FIRST AND/OR LAST POST - up to you

[boobs are normal]

   
Having lurked  on the site for 3 or 4 years I have been provoked by the recent somewhat toxic atmosphere into making some observations. Perhaps  a little less pertinent than a week ago!! Sense seems to be being restored

First,  at risk of being vilified, I confess to being a full time bra wearer and yes I wear  “panties” ….and before some get their boxers in a twist the ones I wear regularly pass muster in a very macho locker room. The only person who notices is myself because they are comfortable. My panties are indistinguishable from the male version of a slip brief in the changing area

I will wear any bra that gives comfort whatever style that works regardless of fabric. I do try to be discrete -  Before entering the locker room I use the loo to change into a plain sports bra or crop top. The guys have in the past seen my chest and without comment and seem to understand that I need it.
I am not a crossdresser except from the fact I can buy some more comfortable clothes in the womens department. As far as I can see nobody on this site deserves to be called a crossdresser (just look at photos on a CD site. No one on this site is seeking to present themselves as female!!

I have been much helped by this site, perhaps the only sensible place on the net until recently.
One or two individuals now seem intent on destroying it with intolerance (to a point which would be illegal in the UK). Repeatedly churning out the same view that the site is not what it used to be.

Posters change, there is more open discussion in society , Of course the site has changed and some find it hard to accept the recent discussion of bodily changes that  often go hand in hand with gyne. Nothing stays the same, nor should it.

I don’t want to go on and on, but I will say that you collectively have it within your power to make or destroy this forum to the detriment of everyone  who have many and diverse needs. Many unknown to you. There could be hundreds put off by the purely argumentative atmosphere.
Just stop deliberately misreading logical argument and trotting out an entrenched points of view in reply. It helps nobody – even those who you pretend to try and protect. We would all find it easy if only everyone shared our opinions!

I am sorry but cup size is NOT an indicator of the need of a bra. Deep discomfort  and superficial soreness is and  a bra is a no risk, and minimal cost solution. I speak with the great authority of one who began wearing as  a 36A!! and the backing of the family doctor who diagnosed Gyne and found hormone profiles that have over time resulted in in a slightly more feminine shape around waist, buttocks and thighs that he predicted…. and further breast growth. I have adjusted as necessary.
I am comfortable, I could I suppose do without the panties but how is that a sensible  choice ? No one goes out of their way to buy uncomfortable clothing.
I take great exception to potentially being classed as a crossdresser by some posters here

I agree that the young do not need to have bras thrust upon them, but if they have pain and / or discomfort we would be negligent if it were not at least mentioned and discussed ,it is after all, a risk free solution.

A personal note:
Posters that I have found extremely helpful in their insight and reasoning seem to have gone a bit silent and in fairly recent days one has taken a Sabbatical and another has said they were leaving the forum (I really really hope they didn’t mean it)

WHERE NOW?
IMHO:
1 This site badly needs some firm  and on going moderation at least in the short term. No one seems to really moderate in a meaningful sense
2 Posts that break the rules of the site should be deleted. How many actually have read what they agreed to?
3 Anything that is off topic should be transferred to a new thread or referred back to the poster.
4 People who are almost acting like trolls within the forum (completely wrecking some recent serious threads) or who persistently break forum rules should be warned and if necessary barred

It works on other good forums, why not here?

[boobs are normal]

Thanks Dude

[blad]

There was progress in moderation with the removal of comments by one "Willam" that were inflammatory. 

[42CSurprise!]

I arrived toward the end of what appeared to be a difficult exchange about the matters you discuss.  Apart from one thread that I dropped into near the end, I've found the conversation to be open and respectful.  Someone made reference to one person who apparently had been a fly in the ointment for some time.  Quite honestly, the whole subject is fraught with confusion and challenging psychological triggers.  What man expected he'd be confronted with having outsize breasts and/or nipples?  I've certainly experienced my share of shame over the condition of my chest, beginning when I was a teen.  I guess one way to protect one's masculinity is to make damn certain nothing feminine appears on the scene.  I appreciate the discomfort those protectors of masculinity must be having.  I guess a moderator could offer those folks some guidance in being more respectful.  As is often noted, having breasts and attending to them is not the same as crossdressing... even if we end up buying brassieres and wearing them.  Yes, doing that does open up a different relationship to having breasts and we each find our own way in navigating that.  It is different than wanting to mutilate our chests.  Acceptance is perhaps the road less traveled, but it is certainly worthy of respect.

[JohannK]

I'm not normally one to read walls of text, as it can get pretty hard to take everything in.  But I made an exception here, so I'll try to give my view on the matter as well (posting my replies inside the quote, instead of quoting different sections one at a time).

   
Having lurked  on the site for 3 or 4 years I have been provoked by the recent somewhat toxic atmosphere into making some observations. Perhaps  a little less pertinent than a week ago!! Sense seems to be being restored

First,  at risk of being vilified, I confess to being a full time bra wearer and yes I wear  “panties” ….and before some get their boxers in a twist the ones I wear regularly pass muster in a very macho locker room. The only person who notices is myself because they are comfortable. My panties are indistinguishable from the male version of a slip brief in the changing area

As I said earlier and I'm sure you've seen, I won't pretend not to be a bit irked by this.  Even reading discussions about bras here can get a bit iffy for me, even though I understand the legit need for them.  That's just how it is, and that's also why I tend to avoid such threads.

I will wear any bra that gives comfort whatever style that works regardless of fabric. I do try to be discrete -  Before entering the locker room I use the loo to change into a plain sports bra or crop top. The guys have in the past seen my chest and without comment and seem to understand that I need it.
I am not a crossdresser except from the fact I can buy some more comfortable clothes in the womens department. As far as I can see nobody on this site deserves to be called a crossdresser (just look at photos on a CD site. No one on this site is seeking to present themselves as female!!

You do make a valid point there, people on this site don't take it to such levels (at least not while posting here).  That said, there have been a few members who seemed obsessed with being as feminine as possible.  As I've said recently, my definition of crossdressing has changed from simply wearing something of the opposite sex to wearing it for the sake of it (for lack of a better way to put it).

I have been much helped by this site, perhaps the only sensible place on the net until recently.
One or two individuals now seem intent on destroying it with intolerance (to a point which would be illegal in the UK). Repeatedly churning out the same view that the site is not what it used to be.

Posters change, there is more open discussion in society , Of course the site has changed and some find it hard to accept the recent discussion of bodily changes that  often go hand in hand with gyne. Nothing stays the same, nor should it.

I don’t want to go on and on, but I will say that you collectively have it within your power to make or destroy this forum to the detriment of everyone  who have many and diverse needs. Many unknown to you. There could be hundreds put off by the purely argumentative atmosphere.
Just stop deliberately misreading logical argument and trotting out an entrenched points of view in reply. It helps nobody – even those who you pretend to try and protect. We would all find it easy if only everyone shared our opinions!

This also ties in with what you said a bit further down, I'm against overmoderation.  Thought policing is not a solution, it only leads to bottled up frustration (and outright anger at the world).  And unfortunately this is something that's happening on a global scale, and usually forums are dragged into the same policies.  There are obviously cases where moderators should step in, but sometimes (personally I feel it's usually the case) it's better to let things work themselves out.

I am sorry but cup size is NOT an indicator of the need of a bra. Deep discomfort  and superficial soreness is and  a bra is a no risk, and minimal cost solution. I speak with the great authority of one who began wearing as  a 36A!! and the backing of the family doctor who diagnosed Gyne and found hormone profiles that have over time resulted in in a slightly more feminine shape around waist, buttocks and thighs that he predicted…. and further breast growth. I have adjusted as necessary.
I am comfortable, I could I suppose do without the panties but how is that a sensible  choice ? No one goes out of their way to buy uncomfortable clothing.
I take great exception to potentially being classed as a crossdresser by some posters here

True, cup size isn't the only thing to consider.  Not all large breasts are too sensitive to go without protection, and not all small breasts are "just skin".  Chafed nipples are not fun, and it can happen regardless of cup size.  That said, larger breasts do tend to benefit more from a bra (and it's easier to justify a bra if you have large breasts).

I agree that the young do not need to have bras thrust upon them, but if they have pain and / or discomfort we would be negligent if it were not at least mentioned and discussed ,it is after all, a risk free solution.

I definitely agree there.

A personal note:
Posters that I have found extremely helpful in their insight and reasoning seem to have gone a bit silent and in fairly recent days one has taken a Sabbatical and another has said they were leaving the forum (I really really hope they didn’t mean it)

WHERE NOW?
IMHO:
1 This site badly needs some firm  and on going moderation at least in the short term. No one seems to really moderate in a meaningful sense
2 Posts that break the rules of the site should be deleted. How many actually have read what they agreed to?
3 Anything that is off topic should be transferred to a new thread or referred back to the poster.
4 People who are almost acting like trolls within the forum (completely wrecking some recent serious threads) or who persistently break forum rules should be warned and if necessary barred

It works on other good forums, why not here?

Also, welcome.

EDIT:  Changed the font colour of the in-quote replies, as I noticed just making them bold didn't really stand out.

[boobs are normal]

I have to say I'm not a great lover of moderation., but it really can become really difficult if it is not there when really needed.
I was only really advocating it as a means of keeping things within a fairly wide track and for a limited time. 

[42CSurprise!]

I have to say I'm not a great lover of moderation...

 I couldn't help but chuckle the second time I read this... the quote from Barry Goldwater springs to mind.

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Moderation in the protection of liberty is no virtue; extremism in the defense of freedom is no vice.

Yes, you were talking about moderating of websites, not moderation as vice OR virtue...  I still couldn't help but laugh...

[boobs are normal]

I'm from UK. I vaguely know the Barry Goldwater name. Not a quote, purely coincidental.
The joke, however carries well between our cultures that are often separated by our single language. 

[42CSurprise!]

Glad you didn't take offense at the aside.  Probably many Americans don't remember Barry Goldwater either... Senator from Arizona who was the Republican candidate for President in 1964 during the Vietnam War.  He was what would be called a hawk and was defeated resoundingly.  

[JohannK]

I have to say I'm not a great lover of moderation., but it really can become really difficult if it is not there when really needed.
I was only really advocating it as a means of keeping things within a fairly wide track and for a limited time.

I agree with what you're saying.  Unfortunately there are times when moderation becomes needed, but overall it's best not to resort to it unless needed.