also assume you are suffering from gyne otherwise you wouldn’t be here, so I wonder what your oestradiol levels are like.

[skyhawk]

Flex, yes all of the above synptoms with the exception that I do not feel depression. I've keep my spirits up thru all this. Also, I can build some muscle mass and I can tone and cut my arms, BUT, it requires alot of work to get very little results. I have increased my bicepts. Pilates type exercises do strenthen my mid section and add tone to the leg muscles.  Again, its alot of work for small results, but hey, I am 50 with low T.

Time to fix, Estadoil levels were normal. Can't remember the exact numbers.

They did an MRI to check for pituitary tumors. That came back clean. No further action or investigations with regard to testosterone.

 

[flex1appeal]

estradiol levels can be normal but when you put it into perspective, your t levels aren't and therefore you could have a bad ratio of estrogen to testosterone. That's the bottom line....the ratio and not the normal ranges. Though you do need things to be in normal ranges of course. Your next step should be seeing an endocrinologist bro. Bypass the GP's altogether!

[Time_to_fix_it]

Yes the phrase “normal” is a very vague word given the huge bandwidth that labs regard as the “normal range”.  The "normal range" can cover men from the age of 16 to 90 and as you can imagine the testosterone (T) and oestradiol (E2) levels of men varies greatly with age.  Also as Flex1appeal has mentioned it isn’t just the T and E2 results that matter, it is their balance.

You might have read this before so I’ll try to be brief:

The T “normal range” for the lab I use is 14 - 40 NMOL/L (UK measures).  You would expect a man in his 20s to be near the top of that range and a man in his 90s to be near the bottom.  However if a 20 yr old man gets tested and his result comes back at 15 NMOL/L (therefore a low value), a GP or inexperienced doctor will often say that it is ok because it is within the “normal range”.

Likewise the E2 “normal range” for the lab I use is 55 - 184 PMOL/L (UK measures), so as long as your result falls within that range a GP or inexperienced doctor will say that it is ok because it is within the “normal range”.

The important thing to remember is that glandular gynecomastia is simply caused by an imbalance of androgens (T) and oestrogens (E2 is the most potent one).  Finding what is causing that imbalance is often the challenge.

There are a number of reasons why a male can develop gynecomastia  The following causes of gynecomastia and percentages are taken from a medical paper .. The Endocrinology of Gynaecomastia by AAA Ismail and JH Barth (Department of Clinical Biochemistry and Immunology, Leeds General Infirmary, England.)

Cause                                (%)
Idiopathic (unknown)           25
Puberty                              25
Drugs                              10-20
Cirrhosis or Malnutrition        8
Primary Hypogonadism          8
Testicular tumour                  3
Secondary Hypogonadism       2
Hyperthyroidism                    2
Renal Disease                       1
Others                                 6


A male can have a low T and low E2 level but because they are in balance he may not develop gyne.  Likewise a male may have high T and high E2 levels and again because they are in balance he may not develop gyne.  The problem usually arises when either T is low and E2 is normal or high, or when E2 is high and T is normal or low.  In these instances although the values for both hormones are still within the “normal range”, the balance is lost and gyne is more likely to appear.

The point I am trying to make is to take the phrase “within the normal range“ with a very large pinch of salt.  It is the balance that matters as well.

Again as Flex1appeal says, if you aren’t already seeing a decent Endo then get your GP to refer you to one.  Unfortunately a run of the mill Endo is sometimes in the dark regarding this subject; most of them specialise in the more common diabetes ailments and often don’t have the in depth knowledge or experience required to investigate causes of gynecomastia.  I personally went through 2 Endos before I saw one who knew more than I did on the subject, and my knowledge is very limited.  There are doctors called Andrologists who specialise in the male hormonal system.  These are the real experts and if you can get to see one of these then you won’t go far wrong.

I think that the bottom line is you need your low T levels investigated and treated, and there are a number of options for that so that your quality of life can improve.

Sorry I said I would try to be brief and as usual I have rambled on  .  All the best to you.

 

[skyhawk]

You were not rambling at all. I soaked up every word. Thanks. That chart is very helpful.

Interesting about the hyperthyroidism causing gyne. I am taking Armour thyroid replacement hormone which contains Both T4 and T3 thyroid hormone. My labs in the past have shown my FT3 to be "Sky high."  This concerns me that T3 toxicosis may be playing a role in my development of Gyne. But when I bring it up with the docs, it gets completely ignored and swept under the rug.

So far my only labs out of range are Testosterone- "very low",
And Free T3 thyroid hormone 'Sky high."

When I asked my GP if the elevated Ft3 could be supressing testosterone levels and contributing to the gynecomastia, he appeared to resent the question.

[matthew1]

''When I asked my GP if the elevated Ft3 could be supressing testosterone levels and contributing to the gynecomastia, he appeared to resent the question.''

  Did you  punch your doctor in the stomach  for good measure?