Males Staying Males

[WPW717]

I had never heard the term until now. 

Dang, I would love to express myself as well as you have, Evolver. You’re spot on in your thoughts.
To quote…
In my case, certain factors in recent years have resulted in my libido falling to zero and my ED is absolute too. But I enjoy a permanent feeling of inner glow from embracing my inner woman, who has manifested herself physically with my boobs and otherwise with the mannerisms that I automatically show. The definition of autogynephilia that some people go by, as in 'doing things like women do' is total BS in my book. And to call it as a spectrum disorder? *cringe*…

I am exactly there too. Consistently measuring at Free T = 1 and E as unmeasurable I can still sense an inner female presence. We are what we are and I am happy to be me despite the all of the downsides of the chemotherapy. Breasts are still slowly growing.

[kbill2]

WPW717:  I initially shuddered when I saw the price of the book on Amazon, but wound up downloading a free Kindle app and rented it instead for $12.  I saw no need to have this on my bookshelf.

EVOLVER:  Rather than try to make small points that would marginally add to your comments or make minor contradictions, I'll stick with my recommendation to read the book.  The term "autogynephilia" wasn't even coined until 1989 by Ray Blanchard, a Canadian psychologist, and it is an extremely complex behavior that has in no way been fully understood.  The theory is not accepted by many.  Lawrence's book was basically an assessment of a number of autogynephiles who voluntarily and anonymously submitted their personal testimonies about how the condition had impacted their lives and choices.  The book extensively quotes from these testimonies to show various patterns that the author comments on and adds to from her own personal experience as she has gone through the complete MtF process.  While personal testimonies do not equate to hard science, the commonality of the experiences and thoughts checked virtually all of the boxes I have experienced in my personal journey to the point that I lost count of the "eureka" moments I had during the read.  I have been trying to find answers to why I am the way I am for 60 years and this theory, as supported by the testimonies in Lawrence's book, has been the most insightful and accurate by far than anything else I have found.  I wanted to share a resource that might help others who are on a similar path.

[WPW717]

I’ll work on locating the tome for that $$$

[Moobzie]

KB2:
Great response - thoughtful, honest, clear personal sharing (which is one of the purposes of this forum, no?). 

[kbill2]

Very kind of you.  Thank you

[Justagirl💃]

Autogynephillia?

Well, I'm intersex so I'm not 100% trans either. I just prefer the opposite sex assigned to me at birth, but I also have some of that equipment.
 
Why? I don't know! I was an RH factor baby and chemically induced labor a month early. I have no idea if that has anything to do with it.
 
I was raised as a little girl by my grandma until about 17. I had the body and mannerisms for it. My later forced transition into boy-mode never really fit. I couldn't learn to 'man-up'. 
 
45 years of boy-mode later, and I'm done with it.
If that means I have Autogynephillia, so be it. 

I think applying labels is dangerous regardless of the circumstances. I don't follow my birth gender and get up to prepare for my day as the woman I am (I have breasts and a uterus). 
Part of acceptance is accepting 'who we are', not searching for 'another' box to crawl into. 

Rather than looking for new or improved labels we should just all be ourselves. For some that means plaid darker colours to hide them assets and for others like myself it involves cosmetics. 💋

[Evolver]

I had never heard the term until now.

Dang, I would love to express myself as well as you have, Evolver. You’re spot on in your thoughts.
To quote…
In my case, certain factors in recent years have resulted in my libido falling to zero and my ED is absolute too. But I enjoy a permanent feeling of inner glow from embracing my inner woman, who has manifested herself physically with my boobs and otherwise with the mannerisms that I automatically show. The definition of autogynephilia that some people go by, as in 'doing things like women do' is total BS in my book. And to call it as a spectrum disorder? *cringe*…

I am exactly there too. Consistently measuring at Free T = 1 and E as unmeasurable I can still sense an inner female presence. We are what we are and I am happy to be me despite the all of the downsides of the chemotherapy. Breasts are still slowly growing.

Thanks, I sometimes worry that I use wrong words and can't communicate as effectively as I should, so I'm glad to hear that I got it right this time!

Believe it or not my T level is within normal range but towards the lower end at around the 25th percentile. Despite being in the normal range, no libido!

[Evolver]

kbill2, no probs.

I'm genuinely happy for you that you found the answers to your questions about yourself in that book. I can also understand completely your sense of relief after you reached your Eureka moment. I know exactly how it feels when the penny drops, whether it was through reading a book in your case, or me being alerted to my mannerisms or the way I was portraying myself to others in my case, followed by me finally reaching a state of permanent euphoria because of my eventual self-acceptance. 

It is my personal opinion only that the definition of autogynephilia isn't set at all. I say this as someone who hasn't read the book of course, nor is likely to for the reason that I just don't think its content is applicable to me. To be pedantic, auto can also mean what comes naturally, with no effort. A 'desire to imitate' to me, indicates an effort made to copy, like a drag queen or 'trap' or some other actor; a pretense.  

I still have a hard time accepting that autogynephilia is a spectrum disorder, as if it is a mental disability. There might be a spectrum of variations of it, but surely that other word is unnecessary. I am very proud to admit that I sit somehwere on the transgender spectrum or rainbow as I prefer to put it, probably not very far along it, but enough for me to have found my happy place. But it is not a disorder either; it doesn't need fixing. I'm as normal as the next dude. 

[kbill2]

After rereading my original post, I goofed when I called it a spectrum disorder.  I don't think that was in the book.  Apologies to all for my mistake.  I think I may have used that word as I, as many of you all, have been told by family, friends, movies, TV shows, songs, etc. that there is something wrong with us.  I'm a square peg in a world of round holes.  Again, my apology to any that I offended. 

I will just add that reading testimonies from guys who have had similar and far worse struggles than I have gave a certain sense of relief.  I've researched fetishes, paraphilias, and cross dressing over the years and none of them ever really fit.  But reading the words of the struggles, deep thoughts about the behaviors and what they may mean, descriptions of behaviors and desires that fit me to a T, etc. gave me a foothold in understanding myself that I never had previously.  Up until I found this group had gotten into discussions like this one, I had only ever discussed "me" with two people and neither of them had any appreciable comprehension about what I was dealing with. Most definitely not trying to put anybody in a box, just thrilled to know that there's a brotherhood out there that is willing to listen to at least some of the stuff I say.

'Nuff said.

[Justagirl💃]

After rereading my original post, I goofed when I called it a spectrum disorder.  I don't think that was in the book.  Apologies to all for my mistake.  I think I may have used that word as I, as many of you all, have been told by family, friends, movies, TV shows, songs, etc. that there is something wrong with us.  I'm a square peg in a world of round holes.  Again, my apology to any that I offended. 

I will just add that reading testimonies from guys who have had similar and far worse struggles than I have gave a certain sense of relief.  I've researched fetishes, paraphilias, and cross dressing over the years and none of them ever really fit.  But reading the words of the struggles, deep thoughts about the behaviors and what they may mean, descriptions of behaviors and desires that fit me to a T, etc. gave me a foothold in understanding myself that I never had previously.  Up until I found this group had gotten into discussions like this one, I had only ever discussed "me" with two people and neither of them had any appreciable comprehension about what I was dealing with. Most definitely not trying to put anybody in a box, just thrilled to know that there's a brotherhood out there that is willing to listen to at least some of the stuff I say.

'Nuff said.

No offense taken. It's just open conversation that sometimes goes on it's own tangent. 

I didn't read the book, but I found my 'happy place' already.

I just have a personal dislike to labels, but that's just my personal opinion. In a group of many, my opinions carry very little weight my friend. 

What is important is that you found something of value in it that helped you. 💞

[kbill2]

Oops, brotherhood and sisterhood.  I'm still learning.

[42CSurprise!]

...I will just add that reading testimonies from guys who have had similar and far worse struggles than I have gave a certain sense of relief.  I've researched fetishes, paraphilias, and cross dressing over the years and none of them ever really fit.  But reading the words of the struggles, deep thoughts about the behaviors and what they may mean, descriptions of behaviors and desires that fit me to a T, etc. gave me a foothold in understanding myself that I never had previously.  Up until I found this group had gotten into discussions like this one, I had only ever discussed "me" with two people and neither of them had any appreciable comprehension about what I was dealing with. Most definitely not trying to put anybody in a box, just thrilled to know that there's a brotherhood out there that is willing to listen to at least some of the stuff I say.

'Nuff said.

I started this thread but took a brief sabbatical in February and so missed this exchange.  I'm sorry I did Bill, simply because I relate completely to what you've shared... and experienced.  I encountered the term "autogynephillia" on a trans website and it resonated with me.  I've attributed what has seemed my own complex relationship to all of this as the product of sexual trauma I experienced as an infant and young boy.  That included the experience of having a silk petticoat in my crib that was used ostensibly to soothe me but ended up creating a fixation that played our with crossdressing that began when I was 12.  I also fell into the hands of a three generation family of pedophiles living on three sides of our family home who introduced me to their unique kind of play.  I ended up with confusion both about sexual orientation and gender.  Along the way I concluded I'm not homosexual, just a boy who was sexualized by other boys and men.  I've been married multiple times so I've always been drawn sexually to women... but normal intimacy proved to be too much.  I haven't actively crossdressed during my life, but I've always had an affection for brassieres... an affection that prepared me well for the development of breasts as I got older, as well as for conversations with men on this site who enjoy talking about brassieres.  In truth, I'm rather thrilled by my breasts and love putting on a brassiere... not so much for the support so many here talk about but because it feels right to both have breasts and to wear a brassiere.  There is definitely an erotic dimension to the experience, despite the fact my libido is much diminished as testosterone abandons my body and gives estrogen her way.

There is no doubt that gynecomastia is a different beast and likely most men here are not captured by the erotic dimension of this longing to be within a woman's body.  I find myself torn between being a pre-op transsexual and a lesbian.  That may be the best solution to my confusion about gender and sexual orientation.  I can be a little of everything... except a vanilla heterosexual male.

As an aside, I intended to write today about somethings I've been reading at a site devoted to men who WANT breasts, many of whom wish to remain male.  Many are using herbal supplements to achieve their goal.  I realized as I read a list of recommended supplements that I'm taking FIVE of them... saw palmetto, pygeum, pumpkin seed, nettle root and reishi mushrooms.  I've been taking them because they are recommended for men dealing with prostate issues.  Suddenly, I wonder whether my rather voluptuous breasts may have grown because of these herbs, some of which I've taken for years.  Mmmmm.  I don't know if that is true but here I am filling the cups of my 42C brassiere.  I'm stacked!  

Thanks for your contribution Bill.  We may be in the minority but as noted, this is a place where acceptance is paramount for all of us.  We don't have to accept anyone else's definition of who WE are, but hopefully we'll respect others who have a different perspective of who THEY are.