WEIRD hormone results! What DO they mean!

[tmb82]

I have just rung the doc for some hormone results. The doctor is away on holiday, but just to tide things over the receptionist said I have HIGH oestradiol and HIGH testosterone levels. I have searched this forum and only found explanations of high oestradiol with low testosterone. I was wondering if anyone could set me off on the right tracks about what could be wrong in a case like this...

(Also I am now very anxious because I have already had the gyne removed surgically  two weeks ago and very scared that the gyne is gonna come right back with this sort of hormaone imbalance  hanging around! - Aaaaaaargh

[hypo]

High testosterone and high estradiol is typically seen in cases of steroid abuse, although of course it is possible that other factors may cause this situation.

If the estradiol is high this could cause gynecomastia to re-develop.  

This perfectly illustrates what I have been saying all along on this website.  That endocrinology investiagtions are important and should really come prior to sugery and prior to seeing a plastic surgeon.

If the estradiol is truly high then your endocrinologist should be able to prescribe you medication NOW to lower this level, whether that is Andractim, Tamoxifen, Arimidex or something like DIM and zinc.

If you get a copy of your results along with the lab reference ranges and post them here I can you further from a patients perspective.

[rcbrown23]

I agree with hypo...but have a question of my own regarging the subject.

How fast can the gyne grow back?? I mean, I'm sure it's hard to say...but if the imbalance is bad enough, could the gyne grow back in two weeks time? or does he have a little time to get the hormone problem resolved before the gyne could grow again?

[tmb82]

thanks - I will post the exact results when I see the doctor on wednesday. (its not steroid abuse in my case at any rate).

Thanks for now...

Tim

[hypo]

If gland is left it can be acted upon by the same hormones that caused it to develop in the first place.

In terms of the time frame that gynecomastia can develop or re-develop, it depends upon the individual and their hormonal health.

It isn't a question with a definitive answer.

tmb82 quote
its not steroid abuse in my case at any rate
unquote

It wouldn't matter if it was, I am anti steroid abuse because of the problems it causes but I am not against anyone because they used to do it.

There are all manner of situations that could allow for high testosterone and high estradiol though so I am not questioning what you say for a minute.

Good luck with your appointment.

 

[johnri60626]

High Testosterone and estrogen are also typical of teens. Teenagers are notorious for raging hormones.

The level of Testoerone to estrogen is more important. If the Estrogen is the dominant hormone, at any hormone level, I would expect to see gyne, so suppressing the estrogen would probably be the next move, if this is what is happening.

High testosterone and high estradiol is typically seen in cases of steroid abuse, although of course it is possible that other factors may cause this situation.

If the estradiol is high this could cause gynecomastia to re-develop.  

This perfectly illustrates what I have been saying all along on this website.  That endocrinology investiagtions are important and should really come prior to sugery and prior to seeing a plastic surgeon.

If the estradiol is truly high then your endocrinologist should be able to prescribe you medication NOW to lower this level, whether that is Andractim, Tamoxifen, Arimidex or something like DIM and zinc.

If you get a copy of your results along with the lab reference ranges and post them here I can you further from a patients perspective.

[hypo]

Estradiol acts against the actions of testosterone in the male endocrine system;

It has a significant negative feedback on the hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular-axis (HPTA), when seen at the same molecular weight it has 200 times greater power at suppressing the HPTA than testosterone.  High normal estradiol results in lower emission of GnRH, LH, lowered testicular leydig cell action and lowered testosterone levels.  

But that is only half the picture, estradiol also blocks androgen receptor sites and when estradiol is high or even high normal this can prevent much of an individuals testosterone in serum exerting any affect at a cellular level and result in a lowered free/bioavailable fraction of testosterone.

A healthy testosterone to estradiol ratio in young men is as much as 50-1.  The poorer the ratio the more likely it is for gynecomastia to develop.

Gynecomastia can and often does develop when a man has high normal testosterone and high normal estradiol.

So estrogen or rather estradiol as that is most often what we are referring to, does not have to become the dominant hormone for gynecomastia to develop, at least not in terms of pathology blood levels.

It depends on what your definition of dominant is and what you mean by the level of testosterone to estrogen.  If you mean dominant and level of testosterone to estrogen in terms of the ratio between the two, then I agree with you, if you do not mean that I probably do not.  But you would have to explain you’re thinking/understanding further.  

The above is before any other factors are taken into account which can do lead to the development of gynecomastia such as poor liver function, high SHBG, high prolactin, high cellular/genetic response to estrogens in the breast tissue, androgen receptor resistance, hyperthyroidism etc

[johnri60626]

For our purposes, it is easier for most folks to understand the estrogen as being dominant.

remeber, I am hypothyroid too, and am well aware of hormone ratios, but the general public really isn't, so it's a lot easier to explain things on a level folks understand, rathar than explaining it and watching their eyes glaze over.

[hypo]

But the way you say it, people will go away and think that there hormones are fine if they have a high testosterone level and estradiol doesn't appear as the dominant hormone at all.

When in reality they will be developing gynecomastia.

I don't think dumbing down helps if it gives a false impression of the facts and I think people can always pick out the bit that they need to know from most information anyway.

Just a different take on what you are saying, but I understand your logic.

P.S

I do not have hypothyroidism, I have hypogonadism,  the hormones involved are different.

[tmb82]

Hi,

Hypo really kindly offered to interpret my hormone results a few threads back so here I am with them! Thanks Hypo.

Unfortunately the lab only sent back the oestradiol result and not the exact testosterone result.


Results: Oestradiol 182 (normal lab range <150)
             Testosterone 'high'

I realise from what you have said that that makes it fairly useless because its the ratio you are interested in, so whilst a  real interpretation might be impossible there might be something you can help me with all the same. The doctor told me for the moment not to worry, as a high testosterone and oestradiol (whatever the figures) is most likely just due to the finasteride I was taking (and am not anymore). Just to put my mind at rest (or not), does that story fit? I thought I had read that finasteride caused low testosterone levels.

If you agree that fits, then perhaps I can relax, and expect everything to settle down over the next month or so now that I have stopped (permanently) taking finasteride. What do you think?

And thanks again

Tim

[pumpseeker]

hey hypo  Are you a Doctor(MD)

Why do you try to sound like one ?

How come you did not become a Doctor(were you too poor or stupid)?

Do you have any intials after your name?

Let the real doctors answer the Endo questios(for everyones sake)

PS -
Do you actually understand all the info that you cut and paste from the REAL DOCTORS Journal? Maybe thats why you cant explain it to people in a way where the average person can understand it.

[rcbrown23]

Hey Pump, are you an @sshole?

You sure sound like one.

Hypo has ALWAYS stated that he is not a Doctor and constantly encourages people to go see real professionals. His info is for reference only and he lets everyone know that. If you don't like it, then don't read it.


         -Brown

[rcbrown23]

Post that same comment in a new thread and you'll get responses. The results are on a different scale than mine, so I don't know what to make of it.