Yes he CAN mess a lot of stuff up. But if he does it properly it will be RELATIVELY safe. Notice the CAN and RELATIVELY in the sentence. Steroid ABUSE is not safe and can result in some serious side effects.
This is unequivocally NOT true. Why?
Many people with underlying liver or renal disease do not know they are suffering from any problem at all and the use of AAS can often cause serious complications in those who have such underlying problems.
Furthermore hypothalamic/pituitary damage/injury can occur with resultant endocrine disease as a result of the levels of testosterone achieved via AAS and major long term problems can result. You cannot know if you are a man that this is likely to occur in and you cannot know if this is due to being predisposed to endocrine issues or simply a cause and effect that occurs, you also cannot know if this will happen after one cycle or ten cycles as there is evidence of it happening in a whole variety of circumstances.
Many men turn up in fertility clinics years after AAS use, so much so that the statistic of this happening has alarmed many people working in the field of fertility. Again such issues can occur as the result on one cycle or many cycles.
We also know that supraphysiological levels of testosterone, like low levels of testosterone are harmful in a variety of ways be that its adverse affects on the heart, lipid profile etc..so in the short term you are also putting your body under pressure that is frankly not required.
You could argue that these problems are statistically unlikely to that I will say this;
A) What use is it in arguing the statistics of the matter, if you are the one that ends up with the problem as some do? I mean I don’t think the fact that such problems are not statistically high are going to make you feel much better if they occur to you, do you?
B) Given the above, logically why would anyone want to open themselves up statistically to these problems (amongst others) when you simply do not have to risk any ill health whatsoever by simply avoiding AAS? I mean there is zero medical need here so the risk to health is unnecessary.
Moving on, given that most steroids are from a blackmarket source how can you know what you are taking is what it is supposed to be at the dose it is supposed to be?
Also how can you know that the AAS you are taking have not been made in contaminated conditions?
The fact is most people absolutely cannot side step these potential problems.
Steroids are a major contributor of gynecomastia cases
This really depends on your definition of MAJOR. If you factor the amount of gynecomastia cases in the world, and the amount of those cases that are induced by steroid use, I bet you that the number wouldnt be considered MAJOR by anyones standards. BUT, if you did confine these numbers to steroid users only, it would be relatively high in comparison to the previous.
Factually and categorically you are incorrect here.
AAS abuse has been found to be one of the major causes of gynecomastia in the last 15 years and of course testosterone has a VERY strong association with the development of gynecomastia. Bodybuilders are a major sources of income for plastic surgeons treating gynecomastia. In fact such is the propensity for testosterone’s ability to cause gynecomastia, that even in testosterone replacement in hypogondal men where testosterone is only replaced to levels within the normal range (as opposed to the vastly high levels seen in AAS abuse) we still see a significant number of men suffering from gynecomastia- and this is in a community often widely aware of the affects of E2 and its treatment with ancillary meds such as SERMs and aromatase inhibitors.
But to the main point here, that of AAS- as opposed to testosterone in TRT.
Glen D Braustein endocrinologist detailed the relative causes of gynecomastia in the 90s and this was concurred with by Ismail and Barth biochemists in 2002 in their important white paper entitled Endcocrinology of Gynecomastia.
Page 597 includes the statistical data of the relative frequency of causes.
Drugs cause 10-20% of all cases of gynecomastia, number 1 in this list of drugs likely to cause gynecomastia is Anabolic steroids.
Now at this point you can try and argue the relative merits of PCT. But I am telling you irrespective of PCT, factually that AAS has been found to be a major cause of gynecomastia by both endocrinologists and plastic surgeons alike. I can also tell you for a fact from being on this website for around 2-3 years that we very often see men arrive here as a result of AAS abuse.
You could argue that you can minimize the risk of developing gynecomastia via PCT. Whilst you might be able to lower the chances of developing gynecomastia via PCT, you can also still quite easily end up with gynecomastia and/or other adverse side effects irrespective of PCT- no matter how well carried out.
You talk of minimizing a risk- I prefer the term lowering the risk as minimizing is from a potential semantic point of view is too close to the word minimal and the risk that people can face irrespective of PCT is FAR from minimal and depends as much on the luck of your genetics as anything else.
Again why would anyone want to open themselves up to a statistical risk of gynecomastia and other side effects when there is no need to entertain any increase in risk by simply not taking AAS at all?
So IF anyone wants a decent chance of ending up with gynecomastia or health problems, then a good way to go about trying to obtain such problems is to go on steroids.<<
There is definitely a chance, however you can GREATLY minimize these chances. This is a personal choice of risk vs. reward. To many the risk will outweigh the reward if precautions are taken, to others it will not. No one, including Hypo can make that choice but the individual who is doing the weighing.
Yes there is ALWAYS a chance of developing gynecomastia and that is true irrespective of PCT so given that categorical fact why risk it at all?
Risk having breasts and adverse health including potential pituitary damage and permanent hypogodism or liver damage etc to for gains that can be achieved in a healthier way by being clean and working hard?
The fact unless you are a professional bodybuilder with a professional team of chemists, and doctors behind you performing regular pathology and regular more wide ranging health checks, then you are taking on risks for gains that can be achieved clean and the risk is much higher than the reward.
I would argue against the use of AAS at the top pro level- but at least the risk reward scenario can be argued more at that level and at least the risks are kept lower..
There can never be a decent/legitimate argument for your regular joe taking AAS, they do not have the knowledge, expertise, facilities etc to remotely minimize risks (though many have the ego to think they do and fall on their face). The potential gains outside the pros can be gained via hard work and the monetary reward for a certain level of gains does not exist.
Stay clear of them unless you have a medical need!!!
This is by far my favorite statement. "A medical need". I wonder how much meds are prescribed to people who DO NOT have a medical need. i.e. anti depressents etc. I would be willing to put A LOT of money on the fact that many people have had complications up to and including death from being prescribed a drug that was a "medical need". If I wanted to argue this further, I would ask if you could show me ANYONE who has died as a direct result of taking steroids.
Sorry but your attempt to turn the onus of proof of a thousand years of scientific thinking on its head via semantics is not going anywhere.
First of all I agree that many drugs are incorrectly prescribed, cause side effects and worse.
Secondly and importantly- two wrongs do not make a right and any logic that attempts to suggest otherwise, flawed.
In other words just because the medical community is sometimes irresponsible in its prescribing of anti depressants and other such drugs, that absolutely does not lead to a logical position where you say, so therefore further risks to health are legitimized because the categorically are not.
So I do not and will not argue with you about the point you make as A) I am in agreement with the point, B) it is NOT the subject matter being debated and C) the logical implication you open up is completely wrong and fatuous.
Poor prescribing of legal drugs is wrong, abuse of AAS given the lack of medical need is also wrong. Therefore the minimizing of the former is something everyone excluding some in the pharmaceutical companies would call for and the latter is something that should not remotely be encouraged.
Your last point is also extremely poor.
First of all no one dies from AAS abuse in the same way that no one is ever really reported as dying from Aids or osteoporosis or old age, or low testosterone, or low growth hormone, or Alzheimer’s etc.
It is always secondary problems that people die from that are caused by the original condition. People die as a result of low testosterone/low growth hormone induced CVD or strokes, but the latter two are what you will find on a death certificate. The same is true for all of the above and for many other conditions and situations.
If you want to take a look at the history of testosterone induced heart attacks, liver failure etc you will find enough information. One example of deaths are from a particularly poor form of AAS from years gone by, from methyltestosterone and induced liver tumors.
That is an extreme due to its 17 alpha methylation, but lots of injectable testosterones take a first pass on the liver and have the potential to cause liver issues and like I said cause serious problems in those with underlying unknown liver disease.
We also know that only deaths immediately post AAS are remotely likely to lead to mention of this abuse being a causative factor of death on any death certificate.
We also know for a fact that there are a wide variety of adverse abuse of AAS and sometimes serious side effects, some permanently life effecting that have been reported such as CVD, heart attacks and strokes.
We also know for a fact that many of the adverse effects can and are caused by AAS abuse. We know for a fact that not a single decent medical establishment or health authority on the planet recommends the use/abuse of AAS or is anything but dead against such use/abuse. Not one single credible cardiologist, endocrinologist, andrologist etc (choose any specialty you care to think of) on this planet recommends there use/abuse.
Now either the entire medical establishment in all areas of the world and all its credible practitioners and specialists are correct in that the use/abuse of AAS is hazardous for health and unnecessary or people who argue that the use/abuse of AAS are correct in their thinking.
I think I know who I will let my judgment rest with!
Get me any bodybuilder in the world who thinks they know what they are talking about who disagrees with me and bring them here and I will have the debate and wipe the floor with them on this subject matter so that people can see the health ramifications. Bodybuilders beware, take me up on this and I will take you as far and as fast outside of your comfort zone that your head will spin!!!
lmao. my friend, there are MANY doctors who use steroids themselves... I doubt you would mop anything with them (and no, that does not mean that I believe all doctors know what they're talking about - BUT there are some doctors who do keep up with the times and are knowledgable).
First of all I am FAR more knowledgeable than most endocrinologists on the issue of male sex steroids (let alone doctors who do not specialize in this area of medicine), pathology and effects according to two of the endocrinologists that I have seen who have treated me.
I am one of the most educated laymen in the world on this subject having seen the pathology of thousands of men, having seen and corresponded with some of the most educated endocrine authorities in the world for years on the matter of sex steroid use and effects. I have read an exhaustive number of medical endocrine books on this subject and am also a member of a number of endocrine societies that study the use of androgens.
Secondly and this is the MOST important point and in fact the singular reason for my statement that you have laughed at (as opposed to ego, the above was just some factual information about me);
I make the statement because; irrespective of anyone else’s knowledge which may oppose what I have to say, the nature of reality is still the same.
You could argue that the earth is not flat with any geologist in the world no matter how educated they are, because the inherent facts prove that the earth is not flat.
I can and would successfully argue that AAS use/abuse is hazardous to health when there is not medical need and I can do that with anyone in the world irrespective of any knowledge they may have on the matter, the inherent reality remains the same- that I am correct on this.
Nobody and I do mean nobody can successfully argue otherwise as the entire medical opinion and weight of evidence across the world stands against them. In fact my opinion is no more than an extension of the greatest medical authorities in the world on this matter as it is in perfect alignment with them….how do I know this?
Because I have spoken with them!!!
I take testosterone every single day and have done for years (prescribed), I have been on many differing forms of testosterone delivery systems and doses in myself and have studied the affects here and in others over many years. The same is true of ancillary meds such as HCG, SERMs, aromatse inhibitors, dihydrotestosterone etc etc
P.S
We never even got onto the issue of the potential problems and side effects of PCT, pct essentially being a bodybuilders term for just a variety of protocols to minimize the effects of elevations in ancillary hormones and accompanying adverse side effects. I have studied the effects of the meds concerned in myself and others, seen the actual pathologies and pharmacology and of course experienced the relative effects.
You can try and misquote me, take statements out of context, alternatively you could try and argue minor points or attempt to focus the debate on minor issues. What you cannot do is argue the greater wider points at play here. So if you are going to come back, please do so with some medical sources that support the use/abuse of AAS otherwise I will just accept that you only have empty rhetoric and nothing of consequence.
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