Different levels of comfort

[gotgyne]

I just remembered two events. The first was the sauna at my former town. It was a mixed sauna and there were no changing cubicles but a large room for both sexes. The females had no problem at all taking off their clothes including pantyhose, slip and bra under the eyes of all other visitors who undressed at the same time. And the other way round when they put on their underwear and clothes and left. I always was an avid sauna visitor but would I be comfortable enough to undress in front of others showing my bra and my compression tights? Regarding the bra I guess not, at least not yet. But my compression pantyhose would be no problem for me since I wear support and later compression pantyhose and stockings for almost five decades. It is normal for me. The only problem is that it is extremely difficult putting on compression hosiery on legs that are moist. For these occasions I always wore light support pantyhose since it is much more simple to put them on.
Second example. Some 60 miles away is a large forest. In former times the rafting of timber was common there. Nowadays there are still demonstrations of this work but only for tourists.
All of the people on the rafts get completely wet. At the end of the route most of them undress and change their clothes and underwear since they don't want to wet the interior of their cars. There are no changing rooms and they do it "open-air" being watched by all other participants and tourists. Same question. Would I be comfortable? I don't think so too.

[Justagirl💃]

Most of my life I was quite ashamed of dressing/undressing in front of others, regardless of gender. 
After several mini-strokes that have placed me in a wheelchair and reliant on assistance, I no longer have a problem at all with it. 
It's what you are accustomed to. 
Many societies have desensitized the appearance of the human body by simply putting it out there as the norm. As posted, German society and many more within EU. 
We are embarrassed because it's what we are taught. 

[Johndoe1]

Agreed and it’s a shame the US doesn’t see the body as the EU and other nations when it comes to things. They see the human body as beautiful in all forms and here it’s a human body but to be attractive it needs to be in rare form.
First time I felt off about my chest was also in a sauna at my gym. An older man made a remark and I tried to laugh it off and make a joke back but it kind of sucked at the time. As they’ve grown I’ve become as Just says, accustomed to them. But it would be nice to be in a society where others are also accustomed to it.

***RANT ON***

I think many of us feel the same way. We didn't ask to develop a chest, we didn't do things to cause it, but here we are. I hate having to publicly deny what is so obvious. I hate having to keep so covered. It can be so uncomfortable at times. I stay more covered than women do. In the summer I would love to be able to go around in a crop top like women do. It is a lot more comfortable without all that material covering my chest. It has nothing to do with gender, but all about comfort for me. i don't see clothing as gender specific anymore. I see clothing as what works for my body. Like bras. I have developed breasts and a bra helps me be comfortable. It has nothing to do with presenting as a woman. I just want my boobs to be supported, period. And if it happens to be considered 'female' so what? It fits my body. Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to run around like some teenybopper with nothing on. Quite the contrary. I have discovered there are many women's fashion that are quite male friendly, but it has a women's label in it and comes from the ladies department and that automatically somehow disqualifies me from wearing it in the eyes of society, even though it works for me and is male appropriate. That's what gets me.

***RANT OFF***

[Johndoe1]

And yes dude, you are absolutely right.  A women's tank fits me better and is more comfortable than a man's. I find it funny that I fuss with the bra straps, same as a woman when wearing a woman's tank. And I do that not because I am trying to "be a woman", but because bra straps can be a challenge sometimes. Cost of doing business as they say. If I want the comfort of support and containment of my bust, and the comfort of a tank top, and not look like some weirdo, it's what you do, man or woman. If I am with a female friend who knows I wear a bra I will adjust my straps or underband in front of them like women will do. Sometimes they will make a comment like, "yours too?" or "don't you just hate it when it does that?" There's somethings that are considered "feminine" when in fact it's just what you do when you wear a bra. Women get it. 

It's funny how women commiserate and men attack. 

[Sophie]

I know, right?!!

I was there too John! Up until a few years ago, my bra was the worst kept secret at work. As most of you know, long before I transitioned, I wore a bra and mostly women's clothing at home and work. I wore a bra daily. I didn’t flaunt it or advertise the fact that I wore one but I didn't make any effort to hide it either. Working at the Breast Care Center, our all female staff (except for myself at the time), it seemed like we were always talking about breasts and bras. It didn't take long after I started working there and the girls got to know me, I was included in the regular girl talk. 

The girls accepted me as I was. They really didn't make any special accommodations in their conversations. I was perfectly fine talking about bras and breasts. Sometimes the girl talk would get racey or even raunchy. I knew that I was accepted by them. 

It wasn’t until I transitioned that I was able to fully accept myself. That's the only acceptance besides my wife's that truly matters to me. 

♥️ you guys!

♥️Sophie♥️

[Justagirl💃]

I know, right?!!

I was there too John! Up until a few years ago, my bra was the worst kept secret at work. As most of you know, long before I transitioned, I wore a bra and mostly women's clothing at home and work. I wore a bra daily. I didn’t flaunt it or advertise the fact that I wore one but I didn't make any effort to hide it either. Working at the Breast Care Center, our all female staff (except for myself at the time), it seemed like we were always talking about breasts and bras. It didn't take long after I started working there and the girls got to know me, I was included in the regular girl talk.

The girls accepted me as I was. They really didn't make any special accommodations in their conversations. I was perfectly fine talking about bras and breasts. Sometimes the girl talk would get racey or even raunchy. I knew that I was accepted by them.

It wasn’t until I transitioned that I was able to fully accept myself. That's the only acceptance besides my wife's that truly matters to me.

♥️ you guys!

♥️Sophie♥️

Welcome back girl 💞

Oh yes, girl talk can be a bit risqué at times!
I'm included in the husbands/boyfriends conversations. Oh my my!

[taxmapper]

This is why it is it is that I wear almost exclusively "racerback" bras because I cannot stand the slip of reg. bra straps. 

[Johndoe1]

This is why it is it is that I wear almost exclusively "racerback" bras because I cannot stand the slip of reg. bra straps.

You are not alone. Many women do too for the same reason. 

[gotgyne]

This is why it is it is that I wear almost exclusively "racerback" bras because I cannot stand the slip of reg. bra straps.

I can't befriend racerbacks, so I prefer to put the strap from time to time on the shoulder again. Today I wear such a bra. It is very comfortable but the straps slip down. I was at the supermarket and a white strap was visible sometimes on my right arm, sometimes on my left. Nobody cared. The majority of people are very much preoccupied with theirselves. They never do look twice. We are the ones who look at other people with "the special eye".

[Justagirl💃]

This is why it is it is that I wear almost exclusively "racerback" bras because I cannot stand the slip of reg. bra straps.

I can't befriend racerbacks, so I prefer to put the strap from time to time on the shoulder again. Today I wear such a bra. It is very comfortable but the straps slip down. I was at the supermarket and a white strap was visible sometimes on my right arm, sometimes on my left. Nobody cared. The majority of people are very much preoccupied with theirselves. They never do look twice. We are the ones who look at other people with "the special eye".

I agree that most people are too busy with their own lives to really care, even if they happened to notice. 
The exceptions to that would be individuals that "over dress", or dress to "make a statement" rather than just normal attire. 
I tend to dress for the occasion by watching what other women wear in similar settings. 
That means most of the time I'm out shopping in a tank top and shorts. As the weather cools down I'll switch to blouses and slacks. 
The only thing I really spend much time on is my hairstyle. 

[gotgyne]

The only thing I really spend much time on is my hairstyle.

My hair on the head is the only thing I don't need to care about:). My wife cuts the rest of it every 3 months. But I must shave my beard, trim my moustache and shave my legs that the compression stockings can't slip down. And shaved legs look much better with sheer support pantyhose.

[Justagirl💃]

The only thing I really spend much time on is my hairstyle.

My hair on the head is the only thing I don't need to care about:). My wife cuts the rest of it every 3 months. But I must shave my beard, trim my moustache and shave my legs that the compression stockings can't slip down. And shaved legs look much better with sheer support pantyhose.

I'm very fortunate that I don't have much body hair. A small tuff in my cleavage that I keep shaved about once a week, and just a few scattered hairs elsewhere that I shave off at the same time. 

Now, thanks to two years of testosterone in my youth I must also shave my face daily. 
I am doing electrolysis on my face once a week and it seems to be slowly working. 

My hair was a mullet hairstyle that I have let grow now for going on a year. It's starting to grow out enough and curly enough that it requires quite a bit of care. 

[taxmapper]

When I was about 10 (mid 1970's) my mother took me to a local Farmer's Market and there I saw what was clearly a male wearing a bra and straps. 

I pointed it out and my mother quickly corrected me on that. 

for many years I was of the crowd that it was a violation of the order of the universe for such things to occur. 

That has since changed. 

[HeldUp]

I don't think, even without wearing a bra and having a chest, I'd be very comfortable "dropping trow" in public or openly. It's definitely an ingrained American "puritanical thing" that I can logically identify but be emotionally and socially subjugated by. It's definitely the projection of personal shame through the lens of perceived objectification. Stating that, however, I popped over to get coffee with my shaved legs and a tshirt over a bra and didn't feel self-conscious at all.

[Gino]

Gotgyne, it sounds like Finland or Sweden to me? Sauna is a passion with Finns and I found both countries refreshingly uninhibited.