New laws coming

[taxmapper]

having studied a bit of philosophy, the primary observation that I have made is that most folks either want an echo chamber or shouting match.  There is no discourse anymore, and when applying labels because it "fits" I am cautious these days given variations of things that put me on this very web site that 10 years ago I wouldn't be caught dead on. 

Having COVID discussion I avoid them for this very reason. some are completely sold on the jab, others 100% opposed.   But rather than discuss, were fighting over it. 

[Justagirl💃]

Exactly the same reason I bid farewell to my friends on another site I frequent this morning. 

Opinions get voiced (I am guilty of this as well), but we fail to understand that differing opinions is okay. We all own our own opinions and none of them can be wrong if they are our own. 

The medical facility I attend has their opinions, and they are absolutely not wrong in believing what they believe rather I am just under the wrong care and possibly in the wrong state. 

It's really not about who is right or wrong, but rather what's compatible. I am attending a facility in a state that is not compatible with my medical conditions and nothing is holding me here other than advancing up on a waiting list for handicapped housing in Oregon. 

Hopefully the day-centre doesn't have to deal with an individual built like myself in the future because they do have rather strong opinions against it. It's an inconvenience for them, and that's okay. It's who they are. 

[42CSurprise!]

It's tiresome when someone gets labelled "nazi", or "____-phobe" when expressing a different opinion.

Those who are upset over the results of the past election or divergent opinions defaulted right back to calling everyone they disagree with names.  Very stupid, tedious, rude, and wrong.  Gino and Bluetoo were stating the obvious. 42's response shows why.  Try a bit more courtesy.

I'd be more inclined to respect this comment if you hadn't gone on a diatribe of your own at the beginning of this thread.  I would welcome a less combative engagement with you but you make it difficult.  (My guess is you've had too many years listening to Rush Limbaugh to engage in civil conversation.)

Everyone on this thread has had experience with breasts but not in the same way.  Certainly Birdie's is unlike any of us.  I'm interested in hearing her concerns and supporting her in living the best life she can that doesn't require her to be less than who she is... even though that makes some people uncomfortable.  Birdie isn't some teenager unhappy at home who thinks changing her gender is the solution to her problems and she isn't a man wishing to molest girls in the women's restroom.  If the numbers Birdie quotes are accurate, 1 in every 1,500 people has genitalia that don't fit perfectly one of the two boxes folks on the right want to keep people in.  We don't know who they are because they're likely hiding the fact they are different... probably much the way you do with regard to your breasts.  I don't flaunt my breasts either but I'm happy to be with men willing to acknowledge reality and play with it a bit.  I accept the fact that elevated estrogen that allows these breasts to be present and diminished testosterone puts me closer to the feminine end of the gender continuum than the masculine.  I still cheer for my team but I also love shopping for a flattering brassiere.

Finally, I'm not upset about the election.  America has expressed its preference.  As a student of history I'm watching with great interest as this unfolds.  I've said for a very long time that great empires don't last forever.  America is no different.  What I see happening in this country for the last fifty years doesn't inspire confidence in me... beyond the issues that motivated citizens to support Donald Trump, I see amazing violence, addiction and despair.  Our system is not working very well for the average American and I honestly don't believe anything the President is doing will address fundamental problems.  A country that has almost 800 military bases around the world is more interested in hegemony than in the welfare of its citizens.  The billionaires surrounding Trump at the inauguration are smiling and it appears you feel you've won a great victory as well.  We'll see who is smiling when the dust settles.

[42CSurprise!]

I wish you well Birdie in finding a home that will allow you to fully be who you are.  Yes, who you are is a thorn in the side of those who want simple answers to complex questions.  But you've lived with this your whole life and have come to peace within yourself.  That is wonderful.  You've mentioned that your politics tend to lean toward the right so eastern Oregon should be perfect for you.  Of course, you'll be frustrated as others in the region are by the fact politics in the state is really controlled by the more liberal and populous western part of the state.  You might want to be careful about joining those who wish to break free of Oregon to join Idaho because Idaho may be going in the same direction Texas has gone.  Politics is in flux.  We definitely live in interesting times... 危机与机会并存/机遇与挑战并存 (...which means "opportunity accompanies crisis/challenge")

We're with you my friend wherever you land.  I hope it is soon.  

[WPW717]

42 C,
I’m currently reading a book by Victor David Hansen. It’s called.” The end of everything” And it’s subtitle, how wars descend into annihilation. It’s an interesting read and has relevance to your previous remarks. I think you’re expressing an extremely subtle but observable reality.

[42CSurprise!]

42 C,
I’m currently reading a book by Victor David Hansen. It’s called.” The end of everything” And it’s subtitle, how wars descend into annihilation. It’s an interesting read and has relevance to your previous remarks. I think you’re expressing an extremely subtle but observable reality.

What is happening in Ukraine has renewed my interest in history and listening to Jeffery Sacks who has opened my eyes to American foreign policy.  I've also taken a deep dive into what is happening in China through websites not influenced by American attempts to demonize the country.  This certainly is not the place to unpack these matters but it is safe to say that we really don't know where this is going to lead... in the way farmers who supported Donald Trump are discovering when their farm workers are removed from the country.  More will be revealed.  China has had multiple dynasties that lasted over four hundred years during its 2,500 year history.  We're not yet 250 years beyond the Declaration of Independence.  There are no guarantees in the world.
 

[taxmapper]

What frustrates me no end is that this whole issue is a contemporary prose established because someone decided it had to be.  Trans-sexuality, hermaphroditism, DSD, intersex has been recognized for thousands of years with various implications. But in most part accepted as a reality rather than our current pomp and circumstance of dare I say it Bread and Circuses of the day. 


In times past this would have essencially been a physical no-sequitur, but there would have been established legal aspects to it. 

[Justagirl💃]

In reality, AMAB with breasts or AMAB with breasts and uterus isn't much different.
Both fit outside of the "norm" according to this modern society making everything a "political talking point."

The only reason why any one of us hid (or hide) is simply because society refuses to accept what it hasn't learned to understand. 

Government had decided to make things their business, and BOTH sides are guilty of it. 

[Gino]

Recently around the dinner table the topic came up of government interference and one of the parties at the table has a F to M son who is leaving the U.S and going to Europe because he is pissed that he may have to show his birth certificate or driver's license showing his sex at birth at some point to a stranger. Note that he is fully transitioned, owns a home, has a good job, and is a great person whose family adores him and will miss him dearly. 

In all my years on Earth I'm guessing that maybe a dozen times I've been asked to show my driver's license and only once my birth certificate and I REALLY do not think anyone who viewed my license scrutinized it beyond my name and address. So this is worth leaving a life behind to go to another country with a different language, culture and customs that you have no assurance that the new homeland will not demand your birth sex to be recorded on official documents there at some point in the future? 

I'm puzzled why one letter of the alphabet and perceived "privacy" due to it requires such a huge knee jerk reaction to give up your country, lifestyle, home, job and family?  

Damn, I get that "The pen is mightier than the sword" but this single letter having that much power and influence on a person seems (IMO) just a senseless disruption to your life. 

Early in my professional career a wise manager once asked me if an issue I had was worth using up a "silver bullet" to fight over, and that one statement gave me a life long pause before digging in my heels and using my limited supply of silver bullets. IMO, this is not one of those occasions. 

[Gino]

"I'd be more inclined to respect this comment if you hadn't gone on a diatribe of your own at the beginning of this thread"

Honestly I read Moobsie's post as statement of fact, with a few colorful and IMO humorous embellishments :-)

[Justagirl💃]

Gino said, "In all my years on Earth I'm guessing that maybe a dozen times I've been asked to show my driver's license and only once my birth certificate."

This recently happened to me as I was trying to change apartment buildings with the same parent company. They manager asked for my birth certificate (proof of citizenship), and my drivers license. She immediately noticed that gender did not match in my documents (I petitioned to have my BC amended by presenting medical records and affidavits however Texas will not honour those changes.
She came up with excuses on why I was declined and escorted me out. I apparently was not a "good fit."

Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Justagirl💃]

As I was writing my last post one of the apartment renters association members stopped me in the lobby to ask if I was still getting "bullied" by other residents. 

I explained that I still get nasty notes dropped at my door and just yesterday one neighbour told me, "you need to cut off all that hair", so yes it continues. I am harassed for both my religious beliefs and assumed political beliefs. 

She apoligised on behalf of the renters association, but we both agreed that everyone has their opinion. Other than that, if no vandalism or violence occurs there is little that can be done. 

We both agreed that I am just in the wrong place. Texas really isn't ready to accept people like me. Even though it's a biological issue and had little to do with choice. 

[Gino]

Birdie, I never said that there are not instances where people are bullied for what they are or what others perceive, and I sympathize with those who are affected by the narrow minded morons in the World. 

The main thrust of my post is not that discrimination cannot occur as it obviously does, but that uprooting one's family due to an as yet unrealized but perceived issue is puzzling and IMO an unnecessarily strong knee jerk reaction to a problem that has not happened yet. 

Well maybe that's not entirely correct, the young man's family I mentioned is certainly distraught over the prospect of losing him. It makes no sense to me. 

[Justagirl💃]

Correct, yet if happens everyday. 

[42CSurprise!]

...The main thrust of my post is not that discrimination cannot occur as it obviously does, but that uprooting one's family due to an as yet unrealized but perceived issue is puzzling and IMO an unnecessarily strong knee jerk reaction to a problem that has not happened yet.

Well maybe that's not entirely correct, the young man's family I mentioned is certainly distraught over the prospect of losing him. It makes no sense to me.

I can only guess Gino that you are not a member of one of the groups that has been scapegoated in your home country.  At the moment the focus in conservative regions of the U.S. is on gender non-conforming folks.  Perhaps you remember that upon taking control of Germany Hitler's first choice for prosecution was gays.  Very few people objected to that and we know where that led.  What Birdie reports is happening in different ways, prompted by authorities who assert control.  It has been happening to women in Texas wishing to go out of state to secure an abortion.  Medical records are being reviewed to permit Texas to control women who might wish to leave the state of have an abortion.  Citizens in Texas have been given the right to sue friends, neighbors and family members they believe have violated laws in place to restrict abortion.

We are witnessing some rather bizarre things at the moment and where this attempt by the President to assert control over everything will lead we have no idea.  I imagine most of his supporters are happy, though from what I'm watching not everyone is happy when their elected representative returns to his district to explain actions over which no one in Congress is given a say.  This is perhaps the most profound test this country has experienced over whether our institutions will hold.  I wish us well.  I'm too old to leave the country but I'm well aware a great many Americans have done so... including friends of mine.