This will raise your confidence..

[kiwi]

Can some1 get me these 2 info?

1. How many percent of men have Gyne?
2. How many Gyne men's problem was solved/reduced by mere exercise and diet control (or any other way except surgery)

I am sure that answers these 2 quests will leverage our confidence...

[IAmNotABody]

Thanks for the post, Kiwi. Like you we all struggle with self-contempt as evinced by our combat on the gyne battleground. It is because of my own struggle that I suggest you will not leverage your confidence by any answer to those two questions.

What if you discover a high percentage of men are afflicted with this condition but elect to have surgery to 'remedy' their tortured minds? Is there really safety in numbers? As far as I know, there is no other way to rid one's body of gyne than surgery.

HOWEVER, let me ask anyone who had surgery, even though you feel better about yourself-- if that is the case--can you look upon another man afflicted with a pointy chest and feel anything other than equanimity? I am willing to bet not. some may say they feel 'compassion', 'empathy', or some other contrivance; yet, in the final analysis, those are simply other forms of contempt-- just appearing in an illusory guise. It is a ruse insofar as this 'compassion' and 'empathy' identify with weakness instead of strength. There is nothing weak about hating a part of one's body. The truth is: NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THEIR MINDS!

They still feel a sense of shame about gyne, the only difference being they are fooled into thinking the shame is for someone else. Would I prefer to be flat-chested? You better believe it. Still, there is Universal Order; and we live in It. What percolates to my awareness is the possibility gyne is NOT a body issue but a thought disturbance. We are disturbed by our thoughts ABOUT gyne, not so much the fact we have teets.

[target3]

Iamnotabody, we are not supposed to change the way we think about gyne after surgery, just the way we feel about ourselves.

I think everyone who feels compassion or empathy for someone else with gyne felt the same we pre and post surgery. I know I do.

[TitSeeds]

since i saw this board, i've been starin at guys chests whereever i go, all day long   anyway, i swear 90% of all guys have it. nobody has a completely flat chest.

[boobhater22]

::anyway, i swear 90% of all guys have it. nobody has a completely flat chest.::

Not all chests need to be flat. As a gay male, I think well developed, kind of muscular chests look the best. It is the pointly nippes...the huge, fat, female-like breasts that I find disgusting to the point that it almost makes me want to puke. But one doesn't just have to have a completely flat chest...that's nice, but a well developed, somewhat muscular chest is by far quite a bit more desirable...and that isn't perfectly flat.

Of maybe I am just misunderstanding what you said. Maybe you consider well developed, muscular chests (without gyne) to be flat or equally desirable as flat chests. To me a guy with a perfectly flat chest is not nearly as appealing as one who has a well developed, muscular chest...but anything is better than gyne...gyne is absolutely disgusting and repulsive to look at in my mind.

[TitSeeds]

hey boobhater look at my other post (which came first the chicken r the gyne) and tell me what u think pls... be honest

[IAmNotABody]

 "Iamnotabody, we are not supposed to change the way we think about gyne after surgery, just the way we feel about ourselves. "


Are feelings preceded by thought? Have you asked yourself why you feel a certain way about gyne in the first place? Emotions are preempted BY thought; thought is their bedrock. We cannot change the way we think a bout gyne at all. Try it. Try to change your mind about it. It will not work. We are not in control over our own thoughts. We are powerless over our contemptuous thoughts of gyne. That is why surgery seems to be a resolution; however, as I pointed out, even post-surgery we still feel disdain FOR gyne-- be it only for another's deplorable condition. So clearly our minds have not been purged OF contempt; the contempt is only projected outward on another.


Boobhater personifies this clearly in, "...but anything is better than gyne...gyne is absolutely disgusting and repulsive to look at in my mind."

So if he has gyne, got surgery, and now feels better about himself, this disgust and repulsion WILL remain IN his mind TO look at because there is no transformation at  his mind level.

[target3]

What is your point? I agree with you, we still despise gyne. Why should we change our thoughts to the opposite? to adore gyne? Some of us just think that guys having breasts just don't look good.

[jc71]

If it's really gyne, the exercise won't help but it'll help your overall health and clear your mind.  

I agree with IAmNot 100% that gyne is a thought distrubance. Having gyne is not necessarily wrong, it's our thoughts and the thoughts of society that make it so. I believe it's much easier to have the surgery and "right the wrong" than it is to change the thinking of society.  

Although the best scenario would be self-acceptance and not getting the surgery.  If someone can truly do that they're a stronger man than me.

I still don' know what "equanimity" and "ruse" mean.

[hypo]

Iamnotabody,

Complete psycho-babble.

Quote
Are feelings preceded by thought?
Unquote

What a stupidly redundant question, even in rhetorical terms.

Quote
We cannot change the way we think a bout gyne at all
Unquote

Meaning what precisely?


If you mean to say we cannot change the way we think and the problem of gynecomastia is purely a psychological one, therefore surgery is no answer; then by your own terms there is no answer as according to you we cannot change our thoughts.

You paint a very gloomy and entirely untrue picture that may be based upon yourself but is certainly not the reality for most of us.  

Thankfully most of us do not fit into your stereotype.

As individuals we all have different feelings towards our gynecomastia.

Some of us choose to live with the condition, others opt for surgery, as individuals we have very different thinking and reasoning in making such decisions.

For instance I would be happy if my gynecomastia was reduced so that I could go out in a shirt without being stared at in public; I am not bothered what my chest looks like when undressed.  But what is true for me is not necessarily true for other people; you see we are all different.

Quote
That is why surgery seems to be a resolution; however, as I pointed out, even post-surgery we still feel disdain FOR gyne-- be it only for another's deplorable condition. So clearly our minds have not been purged OF contempt; the contempt is only projected outward on another.
Unquote

Rubbish.

What you are referring to there is (BDD) Body Dysmophic Syndrome; perhaps you’re extrapolating from your own experience and imposing that upon other people, most of whom will not feel that way?

Either way it is plain wrong.

You are saying that the physicality of gynecomastia is not the issue, that even if it is removed the psychological trauma remains.

But this is simply not true for the majority of people.  

Most people who have surgery and are happy with the result are never seen again on these boards, they tend to get on with their lives and put gynecomastia behind them.

Why you choose to employ extravagant language that is beyond your linguistic ability in order to paint broad pseudo-psychological brush strokes is beyond me-

We can all decide to speak bizarre semantic clap trap, but it ties some people up in knots and it is not called for.

e.g.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.  


P.S

How about speaking from your heart about your own experience with honesty and integrity instead of trying sound as though you are offering a sermon in psychology?

[boobhater22]

"Iamnotabody, we are not supposed to change the way we think about gyne after surgery, just the way we feel about ourselves. "


Are feelings preceded by thought? Have you asked yourself why you feel a certain way about gyne in the first place? Emotions are preempted BY thought; thought is their bedrock. We cannot change the way we think a bout gyne at all. Try it. Try to change your mind about it. It will not work. We are not in control over our own thoughts. We are powerless over our contemptuous thoughts of gyne. That is why surgery seems to be a resolution; however, as I pointed out, even post-surgery we still feel disdain FOR gyne-- be it only for another's deplorable condition. So clearly our minds have not been purged OF contempt; the contempt is only projected outward on another.


Boobhater personifies this clearly in, "...but anything is better than gyne...gyne is absolutely disgusting and repulsive to look at in my mind."

So if he has gyne, got surgery, and now feels better about himself, this disgust and repulsion WILL remain IN his mind TO look at because there is no transformation at  his mind level.

I find gyne disgusting, not because it is an unfortunate medical condition, but simply because it detracts from the beauty of the male body; it takes something that can be beautiful and makes it something that is ugly and completely lacking in beauty whatsoever. I like beauty; that's all there really is to my feelings. Gyne destroys beauty; gyne, therefore, is repulsive. There needs to be now transformation at my "mind leve"--I know what I find attractive and what I don't; gyne is ugly and repulsive. I can hardly change the feelings of what I am attracted to.

[xxxxxxxxxx]

Can some1 get me these 2 info?

1. How many percent of men have Gyne?
2. How many Gyne men's problem was solved/reduced by mere exercise and diet control (or any other way except surgery)

I am sure that answers these 2 quests will leverage our confidence...

No one can really answer that question. You can chose to believe what the stats show but they tend not always be true.

[kelley]

I find what Iamnotabody said was a complete condradiction, we can't control our thoughts? It could be said that we can't control the simple passing thoughts of our consious, but surely we can control the deeper thoughts that define each of us, this is where what we find moral and logical comes from, if we had no control then our animal instincts would take presidence over societies morals, and that just doesn't happen. And I find it completely insane that we will always feel shame, so if someone does horribly in school then strive to get better, will never truly be proud of themselves? I do agree that there isn't anything morally wrong with gyne but why do you do try to over simplifly the average human mind into a infantile mind?

[User]

I think a few of IAmNotABody's statements have been misinterpreted.  When he said that "we're not in control of our thoughts" he meant those people who obsess over gyne and opt to have surgery to correct it.  His argument is that after the surgery the psychological trauma and disgust for gyne will persist.

But I have no idea what that has to do with getting the surgery or not?  The reason most people decide to get the surgery is so that they'll look "normal" and thus fit into society.  That won't instantly change any internal feelings about gyne, it'll just make interacting with other people possible without being physically self-conscious (note: I'm only talking about people who get the surgery).

I don't understand the point of what you're saying.  Like hypo said I think it would be better to write using a less verbose style.

[hypo]

A quick examination of the syntax and his use of words shows that he is trying to write in a way and style that he is unfamiliar with and in fact totally unable to carry off.  He is trying to write in a way that lends an air of psychology mystique, but when you read what he has actually had to say;

I think you are mistakenly giving credence to the psycho babble mumblings of someone who actually doesn't know what they are talking about, hence my last post.

He is trying to be deep and profound.

But what he has said thus far is as deep and profound as a bowl of chicken soup.

The syntax in which he has used words like evinced and lines like;

'can you look upon another man afflicted with a pointy chest and feel anything other than equanimity'.

Is absolutely pathetic, an absurd attempt at something resembling dickensian/shakespearian English.  

e.g

The extract from Hamlet below could be mistaken for being him, if only it wasn’t for the appropriateness of the placement of such words in their rightful context.

Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th' unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin?

At the moment the guy is a charlatan and wasting our time.

I would be interested if he dropped the facade, would be interested to hear what he has to say about his own experience without trying to be profound.

Because every person has a story of interest and I’m sure this guy is suffering either from BDD or gyencomastia or both and does have a genuinely interesting story- at the moment it is buried.

Telling his own story would require him to write in his own language with his own words as opposed to a collage of words that have been mindlessly stuck together with the aid of an open dictionary in the hope of impressing someone.  

But will he do that and offer something worth reading?

To be or not to be that is the question?