This will raise your confidence..

[User]

I think you are mistakenly giving credence to the psycho babble mumblings of someone who actually doesn't know what they are talking about, hence my last post.

I was just trying to salvage an argument out of the jumble of words he had posted (in particular I was responding to the post before mine).  Beyond that there's little coherency or insight in IAmNotABody's posts.

I would be interested if he dropped the facade, would be interested to hear what he has to say about his own experience without trying to be profound.

Because every person has a story of interest and I’m sure this guy is suffering either from BDD or gyencomastia or both and does have a genuinely interesting story- at the moment it is buried.

I agree and hope he returns to this thread.

[Paa_Paw]

I developed Gynecomastia about 1949,  about 40 years before the surgery was developed to remove it.  

Yes,  I got teased.  Yes, I felt shame.  Yes, it was a terrible torment.

I never got to like it, but I never allowed it to be the determinant of who or what I was or became.

I learned to live with it,  It was called growing up. The people who called it that did not have to deal with Gynecomastia, so such talk was cheap.  Often, talk was also cruel.

Over time I developed different priorities.  I still have the Gynecomastia, not just puffy nipples but round, firm  breasts.  It is just that there are more important issues in my life now.  

If the surgery had been available when I was a young man, Would I have taken that route?  Perhaps, Who Knows?

As for the self depriciation, surgery will not fix that!

Most of our torment is self generated.

You will need to work on your self image before the operating room can be of any value to you.

[ibarumah]

wise words

[IAmNotABody]

Thank you all for your replies. I know you have given your condition as well as my, and others', words consideration. Therefore, within the energy of reciprocity, I offer my consideration for yours.


Hypo wrote, "Meaning what precisely?" in reference to what I stated, " We cannot change the way we think about gyne at all."

What I mean precisely is YOU, Hypo, cannot change your mind. Try it. Try to live in non-conflict about your contempt for your perceived shortcomings. It is not easy,is it? What I mean is, how can we, from a position of hatred for our bodies, feel equanimity for our bodies if we insist on looking at our hatred from the level OF the body? The truth is we will not live in the fullness of peace unless we do the inner work necessary to value emancipation FROM body identification. As little bodies running around the surface of this planet, we will feel attracted to guilt of worthlessness. It is that simple. Its veracity remains unaltered by anybody's campaigns of incredulity. IF we were not attracted to pain, would painful thoughts persist in our consciousness? Straightaway, we would see pain is the result of one and peace of the Other. Clearly then we can see pain is welcomed by our minds.


Hypo wrote, " If you mean to say we cannot change the way we think and the problem of gynecomastia is purely a psychological one, therefore surgery is no answer; then by your own terms there is no answer as according to you we cannot change our thoughts."


Well, yes, in a way. WE cannot change our thoughts. But that is not to say our thoughts will remain unchanged if we demonstrate willingness to investigate them and offer them to the Wise Unseen.




You also wrote, "You paint a very gloomy and entirely untrue picture that may be based upon yourself but is certainly not the reality for most of us."

Is it I who paint the 'gloomy' picture? Or do I simply evoke your decision to have a gloomy experience of what I offer? In other words,do you think you see YOUR gloominess in my words? But you are right on one side with one twist. What I offer IS based on my experience but does not come FROM my self. You are entirely right about what I offer not being the reality for most  here insofar as if it were, this exchange would be moot: We would feel no discomfort about our teets.


Hypo wrote, "Some of us choose to live with the condition, others opt for surgery, as individuals we have very different thinking and reasoning in making such decisions."

Thinking is the problem. What type of thinking do you mean? Aristotelian logic? Or just whatever makes sense to you that can be validated by others? Does your 'reason' have insight into something that it does not manufacture? Do you see 'reason' of which we are capable has a plan of its own to which you, we, are all slave-- WILLING SLAVES.

Hypo wrote, " For instance I would be happy if my gynecomastia was reduced so that I could go out in a shirt without being stared at in public"

Hypo, you WANT to be stared at. Otherwise, how could it happen? Is an alien will imposing itself upon you? Or maybe there are accidents and happenstance that afflict your small sense of worth? You care about what others think of you because you hate yourself on a deep level. Make no mistake, my brother.

The truth is, Hypo, and everyone else on this board including myself, want to stay confined. We want nothing of Freedom. We want nothing of peace. We want to fix things on a physical level and make the problem physical. And what we want is what we have.

Thank you all for an interesting lesson this day.

[IAmNotABody]

User wrote, " I think a few of IAmNotABody's statements have been misinterpreted."

Very much so.


"When he said that "we're not in control of our thoughts" he meant those people who obsess over gyne and opt to have surgery to correct it."


Please do not assume you know what I meant. Please offer me the respect of a question instead of the arrogance of conclusion. What I mean is NOBODY, not one being who is still convinced it is a body, has control of his thoughts. Properly understood, we relinquish Understanding to be conlficted minds convinced we are matter.


"His argument is that after the surgery the psychological trauma and disgust for gyne will persist. "

Yes. However it is not so much an argument has it is a truth.



"But I have no idea what that has to do with getting the surgery or not?  The reason most people decide to get the surgery is so that they'll look "normal" and thus fit into society.  That won't instantly change any internal feelings about gyne, it'll just make interacting with other people possible without being physically self-conscious (note: I'm only talking about people who get the surgery)."

What I wrote has to do with surgery because if one does not Ask for Help beyond the personal mind--surgery or not--this one's anguish will continue unabated except it will be perceived outside himself while being experienced within when it comes to gyne. When will it end? How about when this one becomes paunchy, bald, old, decrepit?

You are worried about fitting into society but you are not interested in living the truth of Who You Are. Do not make this society's fault. It is not the source of your disquiet. YOU ARE. The members of this mad society who incite your self-consciousness confer a gift of unmeasurable kindness upon you. But this will remain concept, belief, theory, until YOU, User, my brother in Spirit, come to Helplessness. Giving up is not what the weak do; it is what the wise do. That said, give up. Come apart at the seams. And most importantly, Ask Spirit for Its corrrection of you tortured mind.

That is all for now.


Thank you for allowing me to offer this this day.

[IAmNotABody]

Kelley wrote, " I find what Iamnotabody said was a complete condradiction, we can't control our thoughts?"


Well, of course you find what I offerred complete contradiction. You look at what I write from a level OF contradiction. So now the questions becomes, "How do I, the personal mind that calls itself Kelly, contradict myself? I do not really know beyond what contradiction would suggest. So I appeal to You, The Wise Unseen, to take my mind and expose the errors that misguide me."

If you can make that appeal with sincerity, we will continue. If not, go your own way.

[IAmNotABody]

Hypo wrote, " At the moment the guy is a charlatan and wasting our time. "


Then why do you give your precious mind energy to my words? What do you seek to get from me? If I am a charlatan and a time waster to you, then go away. Do not make me your babysitter. You have Shakespeare for that.


I can see straightaway my words evoked seismic disturbances within you. Good. That is because I am Light. And Light WILLS to expose darkness.  To the extent that you see I am not the source of your disomfort but only the catalyst whereby your projections are revealed, you may receive what I have. But if you see me as a disjointed aspect of your mind, you will continue to blame me for YOUR consternation.

If you do not see past the form of my employed metaphor, the integrity shining through will be lost to you.

That is all for now.

[hypo]

Oh please.

What do you expect anyone in their right mind to make of all that other than- twaddle.

I am really tired of all these philosophical threads, they offer little especially when the individual posting them is doing a very poor job of sounding like someone out a Shakespearian play.

You’re about as deep and profound as chicken soup my friend.

People on here need practical support regarding issues like surgery, medications, how to live with gynecomastia, endocrinology and such like.

A bit of fellow support doesn't go amiss now and again which might involve comments on the psychological factors- sure...

But all this philosophy is getting a bit much :-/

P.S

Especially when it is written this badly

[IAmNotABody]

I see Hypo and I are attending this site at the same time. Is that an accident? Or were we Led here together? Though you insist I have nothing to offer, you eyes cannot not look at my words. So you lie to me, yourself, and all else who are Led to this thread. In truth, you come to this thread because you seek escape from your anguish that NOTHING ELSE WILL ASSUAGE. You know that. I know that.  Surgery will not do it. Medicaitons will not do it.  'Fellow support' will not suffice.  Shakespeare will not lessen the turmoil of another staring at you. Everybody will remain unfulfilled until they Realize the truth of who they are.

To focus on syntax and mechanics is to defend yourself against liberation FROM what is bothering you, Hypo. Can you not see your mind distracts you? Why do you come to these boards if you have it all figured out? Go get surgery and be happy with it, and do not feel guilty about doing what you want to do. Go be human. But do not complain when the problems of lumbering along the periphery assail your tired mind inasmuch as YOU chose it.  You are still chained to discontent about others staring at you, are you not?

I see you and all else were/are sent here BY Spirit. This is a Fact. I see my resolve fortified through the lessons of mirrored relationship.  And for that, my brothers, I am beholden.  Thank you all for the liberation I feel at this moment from shame and anxiety about walking around shirtless, with a T-shirt, or with a collared shirt and tie. The power I formerly gave to valuing self-debasement I feel is redirected to Confidence. So Kiwi prophesied this a while ago: I do indeed feel very confident.  Thank you Kiwi for starting this thread.

All minds are joined. All works for good-- except in the 'judgment' of our limited minds.

[IAmNotABody]

I am Spirit Eternal. No mad machinations about myself can hold sway over a mind that seeks its Source. Is it not arrogant to demand our ideas can delay truth? Our minds are tired and overwrought with feverish pursuits because we know not of our True Heritage.

Discomfort is aroused only to bring the NEED for correction forcibly into awareness.

I am the Answer to your requests for escape from torment. They have been heard and are addressed herein. If you think you can forget what is given you in this thread, you underestimate the power of your own mind and render it impotent. So Help is given NOW. If you pass it by, then do not complain about your misery.  It is time to live in and by Confidence and allow the dross to slough off.

For anyone interested in seriously radical transformation of their minds, give me a message; and I will return.

[target3]

Yoda in the hizzy.

[hypo]

He is either a troll messing around on the boards or he is a wacko, either way he seriously needs to take a course in English writing

[webster]

Perusing this site over the last months I have felt a variety of emotions.
But this thread has me p*ssing my sides laughing. IAmNot you have brought me joy this day. Amen and bless you.

Webs.

[hypo]

Be careful Webster or he will turn you into a frog.

[webster]

Rivet.